My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel E-Sata
ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any that have an
E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear panel ports). But I
don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata port. Has anyone done this, or
is the front E-Sata port before it's time?

For instance:
The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under "Storage" :
6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)

But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?

"TVeblen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:go9rok$9o9$(E-Mail Removed)...
> My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel
> E-Sata ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any
> that have an E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear panel
> ports). But I don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata port. Has
> anyone done this, or is the front E-Sata port before it's time?

There are two connections for an SATA component, mechanical and electrical.
The e-sata is more appropriate *mechanically* for external drives. But the
other end of your case's e-sata connector should be a cable with a regular
SATA plug that you will connect to any SATA header on your mainboard.

>
> For instance:
> The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under "Storage" :
> 6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
> 2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)
>
> But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
> headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?

If you want to use the case e-sata connector, you will be left with 5
available SATA2 connectors on your mainboard. -Dave

TVeblen wrote:
> My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel E-Sata
> ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any that have an
> E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear panel ports). But I
> don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata port. Has anyone done this, or
> is the front E-Sata port before it's time?
>
> For instance:
> The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under "Storage" :
> 6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
> 2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)
>
> But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
> headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?
>
>

Third stack from the left, consists of two E-SATA connectors. These are
the rear E-SATA ports, ready to use, and are likely driven by the
JMB363 separate chip.

http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-138-135-S02?$S640W$

The ICH10 also supports ESATA. This is from the datasheet 319973 for ICH10
family.

"ICH10 supports external SATA. External SATA utilizes the SATA interface
outside of the system box. The usage model for this feature must comply
with the Serial ATA II Cables and Connectors Volume 2 Gold specification
at www.sata-io.org. Intel validates two configurations:

1. The cable-up solution involves an internal SATA cable that connects
to the SATA motherboard connector and spans to a back panel PCI bracket
with an e-SATA connector. A separate e-SATA cable is required to connect
an e-SATA device.
2. The back-panel solution involves running a trace to the I/O back panel
and connecting a device via an external SATA connector on the board."

To use one of the ordinary looking Intel motherboard SATA ports, for ESATA,
you'd use an adapter like this. Or use that SATA to ESATA front panel thing.
The essential ingredient, is that the transmit and receive voltage levels,
include enough budget for the longer allowed ESATA cable.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816111064

When purchasing external ESATA cabling for outside the computer, and using
the Intel ICH10 ports for such a purpose, it might be best to limit
overall cable length to 1 meter. The Intel datasheet doesn't meet the 500mV
minimum transmit level, which may not be a problem. To be safe, you can
limit the length of cabling used on the front setup.

+--------------+
(Rear X T-force |
Ones) X X58 | Computer case wiring, +-------------+
| | SATA to ESATA, front panel External ESATA cable | |
| ICH10R --->X------------------------------X X-----------------------X X Drive |
| X | Enclosure |
| | <---------------- ~ 1 meter -----------------------> | |
+--------------+ +-------------+

The Jmicron JMB363 might be what is driving the "real" ESATA ports
on the I/O area at the back of the computer. They're supposed to support
Gen1m and Gen2m (ESATA 150 and ESATA 300), and if you wanted to use
a 2 meter cable there, that might be OK. Since there aren't electrical
specs available, to check the transmit and receive voltage levels, it
is hard to verify how "real" the ESATA ports are.

http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JMB363.htm

E-SATA is a slight tweak on voltages, allowing higher loss via a longer
cable. So it shares much with ordinary SATA. If you are unsure of the
authenticity of the electrical interface, the best solution is to use
shorter cables with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-sata#External_SATA

"eSATA, standardized in 2004, provides a variant of SATA meant for
external connectivity. It has revised electrical requirements in
addition to incompatible cables and connectors:

* Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500–600 mV instead of 400–600 mV.
* Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240–600 mV instead of 325–600 mV.
* Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer and above),
allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external enclosures with
minimal modification
* Maximum cable length of 2 metres (6.6 ft) (USB and FireWire allow
longer distances.)"

The higher minimum transmit (500) and lower minimum receive (240) sensitivity,
is what gives a longer cable (loss) budget.

