Not OT I hope.

I have an old AOL Photocam Plus camera that seems to work quite well.
It has a USB connector to facilitate picture uploads to PC USB (in my
case XP SP3). Problem is - it did not work because that process
requires that the pictures being transferred seem to need to be done
from the camera memory card which is a CF flash card. I did not have
same, so I bought a Qmemory 2GB CF card just to test the process.

I cannot get uploading to work that way either. In fact, when I load
the card into the camera's slot for it, the camera display immediately
displays the message 'error code 0004'. I have found that error
message in some Google searching, but all the posts I find are Wii SD
card related, and I cannot connect those problems to what I am seeing.

So, anyone have this camera? If so, have you had this problem? Can
you suggest anything I can try before I pitch the camera?

Thanks

Frederick

On 12/15/2011 3:46 PM, Frederick wrote:
> Not OT I hope.
>
> I have an old AOL Photocam Plus camera that seems to work quite well.
> It has a USB connector to facilitate picture uploads to PC USB (in my
> case XP SP3). Problem is - it did not work because that process
> requires that the pictures being transferred seem to need to be done
> from the camera memory card which is a CF flash card. I did not have
> same, so I bought a Qmemory 2GB CF card just to test the process.
>
> I cannot get uploading to work that way either. In fact, when I load
> the card into the camera's slot for it, the camera display immediately
> displays the message 'error code 0004'. I have found that error
> message in some Google searching, but all the posts I find are Wii SD
> card related, and I cannot connect those problems to what I am seeing.
>
> So, anyone have this camera? If so, have you had this problem? Can
> you suggest anything I can try before I pitch the camera?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frederick

You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB card? A
lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory that they
could access and if presented with more than they could handle the results
are likely to be totally unpredictable.

After a quick look online I see that the camera is vintage 1998. I don't
really think that an amateur camera of that vintage will be operable with a
2GB CF. I tried to find a manual to verify but didn't come up with anything.

John McGaw wrote:
> On 12/15/2011 3:46 PM, Frederick wrote:
>> Not OT I hope.
>>
>> I have an old AOL Photocam Plus camera that seems to work quite well.
>> It has a USB connector to facilitate picture uploads to PC USB (in my
>> case XP SP3). Problem is - it did not work because that process
>> requires that the pictures being transferred seem to need to be done
>> from the camera memory card which is a CF flash card. I did not have
>> same, so I bought a Qmemory 2GB CF card just to test the process.
>>
>> I cannot get uploading to work that way either. In fact, when I load
>> the card into the camera's slot for it, the camera display immediately
>> displays the message 'error code 0004'. I have found that error
>> message in some Google searching, but all the posts I find are Wii SD
>> card related, and I cannot connect those problems to what I am seeing.
>>
>> So, anyone have this camera? If so, have you had this problem? Can
>> you suggest anything I can try before I pitch the camera?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Frederick
>
> You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB card? A
> lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory that they
> could access and if presented with more than they could handle the
> results are likely to be totally unpredictable.
>
> After a quick look online I see that the camera is vintage 1998. I don't
> really think that an amateur camera of that vintage will be operable
> with a 2GB CF. I tried to find a manual to verify but didn't come up
> with anything.

One reviewer of the Pretec DC-600, says it takes "up to 32MB" CF card.
The CF card spec, seems to have been capable of 137GB from early on,
but the devices may not have tested that.

http://www.amazon.com/Pretec-DC-600-.../dp/B00004TQMR

The table here, also mentions a 32MB limit. If you were counting 512 byte
sectors, that would correspond to 65536 sectors, which is a 16 bit number.
So perhaps the camera is limited to "16 bit math".

http://www.synchrotech.com/support/x...icamera2b.html

In the article here, FAT12 just happens to stop at 32MB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

"The disk's size is stored as a 16-bit count of sectors,
which limited the size to 32 MB."

So maybe that's where the limit comes from. A wish
to only support one flavor of FAT (FAT12).

Try something a little smaller.

