I thought I read somewhere that Canon has discontinued production of their CLI-8
and PGI-5 ink cartridges. If that's so, where are people going to get carts for
the millions of printers and multi-function machines out there that use these 2
carts ??? Are they so idiotic, that just because someone figured out a way to
reset the chips, that they are going to punish the public by discontinuing that
series of carts ???

I just started refilling mine and reset them using the German Redsetter. It
works great, and I think that the colors are just as good or maybe even better.
Has anyone else heard about this stupid move by Canon ????


RON
========================================================
Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:14:30 +0000, Ron in NY wrote:

> I thought I read somewhere that Canon has discontinued production of their CLI-8
> and PGI-5 ink cartridges. If that's so, where are people going to get carts for
> the millions of printers and multi-function machines out there that use these 2
> carts ??? Are they so idiotic, that just because someone figured out a way to
> reset the chips, that they are going to punish the public by discontinuing that
> series of carts ???


What you heard is nonsense. It probably is illegal.
>
> I just started refilling mine and reset them using the German Redsetter. It
> works great, and I think that the colors are just as good or maybe even better.
> Has anyone else heard about this stupid move by Canon ????
>
>
> RON
> ========================================================
> Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

I haven't read anything of this nature, but that doesn't mean you
haven't read it somewhere (it would be interesting to know where).

Without knowing otherwise, it is unusual for an inkjet printer
manufacturer to decide to stop production of ink cartridges, for a
number of reasons:

1) they make almost all their profits on ink
2) it stokes the fire for reasons for 3rd party ink products, as it
would leave a lot of printers orphaned (and angry customers)
3) it creates an opening for 3rd party ink manufacturers to capture a
market share they'd rather protect for themselves

Unlike laser printer toner cartridges, which are very costly to make and
continue to manufacture, when the demand dies down considerably, inkjet
cartridge are relatively simple and relatively inexpensive injection
molding and can be stockpiled empty and filled as needed.

Not suggesting Canon can;'t make a bad business decision, just that it
would be a little unusual in the inkjet market.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Ron in NY wrote:
> I thought I read somewhere that Canon has discontinued production of their CLI-8
> and PGI-5 ink cartridges. If that's so, where are people going to get carts for
> the millions of printers and multi-function machines out there that use these 2
> carts ??? Are they so idiotic, that just because someone figured out a way to
> reset the chips, that they are going to punish the public by discontinuing that
> series of carts ???
>
> I just started refilling mine and reset them using the German Redsetter. It
> works great, and I think that the colors are just as good or maybe even better.
> Has anyone else heard about this stupid move by Canon ????
>
>
> RON
> ========================================================
> Remove the ZZZ from my E-mail address to send me E-mail.

On Jan 18, 10:58*pm, Arthur Entlich <e-printerh...@mvps.org> wrote:
> I haven't read anything of this nature, but that doesn't mean you
> haven't read it somewhere (it would be interesting to know where).
>
> Without knowing otherwise, it is unusual for an inkjet printer
> manufacturer to decide to stop production of ink cartridges, for a
> number of reasons:
>
> 1) they make almost all their profits on ink
> 2) it stokes the fire for reasons for 3rd party ink products, as it
> would leave a lot of printers orphaned (and angry customers)
> 3) it creates an opening for 3rd party ink manufacturers to capture a
> market share they'd rather protect for themselves

I suspect the parent read that Canon is discontinuing printers that
use the PGI-5 and CLI-8 cartridges. This is true. I'm sure there are
reasons for it, here are my guesses

1) There are chip resetters and aftermarket chips in full production
2) CD printing in the US

The major difference in the new cartridge line is the fact that they
offer European cartridges, rather than just the Japanese/everyone else
cartridges. It's trivial to enable CD printing in the states, and
near as I'm aware the ONLY reason they don't is because of a license
issue with Phillips. We get around it by setting our printers to
another market, usually European, anything but (1) Japanese because
you need the Japanese cartridges and there is no real way to select
English on the Japanese mode AIOs. It seems that actually "trying" to
discourage this feature is in their best interest presuming they still
don't want to offer this feature in this market.

I doubt that Canon would flat out discontinue the line. In
perspective this line is only about 2 years old.

The likely reason for the separate European cartridge is because the EU
is requiring all printer cartridges be refillable as part of a green
initiative. If the cartridges worked in all model (but Japanese) people
could order the refillable EU cartridges anywhere in the world and use
them. HP also "regionalized" their cartridges a while back such that
Europe was separated. The official word was it was to prevent gray
market sales.