Paul

"Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:go9vvd$kia$(E-Mail Removed)...
> TVeblen wrote:
>> My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel
>> E-Sata ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any
>> that have an E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear
>> panel ports). But I don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata port.
>> Has anyone done this, or is the front E-Sata port before it's time?
>>
>> For instance:
>> The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under "Storage" :
>> 6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
>> 2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)
>>
>> But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
>> headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?
>
> Third stack from the left, consists of two E-SATA connectors. These are
> the rear E-SATA ports, ready to use, and are likely driven by the
> JMB363 separate chip.
>
> http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-138-135-S02?$S640W$
>
> The ICH10 also supports ESATA. This is from the datasheet 319973 for ICH10
> family.
>
> "ICH10 supports external SATA. External SATA utilizes the SATA
> interface
> outside of the system box. The usage model for this feature must
> comply
> with the Serial ATA II Cables and Connectors Volume 2 Gold
> specification
> at www.sata-io.org. Intel validates two configurations:
>
> 1. The cable-up solution involves an internal SATA cable that connects
> to the SATA motherboard connector and spans to a back panel PCI
> bracket
> with an e-SATA connector. A separate e-SATA cable is required to
> connect
> an e-SATA device.
> 2. The back-panel solution involves running a trace to the I/O back
> panel
> and connecting a device via an external SATA connector on the
> board."
>
> To use one of the ordinary looking Intel motherboard SATA ports, for
> ESATA,
> you'd use an adapter like this. Or use that SATA to ESATA front panel
> thing.
> The essential ingredient, is that the transmit and receive voltage levels,
> include enough budget for the longer allowed ESATA cable.
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816111064
>
> When purchasing external ESATA cabling for outside the computer, and using
> the Intel ICH10 ports for such a purpose, it might be best to limit
> overall cable length to 1 meter. The Intel datasheet doesn't meet the
> 500mV
> minimum transmit level, which may not be a problem. To be safe, you can
> limit the length of cabling used on the front setup.
>
> +--------------+
> (Rear X T-force |
> Ones) X X58 | Computer case wiring,
> +-------------+
> | | SATA to ESATA, front panel External ESATA
> cable | |
> | ICH10R --->X------------------------------X
> X-----------------------X X Drive |
> | X
> | Enclosure |
> | | <---------------- ~ 1
> meter -----------------------> | |
> +--------------+
> +-------------+
>
> The Jmicron JMB363 might be what is driving the "real" ESATA ports
> on the I/O area at the back of the computer. They're supposed to support
> Gen1m and Gen2m (ESATA 150 and ESATA 300), and if you wanted to use
> a 2 meter cable there, that might be OK. Since there aren't electrical
> specs available, to check the transmit and receive voltage levels, it
> is hard to verify how "real" the ESATA ports are.
>
> http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JMB363.htm
>
> E-SATA is a slight tweak on voltages, allowing higher loss via a longer
> cable. So it shares much with ordinary SATA. If you are unsure of the
> authenticity of the electrical interface, the best solution is to use
> shorter cables with it.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-sata#External_SATA
>
> "eSATA, standardized in 2004, provides a variant of SATA meant for
> external connectivity. It has revised electrical requirements in
> addition to incompatible cables and connectors:
>
> * Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500–600 mV instead of
> 400–600 mV.
> * Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240–600 mV instead of
> 325–600 mV.
> * Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer and
> above),
> allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external enclosures
> with
> minimal modification
> * Maximum cable length of 2 metres (6.6 ft) (USB and FireWire allow
> longer distances.)"
>
> The higher minimum transmit (500) and lower minimum receive (240)
> sensitivity,
> is what gives a longer cable (loss) budget.
>
> Paul

That is great info. Very helpful.
Yes, the Jmicron JMB363 controls the two rear Esata ports, that was never in
question. Just the chassis front panel esata connection. I had considered
the idea of running a cable from one of those back ports to the front panel
connector but didn't consider the electrical issue. Good point. The Gigabyte
EX58 UD4P motherboard comes with a similar product as the Sans Digital (2
Esata ports on an expansion slot) but theirs also has a separate electrical
connection to the power supply. I thought that seemed primitive, but maybe
not. But running a cable in and out of the back of the case is pretty
primitive too. Maybe I should just reconsider the chassis.

It is the hot swapping that creates the issue here (for me). No problem on
the two rear ports that are on the Jmicron JMB363, it meets spec. But if I
connect that front case esata to one of the ICH10R SATA2 ports can you still
safely hot swap an external drive? I'd hate to fry the Southbridge with a
static discharge because proper grounding isn't present for the possibility
of hot swapping drives.

