I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
RAM and motherboard too. I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
E6400 are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have
to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?

You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.

I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
I still need full PATA support.

Yousuf Khan

"Yousuf Khan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44fa3d85$(E-Mail Removed)...
>I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
>system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
>connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
>RAM and motherboard too. I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
>probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
>that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or E6400
>are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have to choose
>a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775 motherboards will work
>with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model numbers to figure it out:
>some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945 chipsets will work with it, while
>others won't. Even some motherboards have revisions that will or won't
>work, and they don't even bother to change the model naming on it! It's an
>absolute mess! Is there a list of compatible motherboards (and revisions)
>that will work with C2D?
>
> You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any CPU,
> just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.
>
> I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
> some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in favour
> of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime I still
> need full PATA support.
>
> Yousuf Khan

Wow, sounds like buying for Intel Core 2 Duo is somewhat of a pain ATM. But
I"m sure once they are out there for a bit longer it'll be easier.. I had
heard at one point that Intel's (only real choice unless you're willing to
deal with VIA) chipsets would only support 1 PATA connector for this CPU,
I'm not sure that this is universally true or not ATM, but you might be out
of luck as far as that goes. Here are some motherboard reviews I found on
Anandtech though, hopefully they'll help you out...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797 (feeding the beast)
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2822 (Asus P5B)
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2789 (Abit AB9 Pro)

That's about all I could find, I know how you feel about Intel/AMD. I've
been using AMD products for the past 8 years my self quiet happily, but this
time around it looks like Intel has a real winner for the time being.

Carlo

Carlo Razzeto wrote:
> Wow, sounds like buying for Intel Core 2 Duo is somewhat of a pain ATM. But
> I"m sure once they are out there for a bit longer it'll be easier.. I had
> heard at one point that Intel's (only real choice unless you're willing to
> deal with VIA) chipsets would only support 1 PATA connector for this CPU,
> I'm not sure that this is universally true or not ATM, but you might be out
> of luck as far as that goes. Here are some motherboard reviews I found on
> Anandtech though, hopefully they'll help you out...

The reason they backported C2D support into the 945 chipset seems to be
because it has full PATA support. Neither the 965 and 975 have any. In
fact for PATA support, mobo mfgs are having to install an external chip
to give that one channel of support! The disadvantage of 945 chipset is
that it only goes upto DDR2-667 support, rather than DDR2-800.

> That's about all I could find, I know how you feel about Intel/AMD. I've
> been using AMD products for the past 8 years my self quiet happily, but this
> time around it looks like Intel has a real winner for the time being.

Except now it seems like AMD has the more robust platform. The choice
now is either you buy it for the CPU alone, or you buy it for the whole
platform.

Yousuf Khan

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:27:17 -0400, Yousuf Khan <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
>system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
>connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
>RAM and motherboard too.

Check out the P/S too - most recent systems will not work with a P/S from
the Athlon XP era. You need ~20A on +12V and more for a high powered video
system... and with the 24-pin dual +12V, you don't want tight limiting on
the current to either side.

> I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
>probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
>that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
>E6400 are really available now, and nothing else.

NewEgg has E6600 & E6700 in stock.

BTW there are umm, stories floating around that Dell has sucked the
Athlon64 channel drier than a stick... and that distributors & smaller OEMs
are very ****ed about this. Could be FUD I suppose but we'll see how
things play out.

> But then if you have
>to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
>motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
>numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
>chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
>have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
>change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
>compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?

I wouldn't go so far as to say you're "screwed"... just have to be careful.
Again, NewEgg lists mbrds by Intel CPU category.

>You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
>CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.

Hmmm, there are a few AMD64 mbrds out there which are real turkeys -
apparently MSI's entire AM2 K9N series are subject to problems and need a
capacitor changed. AM2, in general, has had some new problems to do with
AMD Away: people think they're systems are shutting down spontaneously but
they're actually going into "AMD Away" mode umm, spontaneously... and they
won't come out without a CMOS clear. Apparently this one is fixable by
BIOS update but it's taken a bit of time.

Another problem with AM2, is getting a mbrd/memory combo to run at
PC2-6400: most DIMMs are specing 2.0V or more and there are a bunch of
mbrds out there which are limited to 1.9(5)V.