Paul

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:07:08 -0500, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB card? A
>> lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory that they
>> could access and if presented with more than they could handle the
>> results are likely to be totally unpredictable.
>>
>> After a quick look online I see that the camera is vintage 1998. I don't
>> really think that an amateur camera of that vintage will be operable
>> with a 2GB CF. I tried to find a manual to verify but didn't come up
>> with anything.
>
>One reviewer of the Pretec DC-600, says it takes "up to 32MB" CF card.
>The CF card spec, seems to have been capable of 137GB from early on,
>but the devices may not have tested that.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/Pretec-DC-600-.../dp/B00004TQMR
>
>The table here, also mentions a 32MB limit. If you were counting 512 byte
>sectors, that would correspond to 65536 sectors, which is a 16 bit number.
>So perhaps the camera is limited to "16 bit math".
>
>http://www.synchrotech.com/support/x...icamera2b.html
>
>In the article here, FAT12 just happens to stop at 32MB.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
>
> "The disk's size is stored as a 16-bit count of sectors,
> which limited the size to 32 MB."
>
>So maybe that's where the limit comes from. A wish
>to only support one flavor of FAT (FAT12).
>
>Try something a little smaller.
>
> Paul


You guys may be right.I emailed the vendor of the card before I bought
it, and specifically asked him if it would work in this camera. He
answered affirmative. Elst I would not have bought it.

My PC has a CF card reader and the memory card is shown as a discrete
drive (d. The PC will format it both FAT and NTFS, with a size 2GB.
I can copy PC jpeg's onto the card and display the from the card (in
the PC). However the card still registers the error 0004 in the
camera itself both FAT and NTFS.

To the junk pile it goes.

Thanks

Frederick

Frederick wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:07:08 -0500, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB card? A
>>> lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory that they
>>> could access and if presented with more than they could handle the
>>> results are likely to be totally unpredictable.
>>>
>>> After a quick look online I see that the camera is vintage 1998. I don't
>>> really think that an amateur camera of that vintage will be operable
>>> with a 2GB CF. I tried to find a manual to verify but didn't come up
>>> with anything.
>> One reviewer of the Pretec DC-600, says it takes "up to 32MB" CF card.
>> The CF card spec, seems to have been capable of 137GB from early on,
>> but the devices may not have tested that.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Pretec-DC-600-.../dp/B00004TQMR
>>
>> The table here, also mentions a 32MB limit. If you were counting 512 byte
>> sectors, that would correspond to 65536 sectors, which is a 16 bit number.
>> So perhaps the camera is limited to "16 bit math".
>>
>> http://www.synchrotech.com/support/x...icamera2b.html
>>
>> In the article here, FAT12 just happens to stop at 32MB.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
>>
>> "The disk's size is stored as a 16-bit count of sectors,
>> which limited the size to 32 MB."
>>
>> So maybe that's where the limit comes from. A wish
>> to only support one flavor of FAT (FAT12).
>>
>> Try something a little smaller.
>>
>> Paul
>
>
> You guys may be right.I emailed the vendor of the card before I bought
> it, and specifically asked him if it would work in this camera. He
> answered affirmative. Elst I would not have bought it.
>
> My PC has a CF card reader and the memory card is shown as a discrete
> drive (d. The PC will format it both FAT and NTFS, with a size 2GB.
> I can copy PC jpeg's onto the card and display the from the card (in
> the PC). However the card still registers the error 0004 in the
> camera itself both FAT and NTFS.
>
> To the junk pile it goes.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frederick

But remember though, there are several flavors of FAT. And you
want to be offered a chance to format FAT12 (on the assumption
that is the only format the camera supports).

I think I may have had a problem like that here. I had an 8GB USB
stick, and I couldn't get a formatting tool to offer the lower FAT
options. I thought, somehow, you could get the formatting software
to ignore some of the flash, but it didn't happen. I eventually
ended up getting a second flash, just so I could move on.

Occasionally, there are hacks to change the declared size of
storage devices. Since your CF card follows the ATA spec, it's
possible you could use SETMAX and friends and create an HPA,
and make the device smaller to casual inspection. Perhaps
that would be enough to fool the camera ? I don't know. I
wouldn't throw the CF in the garbage just yet, until you've
looked around a bit, to see if that's been done before or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_Protected_Area