"TVeblen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gobb07$o47$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:go9vvd$kia$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> TVeblen wrote:
>>> My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel
>>> E-Sata ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any
>>> that have an E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear
>>> panel ports). But I don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata port.
>>> Has anyone done this, or is the front E-Sata port before it's time?
>>>
>>> For instance:
>>> The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under "Storage"
>>> :
>>> 6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
>>> 2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)
>>>
>>> But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
>>> headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?
>>
>> Third stack from the left, consists of two E-SATA connectors. These are
>> the rear E-SATA ports, ready to use, and are likely driven by the
>> JMB363 separate chip.
>>
>> http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-138-135-S02?$S640W$
>>
>> The ICH10 also supports ESATA. This is from the datasheet 319973 for
>> ICH10
>> family.
>>
>> "ICH10 supports external SATA. External SATA utilizes the SATA
>> interface
>> outside of the system box. The usage model for this feature must
>> comply
>> with the Serial ATA II Cables and Connectors Volume 2 Gold
>> specification
>> at www.sata-io.org. Intel validates two configurations:
>>
>> 1. The cable-up solution involves an internal SATA cable that
>> connects
>> to the SATA motherboard connector and spans to a back panel PCI
>> bracket
>> with an e-SATA connector. A separate e-SATA cable is required to
>> connect
>> an e-SATA device.
>> 2. The back-panel solution involves running a trace to the I/O back
>> panel
>> and connecting a device via an external SATA connector on the
>> board."
>>
>> To use one of the ordinary looking Intel motherboard SATA ports, for
>> ESATA,
>> you'd use an adapter like this. Or use that SATA to ESATA front panel
>> thing.
>> The essential ingredient, is that the transmit and receive voltage
>> levels,
>> include enough budget for the longer allowed ESATA cable.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816111064
>>
>> When purchasing external ESATA cabling for outside the computer, and
>> using
>> the Intel ICH10 ports for such a purpose, it might be best to limit
>> overall cable length to 1 meter. The Intel datasheet doesn't meet the
>> 500mV
>> minimum transmit level, which may not be a problem. To be safe, you can
>> limit the length of cabling used on the front setup.
>>
>> +--------------+
>> (Rear X T-force |
>> Ones) X X58 | Computer case wiring, +-------------+
>> | | SATA to ESATA, front panel External
>> ESATA cable | |
>> | ICH10R --->X------------------------------X
>> X-----------------------X X Drive |
>> | X | Enclosure |
>> | | <---------------- ~ 1
>> meter -----------------------> | |
>> +--------------+ +-------------+
>>
>> The Jmicron JMB363 might be what is driving the "real" ESATA ports
>> on the I/O area at the back of the computer. They're supposed to support
>> Gen1m and Gen2m (ESATA 150 and ESATA 300), and if you wanted to use
>> a 2 meter cable there, that might be OK. Since there aren't electrical
>> specs available, to check the transmit and receive voltage levels, it
>> is hard to verify how "real" the ESATA ports are.
>>
>> http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JMB363.htm
>>
>> E-SATA is a slight tweak on voltages, allowing higher loss via a longer
>> cable. So it shares much with ordinary SATA. If you are unsure of the
>> authenticity of the electrical interface, the best solution is to use
>> shorter cables with it.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-sata#External_SATA
>>
>> "eSATA, standardized in 2004, provides a variant of SATA meant for
>> external connectivity. It has revised electrical requirements in
>> addition to incompatible cables and connectors:
>>
>> * Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500-600 mV instead
>> of 400-600 mV.
>> * Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240-600 mV instead
>> of 325-600 mV.
>> * Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer and
>> above),
>> allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external enclosures
>> with
>> minimal modification
>> * Maximum cable length of 2 metres (6.6 ft) (USB and FireWire allow
>> longer distances.)"
>>
>> The higher minimum transmit (500) and lower minimum receive (240)
>> sensitivity,
>> is what gives a longer cable (loss) budget.
>>
>> Paul
>
> That is great info. Very helpful.
> Yes, the Jmicron JMB363 controls the two rear Esata ports, that was never
> in question. Just the chassis front panel esata connection. I had
> considered the idea of running a cable from one of those back ports to the
> front panel connector but didn't consider the electrical issue. Good
> point. The Gigabyte EX58 UD4P motherboard comes with a similar product as
> the Sans Digital (2 Esata ports on an expansion slot) but theirs also has
> a separate electrical connection to the power supply. I thought that
> seemed primitive, but maybe not. But running a cable in and out of the
> back of the case is pretty primitive too. Maybe I should just reconsider
> the chassis.
>
> It is the hot swapping that creates the issue here (for me). No problem on
> the two rear ports that are on the Jmicron JMB363, it meets spec. But if I
> connect that front case esata to one of the ICH10R SATA2 ports can you
> still safely hot swap an external drive? I'd hate to fry the Southbridge
> with a static discharge because proper grounding isn't present for the
> possibility of hot swapping drives.
>