I'm not sure what Epson is up to. My hope is with new attitudes
entering the White House, and a greener attitude in government, North
America will shortly come to similar conclusions.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

IntergalacticExpandingPanda wrote:
> On Jan 18, 10:58 pm, Arthur Entlich <e-printerh...@mvps.org> wrote:
>> I haven't read anything of this nature, but that doesn't mean you
>> haven't read it somewhere (it would be interesting to know where).
>>
>> Without knowing otherwise, it is unusual for an inkjet printer
>> manufacturer to decide to stop production of ink cartridges, for a
>> number of reasons:
>>
>> 1) they make almost all their profits on ink
>> 2) it stokes the fire for reasons for 3rd party ink products, as it
>> would leave a lot of printers orphaned (and angry customers)
>> 3) it creates an opening for 3rd party ink manufacturers to capture a
>> market share they'd rather protect for themselves
>
> I suspect the parent read that Canon is discontinuing printers that
> use the PGI-5 and CLI-8 cartridges. This is true. I'm sure there are
> reasons for it, here are my guesses
>
> 1) There are chip resetters and aftermarket chips in full production
> 2) CD printing in the US
>
> The major difference in the new cartridge line is the fact that they
> offer European cartridges, rather than just the Japanese/everyone else
> cartridges. It's trivial to enable CD printing in the states, and
> near as I'm aware the ONLY reason they don't is because of a license
> issue with Phillips. We get around it by setting our printers to
> another market, usually European, anything but (1) Japanese because
> you need the Japanese cartridges and there is no real way to select
> English on the Japanese mode AIOs. It seems that actually "trying" to
> discourage this feature is in their best interest presuming they still
> don't want to offer this feature in this market.
>
> I doubt that Canon would flat out discontinue the line. In
> perspective this line is only about 2 years old.

Arthur Entlich wrote:
> The likely reason for the separate European cartridge is because the EU
> is requiring all printer cartridges be refillable as part of a green
> initiative.

I haven't heard anything about it - could you please point me to a source?

> If the cartridges worked in all model (but Japanese) people
> could order the refillable EU cartridges anywhere in the world and use
> them. HP also "regionalized" their cartridges a while back such that
> Europe was separated. The official word was it was to prevent gray
> market sales.

It was because the HP363 was £7 here and $7 on your side of the lake -
so europeans would just buy loads of cartridges from the USA. They
wanted different prices on different markets. I don't know the
Chinese/Asian market, but I suspect that the prices were even lower than
in the US. I'm not sure if there are any legal grounds to demand
refillable carts in the EU.

> I'm not sure what Epson is up to. My hope is with new attitudes
> entering the White House, and a greener attitude in government, North
> America will shortly come to similar conclusions.

Everyone should. Then people will start buying expensive printers.
But... hang on... won't they be more willing to do a bit of research
before ordering expensive printer? Now it's probably just a situation of
grabbing first printer on the shelf (after all the printer costs about
as much money as tank of diesel in my car), or picking up the one in
most colorful packaging.

--
Jerry1111

Hi Jerry,

I have been trying to nail down the exact legislation, so far without
success. I found a lot of preliminary discussion and some of the group
work, but not the finalized EU rulings.

It appears to be part of the EU Waste and Recycling Strategy, and the
work was started a number of years ago. I recall seeing the
announcements back several years ago which indicated the actual rulings
would be going into effect in 2008 or 2009.

I'll continue trying to find the actual wording, and if anyone else
finds it in the meantime, please post.

Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Jerry1111 wrote:
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>> The likely reason for the separate European cartridge is because the
>> EU is requiring all printer cartridges be refillable as part of a
>> green initiative.
>
> I haven't heard anything about it - could you please point me to a source?
>
>> If the cartridges worked in all model (but Japanese) people could
>> order the refillable EU cartridges anywhere in the world and use
>> them. HP also "regionalized" their cartridges a while back such that
>> Europe was separated. The official word was it was to prevent gray
>> market sales.
>
> It was because the HP363 was £7 here and $7 on your side of the lake -
> so europeans would just buy loads of cartridges from the USA. They
> wanted different prices on different markets. I don't know the
> Chinese/Asian market, but I suspect that the prices were even lower than
> in the US. I'm not sure if there are any legal grounds to demand
> refillable carts in the EU.
>
>> I'm not sure what Epson is up to. My hope is with new attitudes
>> entering the White House, and a greener attitude in government, North
>> America will shortly come to similar conclusions.
>
> Everyone should. Then people will start buying expensive printers.
> But... hang on... won't they be more willing to do a bit of research
> before ordering expensive printer? Now it's probably just a situation of
> grabbing first printer on the shelf (after all the printer costs about
> as much money as tank of diesel in my car), or picking up the one in
> most colorful packaging.
>

Arthur Entlich wrote:
> Hi Jerry,
>
> I have been trying to nail down the exact legislation, so far without
> success. I found a lot of preliminary discussion and some of the group
> work, but not the finalized EU rulings.