Paul

Grinder wrote:
> On 12/15/2011 6:42 PM, Paul wrote:
>> Frederick wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:07:08 -0500, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB
>>>>> card? A lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory
>>>>> that they could access and if presented with more than they could
>>>>> handle the results are likely to be totally unpredictable.
>>>>>
>>>>> After a quick look online I see that the camera is vintage 1998. I
>>>>> don't really think that an amateur camera of that vintage will be
>>>>> operable with a 2GB CF. I tried to find a manual to verify but
>>>>> didn't come up with anything.
>>>> One reviewer of the Pretec DC-600, says it takes "up to 32MB" CF card.
>>>> The CF card spec, seems to have been capable of 137GB from early on,
>>>> but the devices may not have tested that.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pretec-DC-600-.../dp/B00004TQMR
>>>>
>>>> The table here, also mentions a 32MB limit. If you were counting 512
>>>> byte
>>>> sectors, that would correspond to 65536 sectors, which is a 16 bit
>>>> number.
>>>> So perhaps the camera is limited to "16 bit math".
>>>>
>>>> http://www.synchrotech.com/support/x...icamera2b.html
>>>>
>>>> In the article here, FAT12 just happens to stop at 32MB.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
>>>>
>>>> "The disk's size is stored as a 16-bit count of sectors,
>>>> which limited the size to 32 MB."
>>>>
>>>> So maybe that's where the limit comes from. A wish
>>>> to only support one flavor of FAT (FAT12).
>>>>
>>>> Try something a little smaller.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> You guys may be right.I emailed the vendor of the card before I bought
>>> it, and specifically asked him if it would work in this camera. He
>>> answered affirmative. Elst I would not have bought it.
>>>
>>> My PC has a CF card reader and the memory card is shown as a discrete
>>> drive (d. The PC will format it both FAT and NTFS, with a size 2GB.
>>> I can copy PC jpeg's onto the card and display the from the card (in
>>> the PC). However the card still registers the error 0004 in the
>>> camera itself both FAT and NTFS.
>>>
>>> To the junk pile it goes.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Frederick
>>
>> But remember though, there are several flavors of FAT. And you
>> want to be offered a chance to format FAT12 (on the assumption
>> that is the only format the camera supports).
>>
>> I think I may have had a problem like that here. I had an 8GB USB
>> stick, and I couldn't get a formatting tool to offer the lower FAT
>> options. I thought, somehow, you could get the formatting software
>> to ignore some of the flash, but it didn't happen. I eventually
>> ended up getting a second flash, just so I could move on.
>>
>> Occasionally, there are hacks to change the declared size of
>> storage devices. Since your CF card follows the ATA spec, it's
>> possible you could use SETMAX and friends and create an HPA,
>> and make the device smaller to casual inspection. Perhaps
>> that would be enough to fool the camera ? I don't know. I
>> wouldn't throw the CF in the garbage just yet, until you've
>> looked around a bit, to see if that's been done before or not.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_Protected_Area
>>
>> Paul
>
> Could he use a tool like Parted Magic to establish a single 32MB FAT32
> partition on the memory card? It seems like that would work, or at
> least provide more diagnostic info.

There wouldn't be a problem putting FAT32 on it.

The problem is, my guess is the camera only understands FAT12.
It would barf if it sees FAT32. I've seen two references to a
32MB limit for that camera, and that aligns with FAT12 limitations.
The AOL camera is actually a Pretec, relabeled.

Now, it would be one thing, to put a FAT12 file system on it. If
the camera does some fancy check, it might still be able to
detect some geometry info that upsets it. So trimming the thing
down, isn't a guarantee it would work, merely a means of
trying to get closer to the 32MB limit. It's still an experiment,
not a sure thing.

Paul

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:03:48 -0500, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>> Could he use a tool like Parted Magic to establish a single 32MB FAT32
>> partition on the memory card? It seems like that would work, or at
>> least provide more diagnostic info.
>
>There wouldn't be a problem putting FAT32 on it.
>
>The problem is, my guess is the camera only understands FAT12.
>It would barf if it sees FAT32. I've seen two references to a
>32MB limit for that camera, and that aligns with FAT12 limitations.
>The AOL camera is actually a Pretec, relabeled.
>
>Now, it would be one thing, to put a FAT12 file system on it. If
>the camera does some fancy check, it might still be able to
>detect some geometry info that upsets it. So trimming the thing
>down, isn't a guarantee it would work, merely a means of
>trying to get closer to the 32MB limit. It's still an experiment,
>not a sure thing.
>
> Paul


Your posts suggested that I try PMagic to re-partition the thing with
a small first partition. Alas, PMagic does not recognize the card as
a drive so that I could try it.

Oh well...

Thanks again

Frederick

"Frederick" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:07:08 -0500, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB card? A
>>> lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory that they
>>> could access and if presented with more than they could handle the
>>> results are likely to be totally unpredictable.