The Lian-li PC-k10b case manual shows the wiring and connectors for their
case. The Esata chassis port has a SATA cable and connector. Simple enough.
From the schematic it LOOKS like the Esata and IEEE1394 run from the same
"block" on the front panel. There is also a third connector coming from that
"block" . It is a 10 pin connector that pins like so:

KEY 10 9
Black (GND) 8 Black (GND) 7
Green 6 Green 5
White 4 White 3
Red 2 Red 1

The same as the USB connector. There are 2 pairs of USB ports on the front
panel so that third connector may be simply the second pair of USB ports
that was not labeled on the schematic and the "block" is simply diagrammatic
and I am reading way too much into this. But could that wiring have anything
to do with the Esata port and hot swapping?

TVeblen wrote:
> "TVeblen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:gobb07$o47$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:go9vvd$kia$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> TVeblen wrote:
>>>> My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel
>>>> E-Sata ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any
>>>> that have an E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear
>>>> panel ports). But I don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata port.
>>>> Has anyone done this, or is the front E-Sata port before it's time?
>>>>
>>>> For instance:
>>>> The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under "Storage"
>>>> :
>>>> 6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
>>>> 2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)
>>>>
>>>> But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
>>>> headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?
>>> Third stack from the left, consists of two E-SATA connectors. These are
>>> the rear E-SATA ports, ready to use, and are likely driven by the
>>> JMB363 separate chip.
>>>
>>> http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-138-135-S02?$S640W$
>>>
>>> The ICH10 also supports ESATA. This is from the datasheet 319973 for
>>> ICH10
>>> family.
>>>
>>> "ICH10 supports external SATA. External SATA utilizes the SATA
>>> interface
>>> outside of the system box. The usage model for this feature must
>>> comply
>>> with the Serial ATA II Cables and Connectors Volume 2 Gold
>>> specification
>>> at www.sata-io.org. Intel validates two configurations:
>>>
>>> 1. The cable-up solution involves an internal SATA cable that
>>> connects
>>> to the SATA motherboard connector and spans to a back panel PCI
>>> bracket
>>> with an e-SATA connector. A separate e-SATA cable is required to
>>> connect
>>> an e-SATA device.
>>> 2. The back-panel solution involves running a trace to the I/O back
>>> panel
>>> and connecting a device via an external SATA connector on the
>>> board."
>>>
>>> To use one of the ordinary looking Intel motherboard SATA ports, for
>>> ESATA,
>>> you'd use an adapter like this. Or use that SATA to ESATA front panel
>>> thing.
>>> The essential ingredient, is that the transmit and receive voltage
>>> levels,
>>> include enough budget for the longer allowed ESATA cable.
>>>
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816111064
>>>
>>> When purchasing external ESATA cabling for outside the computer, and
>>> using
>>> the Intel ICH10 ports for such a purpose, it might be best to limit
>>> overall cable length to 1 meter. The Intel datasheet doesn't meet the
>>> 500mV
>>> minimum transmit level, which may not be a problem. To be safe, you can
>>> limit the length of cabling used on the front setup.
>>>
>>> +--------------+
>>> (Rear X T-force |
>>> Ones) X X58 | Computer case wiring, +-------------+
>>> | | SATA to ESATA, front panel External
>>> ESATA cable | |
>>> | ICH10R --->X------------------------------X
>>> X-----------------------X X Drive |
>>> | X | Enclosure |
>>> | | <---------------- ~ 1
>>> meter -----------------------> | |
>>> +--------------+ +-------------+
>>>
>>> The Jmicron JMB363 might be what is driving the "real" ESATA ports
>>> on the I/O area at the back of the computer. They're supposed to support
>>> Gen1m and Gen2m (ESATA 150 and ESATA 300), and if you wanted to use
>>> a 2 meter cable there, that might be OK. Since there aren't electrical
>>> specs available, to check the transmit and receive voltage levels, it