Knowing how things are usually going in Brussels, I'd expect a piece of
legislation which will oblige _manufacturers_ to recycle their carts. In
other words: you can return empty cart to the shop and the mfg will do
something with it (instead of thowing it to the landfill). I wouldn't
expect any legislation to support refilling.

> It appears to be part of the EU Waste and Recycling Strategy, and the
> work was started a number of years ago. I recall seeing the
> announcements back several years ago which indicated the actual rulings
> would be going into effect in 2008 or 2009.

I'm not aware of anything. We'll see.

> I'll continue trying to find the actual wording, and if anyone else
> finds it in the meantime, please post.

Will do.

Best Regards,

Jerry1111

> Art
>
>
> If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
> I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:
>
> http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/
>
> Jerry1111 wrote:
>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>> The likely reason for the separate European cartridge is because the
>>> EU is requiring all printer cartridges be refillable as part of a
>>> green initiative.
>>
>> I haven't heard anything about it - could you please point me to a
>> source?
>>
>>> If the cartridges worked in all model (but Japanese) people could
>>> order the refillable EU cartridges anywhere in the world and use
>>> them. HP also "regionalized" their cartridges a while back such that
>>> Europe was separated. The official word was it was to prevent gray
>>> market sales.
>>
>> It was because the HP363 was £7 here and $7 on your side of the lake -
>> so europeans would just buy loads of cartridges from the USA. They
>> wanted different prices on different markets. I don't know the
>> Chinese/Asian market, but I suspect that the prices were even lower
>> than in the US. I'm not sure if there are any legal grounds to demand
>> refillable carts in the EU.
>>
>>> I'm not sure what Epson is up to. My hope is with new attitudes
>>> entering the White House, and a greener attitude in government, North
>>> America will shortly come to similar conclusions.
>>
>> Everyone should. Then people will start buying expensive printers.
>> But... hang on... won't they be more willing to do a bit of research
>> before ordering expensive printer? Now it's probably just a situation
>> of grabbing first printer on the shelf (after all the printer costs
>> about as much money as tank of diesel in my car), or picking up the
>> one in most colorful packaging.
>>


--
Jerry1111

On Jan 21, 3:12*pm, measekite <inkysti...@oem.com> wrote:

> That would be stupid. *The mfg spend a great deal of time, effort and
> money to engineer the best printers they can at each price point so why
> would they create a weak link so people can degrade them and make them
> perform at a point that is not desirable. *

If for example they create a product line that wasn't successful in
the marketplace, and it cost too much money to continue to support it,
by all means let the 3rd parties take care of it.

And it's a matter of law, or it should be. The manufacturers
shouldn't hold a monopoly on consumables. Even the current
aftermarket solutions, even if they are not as archival, cost 90% less
than OEM or for the pigmented ink solutions about 75% less than OEM.
I'm doing my small part to help prevent excess waste which includes
reusing my cartridges and using a CISS.

On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:23:20 -0800, IntergalacticExpandingPanda wrote:

> On Jan 21, 3:12Â*pm, measekite <inkysti...@oem.com> wrote:
>
>> That would be stupid. Â*The mfg spend a great deal of time, effort and
>> money to engineer the best printers they can at each price point so why
>> would they create a weak link so people can degrade them and make them
>> perform at a point that is not desirable. Â*
>
> If for example they create a product line that wasn't successful in
> the marketplace, and it cost too much money to continue to support it,
> by all means let the 3rd parties take care of it.


That is the stupidest thing I ever heard of. A customer who purchased a
printer has the right and the mfg has the obligation to provide supplies
for what he bought. If they do not want to do that then they need to
refund the money and take the equipment back and not palm their customer
off to the riff raff garbage in the industry.



>
> And it's a matter of law, or it should be. The manufacturers shouldn't
> hold a monopoly on consumables. Even the current aftermarket solutions,
> even if they are not as archival, cost 90% less than OEM or for the
> pigmented ink solutions about 75% less than OEM. I'm doing my small part
> to help prevent excess waste which includes reusing my cartridges and
> using a CISS.