>I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
>some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
>favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
>I still need full PATA support.

Yeah, I think the chipset mfrs jumped the gun on this one - most people
want two DVD drives (ROM & R/RW) and on separate IDE channels. The SATA
DVD drives are not coming fast enough and have also had chipset
compatibilty problems. nVidia's nForce 500 series for AM2 has only one
PATA channel, which I guess I could live with but the nForce 500 series for
Intel CPUs, which are compatible with C2D, has two PATA channels - see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131032. Of course
there's always the SATA-PATA converters which seem to work OK with many
drives, even some DVDs.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 02:22:16 -0400, Yousuf Khan <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Carlo Razzeto wrote:
>> Wow, sounds like buying for Intel Core 2 Duo is somewhat of a pain ATM. But
>> I"m sure once they are out there for a bit longer it'll be easier.. I had
>> heard at one point that Intel's (only real choice unless you're willing to
>> deal with VIA) chipsets would only support 1 PATA connector for this CPU,
>> I'm not sure that this is universally true or not ATM, but you might be out
>> of luck as far as that goes. Here are some motherboard reviews I found on
>> Anandtech though, hopefully they'll help you out...
>
>The reason they backported C2D support into the 945 chipset seems to be
>because it has full PATA support. Neither the 965 and 975 have any. In
>fact for PATA support, mobo mfgs are having to install an external chip
>to give that one channel of support! The disadvantage of 945 chipset is
>that it only goes upto DDR2-667 support, rather than DDR2-800.
>
>> That's about all I could find, I know how you feel about Intel/AMD. I've
>> been using AMD products for the past 8 years my self quiet happily, but this
>> time around it looks like Intel has a real winner for the time being.
>
>Except now it seems like AMD has the more robust platform. The choice
>now is either you buy it for the CPU alone, or you buy it for the whole
>platform.
>
> Yousuf Khan

In other words, you've got screwed. Getting C2D + DDR2-800 + 2xPATA
in one reasonably priced package looks like something hardly possible.
Just as some 10 years ago I wanted to buy a reasonably priced 4-door
compact car with manual transmission and rear wheel drive - the choice
was between BMW and Mercedes - not exactly "reasonably priced" from my
then-budget POV, so I had to go with FWD. Take another look at socket
AM2 - it's not _that_ much behind Intel on pure performance, about the
same on Price/Performance, and if you're lucky you'll be able to get
K8L as a drop-in upgrade. Though you might get screwed on this one -
my Socket940 board doesn't accept anything better than 130nm chips so
no dual core upgrade as I hoped ;-(

Good luck

NNN

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 22:27:17 -0400, Yousuf Khan wrote:

> I was out trying to price some components for an upgrade of my desktop
> system (Athlon XP 1900+ system with AGP) to something with a PCIe
> connector. Of course that now means I'll have to swap out the processor,
> RAM and motherboard too. I am open to an Intel Core 2 Duo, it would
> probably be my first Intel system in a decade. I found the choice is not
> that easy. The CPU choice is dead simple: only the 2MB C2D E6300 or
> E6400 are really available now, and nothing else. But then if you have
> to choose a motherboard, you are screwed. Not all Socket 775
> motherboards will work with C2D. And you can't even go on chipset model
> numbers to figure it out: some revisions of 975, 965, and even 945
> chipsets will work with it, while others won't. Even some motherboards
> have revisions that will or won't work, and they don't even bother to
> change the model naming on it! It's an absolute mess! Is there a list of
> compatible motherboards (and revisions) that will work with C2D?
>
> You don't have this problem with AMD, you can mate any chipset to any
> CPU, just so long as the motherboard socket is the right one.
>
> I'm also looking for a motherboard with the 2 traditional PATA channels,
> some of the recent Intel chipsets are removing all PATA support in
> favour of SATA only. I will go with SATA eventually, but in the meantime
> I still need full PATA support.
>
> Yousuf Khan

My suggestion is to get a tested combo, that way it's the responsibility
of the vendor to supply you with the correct revision of the motherboard.