>>> is hard to verify how "real" the ESATA ports are.
>>>
>>> http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JMB363.htm
>>>
>>> E-SATA is a slight tweak on voltages, allowing higher loss via a longer
>>> cable. So it shares much with ordinary SATA. If you are unsure of the
>>> authenticity of the electrical interface, the best solution is to use
>>> shorter cables with it.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-sata#External_SATA
>>>
>>> "eSATA, standardized in 2004, provides a variant of SATA meant for
>>> external connectivity. It has revised electrical requirements in
>>> addition to incompatible cables and connectors:
>>>
>>> * Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500-600 mV instead
>>> of 400-600 mV.
>>> * Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240-600 mV instead
>>> of 325-600 mV.
>>> * Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer and
>>> above),
>>> allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external enclosures
>>> with
>>> minimal modification
>>> * Maximum cable length of 2 metres (6.6 ft) (USB and FireWire allow
>>> longer distances.)"
>>>
>>> The higher minimum transmit (500) and lower minimum receive (240)
>>> sensitivity,
>>> is what gives a longer cable (loss) budget.
>>>
>>> Paul
>> That is great info. Very helpful.
>> Yes, the Jmicron JMB363 controls the two rear Esata ports, that was never
>> in question. Just the chassis front panel esata connection. I had
>> considered the idea of running a cable from one of those back ports to the
>> front panel connector but didn't consider the electrical issue. Good
>> point. The Gigabyte EX58 UD4P motherboard comes with a similar product as
>> the Sans Digital (2 Esata ports on an expansion slot) but theirs also has
>> a separate electrical connection to the power supply. I thought that
>> seemed primitive, but maybe not. But running a cable in and out of the
>> back of the case is pretty primitive too. Maybe I should just reconsider
>> the chassis.
>>
>> It is the hot swapping that creates the issue here (for me). No problem on
>> the two rear ports that are on the Jmicron JMB363, it meets spec. But if I
>> connect that front case esata to one of the ICH10R SATA2 ports can you
>> still safely hot swap an external drive? I'd hate to fry the Southbridge
>> with a static discharge because proper grounding isn't present for the
>> possibility of hot swapping drives.
>>
>
> The Lian-li PC-k10b case manual shows the wiring and connectors for their
> case. The Esata chassis port has a SATA cable and connector. Simple enough.
> From the schematic it LOOKS like the Esata and IEEE1394 run from the same
> "block" on the front panel. There is also a third connector coming from that
> "block" . It is a 10 pin connector that pins like so:
>
> KEY 10 9
> Black (GND) 8 Black (GND) 7
> Green 6 Green 5
> White 4 White 3
> Red 2 Red 1
>
> The same as the USB connector. There are 2 pairs of USB ports on the front
> panel so that third connector may be simply the second pair of USB ports
> that was not labeled on the schematic and the "block" is simply diagrammatic
> and I am reading way too much into this. But could that wiring have anything
> to do with the Esata port and hot swapping?
>
>

You can run an ESATA connection, using one of the six SATA connectors on
the motherboard. That is what the Intel spec is saying.

The product is on this site, rather than the main lian-li.com.tw site.

http://www.lancoolpc.com/en/product/...ndex=62&g=spec

The manual labels things pretty well. The one error in the diagram,
is the second USB connector is missing its label. There is a black
box, where the word "USB" belongs. You can tell, by the wire colors
of the unlabeled cable, matching the USB one above it. So it is just
a drawing mistake. The case has four USB ports on the front, which
requires two USB cables with 2x5 connectors on the end.

http://www.lian-li.com/v2/tw/product...0.K1000.00.pdf

The SATA connector at the bottom, could be connected to one of
your motherboard SATA connectors (on the Intel Southbridge). With
AHCI driver mode enabled, you'd get hotplug capability, and the
ability to plug and unplug the external ESATA drive, while
the OS is running. If no AHCI setup is used, then the drive
must be connected when the OS boots, for it to be connected.
That is the general idea.

Running a cable from the back of the computer (the "real" ESATA port),
and then adapting it to the front of the case, is a bit extreme. I
don't know if they make a cable with a female SATA end on it or
not. Using the SATA port on your motherboard will be a lot easier.

Paul

"Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:goccqs$ekb$(E-Mail Removed)...
> TVeblen wrote:
>> "TVeblen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:gobb07$o47$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:go9vvd$kia$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> TVeblen wrote:
>>>>> My head hurts. A couple of the cases I'm looking at have front panel
>>>>> E-Sata ports. I am looking at the X58 motherboards and I don't see any
>>>>> that have an E-Sata header on the motherboard (most have E-Sata rear
>>>>> panel ports). But I don't see how you connect the chassis' E-Sata
>>>>> port. Has anyone done this, or is the front E-Sata port before it's
>>>>> time?
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance:
>>>>> The Biostar T-Power X58 motherboard lists in it's specs under
>>>>> "Storage" :
>>>>> 6 x SATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1,5,10)
>>>>> 2 x eSATA2 Connector (Raid 0,1)
>>>>>
>>>>> But when I look in the motherboard manual I see no extra connectors or
>>>>> headers shown other than the 6 SATA2. Am I missing something?
>>>> Third stack from the left, consists of two E-SATA connectors. These are
>>>> the rear E-SATA ports, ready to use, and are likely driven by the
>>>> JMB363 separate chip.
>>>>
>>>> http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/13-138-135-S02?$S640W$
>>>>
>>>> The ICH10 also supports ESATA. This is from the datasheet 319973 for
>>>> ICH10
>>>> family.
>>>>
>>>> "ICH10 supports external SATA. External SATA utilizes the SATA
>>>> interface
>>>> outside of the system box. The usage model for this feature must
>>>> comply
>>>> with the Serial ATA II Cables and Connectors Volume 2 Gold
>>>> specification
>>>> at www.sata-io.org. Intel validates two configurations:
>>>>
>>>> 1. The cable-up solution involves an internal SATA cable that
>>>> connects
>>>> to the SATA motherboard connector and spans to a back panel PCI
>>>> bracket
>>>> with an e-SATA connector. A separate e-SATA cable is required to
>>>> connect
>>>> an e-SATA device.
>>>> 2. The back-panel solution involves running a trace to the I/O back
>>>> panel
>>>> and connecting a device via an external SATA connector on the
>>>> board."
>>>>
>>>> To use one of the ordinary looking Intel motherboard SATA ports, for
>>>> ESATA,
>>>> you'd use an adapter like this. Or use that SATA to ESATA front panel
>>>> thing.
>>>> The essential ingredient, is that the transmit and receive voltage
>>>> levels,
>>>> include enough budget for the longer allowed ESATA cable.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816111064
>>>>
>>>> When purchasing external ESATA cabling for outside the computer, and
>>>> using
>>>> the Intel ICH10 ports for such a purpose, it might be best to limit
>>>> overall cable length to 1 meter. The Intel datasheet doesn't meet the
>>>> 500mV
>>>> minimum transmit level, which may not be a problem. To be safe, you can
>>>> limit the length of cabling used on the front setup.
>>>>
>>>> +--------------+
>>>> (Rear X T-force |
>>>> Ones) X X58 | Computer case wiring, +-------------+
>>>> | | SATA to ESATA, front panel External
>>>> ESATA cable | |
>>>> | ICH10R --->X------------------------------X
>>>> X-----------------------X X Drive |
>>>> | X | Enclosure |
>>>> | | <---------------- ~ 1
>>>> meter -----------------------> | |
>>>> +--------------+ +-------------+
>>>>
>>>> The Jmicron JMB363 might be what is driving the "real" ESATA ports
>>>> on the I/O area at the back of the computer. They're supposed to
>>>> support
>>>> Gen1m and Gen2m (ESATA 150 and ESATA 300), and if you wanted to use
>>>> a 2 meter cable there, that might be OK. Since there aren't electrical
>>>> specs available, to check the transmit and receive voltage levels, it
>>>> is hard to verify how "real" the ESATA ports are.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jmicron.com/Product_JMB363.htm
>>>>
>>>> E-SATA is a slight tweak on voltages, allowing higher loss via a longer
>>>> cable. So it shares much with ordinary SATA. If you are unsure of the
>>>> authenticity of the electrical interface, the best solution is to use