"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> In other words, you've got screwed. Getting C2D + DDR2-800 + 2xPATA
> in one reasonably priced package looks like something hardly possible.
> Just as some 10 years ago I wanted to buy a reasonably priced 4-door
> compact car with manual transmission and rear wheel drive - the choice
> was between BMW and Mercedes - not exactly "reasonably priced" from my
> then-budget POV, so I had to go with FWD. Take another look at socket
> AM2 - it's not _that_ much behind Intel on pure performance, about the
> same on Price/Performance, and if you're lucky you'll be able to get
> K8L as a drop-in upgrade. Though you might get screwed on this one -
> my Socket940 board doesn't accept anything better than 130nm chips so
> no dual core upgrade as I hoped ;-(
>
> Good luck
>
> NNN

AMD has already stated that his will work, so he should be OK there. But the
real reason to go with K8L would be for the whole "accelerator" thing,
particularly now that they all but own ATI.

Carlo

On Sun, 03 Sep 2006 21:44:51 GMT, "Carlo Razzeto"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> In other words, you've got screwed. Getting C2D + DDR2-800 + 2xPATA
>> in one reasonably priced package looks like something hardly possible.
>> Just as some 10 years ago I wanted to buy a reasonably priced 4-door
>> compact car with manual transmission and rear wheel drive - the choice
>> was between BMW and Mercedes - not exactly "reasonably priced" from my
>> then-budget POV, so I had to go with FWD. Take another look at socket
>> AM2 - it's not _that_ much behind Intel on pure performance, about the
>> same on Price/Performance, and if you're lucky you'll be able to get
>> K8L as a drop-in upgrade. Though you might get screwed on this one -
>> my Socket940 board doesn't accept anything better than 130nm chips so
>> no dual core upgrade as I hoped ;-(
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>> NNN
>
>AMD has already stated that his will work, so he should be OK there. But the
>real reason to go with K8L would be for the whole "accelerator" thing,
>particularly now that they all but own ATI.
>
>Carlo
>
Not necessarily. Depends on motherboard implementation. It turned out
that 90nm chips require higher current than 130nm. Therefore, even
though it's the same socket 940, and the voltages are there, and the
wattage stays the same, the voltage regulators could under certain
condition crap out because they can't handle the amps. So the board
maker (MSI) decided not to add 90nm support to the BIOS, let alone
dual core ;-(
AMD also stated they see no reason why dual core socket 939/940 chips
wouldn't work in previous generation boards. Turned out the reasons
could pop up. Until I see the new BIOS supporting K8L I would not bet
that any particular board would ever support them. Having said that,
I'd still say chances are very good.

NNN

General Schvantzkoph wrote:
> My suggestion is to get a tested combo, that way it's the responsibility
> of the vendor to supply you with the correct revision of the motherboard.
>

Well, that is what I'd do, but often it's a matter of features that
you're looking for at a certain price. So for example, you might find a
cheap enough board, but then you'd find it's only for Pentium 4, and not
Core 2. Then you may find that you have to go with a more expensive
motherboard for the features you want.

Yousuf Khan

"(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Not necessarily. Depends on motherboard implementation. It turned out
> that 90nm chips require higher current than 130nm. Therefore, even
> though it's the same socket 940, and the voltages are there, and the
> wattage stays the same, the voltage regulators could under certain
> condition crap out because they can't handle the amps. So the board
> maker (MSI) decided not to add 90nm support to the BIOS, let alone
> dual core ;-(
> AMD also stated they see no reason why dual core socket 939/940 chips
> wouldn't work in previous generation boards. Turned out the reasons
> could pop up. Until I see the new BIOS supporting K8L I would not bet
> that any particular board would ever support them. Having said that,
> I'd still say chances are very good.
>
> NNN
>

Odd that you'd have those kinds of issues from MSI, usually they're pretty
good. I'd expect those kinds of issues with PC-Chips and other lower quality
manufacturers. I've usually never had any real issues with Asus. I guess in
the end though, at this point you can't really *lose* going with either AMD
or Intel right now... I'd be tempted with Intel at this point because Core 2
is the first desent chip they've made in a long time, though I'd be more
comfertable with AMD since that's what I've used for 8 years with *no* real
issues.

Carlo