>>>> shorter cables with it.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-sata#External_SATA
>>>>
>>>> "eSATA, standardized in 2004, provides a variant of SATA meant for
>>>> external connectivity. It has revised electrical requirements in
>>>> addition to incompatible cables and connectors:
>>>>
>>>> * Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500-600 mV instead
>>>> of 400-600 mV.
>>>> * Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240-600 mV instead
>>>> of 325-600 mV.
>>>> * Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer
>>>> and above),
>>>> allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external
>>>> enclosures with
>>>> minimal modification
>>>> * Maximum cable length of 2 metres (6.6 ft) (USB and FireWire allow
>>>> longer distances.)"
>>>>
>>>> The higher minimum transmit (500) and lower minimum receive (240)
>>>> sensitivity,
>>>> is what gives a longer cable (loss) budget.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>> That is great info. Very helpful.
>>> Yes, the Jmicron JMB363 controls the two rear Esata ports, that was
>>> never in question. Just the chassis front panel esata connection. I had
>>> considered the idea of running a cable from one of those back ports to
>>> the front panel connector but didn't consider the electrical issue. Good
>>> point. The Gigabyte EX58 UD4P motherboard comes with a similar product
>>> as the Sans Digital (2 Esata ports on an expansion slot) but theirs also
>>> has a separate electrical connection to the power supply. I thought that
>>> seemed primitive, but maybe not. But running a cable in and out of the
>>> back of the case is pretty primitive too. Maybe I should just reconsider
>>> the chassis.
>>>
>>> It is the hot swapping that creates the issue here (for me). No problem
>>> on the two rear ports that are on the Jmicron JMB363, it meets spec. But
>>> if I connect that front case esata to one of the ICH10R SATA2 ports can
>>> you still safely hot swap an external drive? I'd hate to fry the
>>> Southbridge with a static discharge because proper grounding isn't
>>> present for the possibility of hot swapping drives.
>>>
>>
>> The Lian-li PC-k10b case manual shows the wiring and connectors for their
>> case. The Esata chassis port has a SATA cable and connector. Simple
>> enough. From the schematic it LOOKS like the Esata and IEEE1394 run from
>> the same "block" on the front panel. There is also a third connector
>> coming from that "block" . It is a 10 pin connector that pins like so:
>>
>> KEY 10 9
>> Black (GND) 8 Black (GND) 7
>> Green 6 Green 5
>> White 4 White 3
>> Red 2 Red 1
>>
>> The same as the USB connector. There are 2 pairs of USB ports on the
>> front panel so that third connector may be simply the second pair of USB
>> ports that was not labeled on the schematic and the "block" is simply
>> diagrammatic and I am reading way too much into this. But could that
>> wiring have anything to do with the Esata port and hot swapping?
>
> You can run an ESATA connection, using one of the six SATA connectors on
> the motherboard. That is what the Intel spec is saying.
>
> The product is on this site, rather than the main lian-li.com.tw site.
>
> http://www.lancoolpc.com/en/product/...ndex=62&g=spec
>
> The manual labels things pretty well. The one error in the diagram,
> is the second USB connector is missing its label. There is a black
> box, where the word "USB" belongs. You can tell, by the wire colors
> of the unlabeled cable, matching the USB one above it. So it is just
> a drawing mistake. The case has four USB ports on the front, which
> requires two USB cables with 2x5 connectors on the end.
>
> http://www.lian-li.com/v2/tw/product...0.K1000.00.pdf
>
> The SATA connector at the bottom, could be connected to one of
> your motherboard SATA connectors (on the Intel Southbridge). With
> AHCI driver mode enabled, you'd get hotplug capability, and the
> ability to plug and unplug the external ESATA drive, while
> the OS is running. If no AHCI setup is used, then the drive
> must be connected when the OS boots, for it to be connected.
> That is the general idea.
>
> Running a cable from the back of the computer (the "real" ESATA port),
> and then adapting it to the front of the case, is a bit extreme. I
> don't know if they make a cable with a female SATA end on it or
> not. Using the SATA port on your motherboard will be a lot easier.
>
> Paul

Thanks Paul