> You guys may be right.I emailed the vendor of the card before I bought
> it, and specifically asked him if it would work in this camera. He
> answered affirmative. Elst I would not have bought it.

You may find a practical difference between
(1) Minimal practical function, that the camera will write
pictures to the 2 Gb card (and not much more)
(2) Full functionality, i.e. that the camera connects with
any modern computer using its (1998-era) proprietary
software and connector cable.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On 12/16/2011 6:32 AM, Grinder wrote:
> On 12/16/2011 4:03 AM, Paul wrote:
>> Grinder wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2011 6:42 PM, Paul wrote:
>>>> Frederick wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:07:08 -0500, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You say that the camera is 'old'. Is it even rated to take a 2GB
>>>>>>> card? A lot of the old equipment was limited in the amount of memory
>>>>>>> that they could access and if presented with more than they could
>>>>>>> handle the results are likely to be totally unpredictable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After a quick look online I see that the camera is vintage 1998. I
>>>>>>> don't really think that an amateur camera of that vintage will be
>>>>>>> operable with a 2GB CF. I tried to find a manual to verify but
>>>>>>> didn't come up with anything.
>>>>>> One reviewer of the Pretec DC-600, says it takes "up to 32MB" CF
>>>>>> card.
>>>>>> The CF card spec, seems to have been capable of 137GB from early on,
>>>>>> but the devices may not have tested that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Pretec-DC-600-.../dp/B00004TQMR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The table here, also mentions a 32MB limit. If you were counting 512
>>>>>> byte
>>>>>> sectors, that would correspond to 65536 sectors, which is a 16 bit
>>>>>> number.
>>>>>> So perhaps the camera is limited to "16 bit math".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.synchrotech.com/support/x...icamera2b.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the article here, FAT12 just happens to stop at 32MB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The disk's size is stored as a 16-bit count of sectors,
>>>>>> which limited the size to 32 MB."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe that's where the limit comes from. A wish
>>>>>> to only support one flavor of FAT (FAT12).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try something a little smaller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys may be right.I emailed the vendor of the card before I bought
>>>>> it, and specifically asked him if it would work in this camera. He
>>>>> answered affirmative. Elst I would not have bought it.
>>>>>
>>>>> My PC has a CF card reader and the memory card is shown as a discrete
>>>>> drive (d. The PC will format it both FAT and NTFS, with a size 2GB.
>>>>> I can copy PC jpeg's onto the card and display the from the card (in
>>>>> the PC). However the card still registers the error 0004 in the
>>>>> camera itself both FAT and NTFS.
>>>>>
>>>>> To the junk pile it goes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Frederick
>>>>
>>>> But remember though, there are several flavors of FAT. And you
>>>> want to be offered a chance to format FAT12 (on the assumption
>>>> that is the only format the camera supports).
>>>>
>>>> I think I may have had a problem like that here. I had an 8GB USB
>>>> stick, and I couldn't get a formatting tool to offer the lower FAT
>>>> options. I thought, somehow, you could get the formatting software
>>>> to ignore some of the flash, but it didn't happen. I eventually
>>>> ended up getting a second flash, just so I could move on.
>>>>
>>>> Occasionally, there are hacks to change the declared size of
>>>> storage devices. Since your CF card follows the ATA spec, it's
>>>> possible you could use SETMAX and friends and create an HPA,
>>>> and make the device smaller to casual inspection. Perhaps
>>>> that would be enough to fool the camera ? I don't know. I
>>>> wouldn't throw the CF in the garbage just yet, until you've
>>>> looked around a bit, to see if that's been done before or not.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_Protected_Area
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Could he use a tool like Parted Magic to establish a single 32MB FAT32
>>> partition on the memory card? It seems like that would work, or at
>>> least provide more diagnostic info.
>>
>> There wouldn't be a problem putting FAT32 on it.
>>
>> The problem is, my guess is the camera only understands FAT12.
>> It would barf if it sees FAT32. I've seen two references to a
>> 32MB limit for that camera, and that aligns with FAT12 limitations.
>> The AOL camera is actually a Pretec, relabeled.
>>
>> Now, it would be one thing, to put a FAT12 file system on it. If
>> the camera does some fancy check, it might still be able to
>> detect some geometry info that upsets it. So trimming the thing
>> down, isn't a guarantee it would work, merely a means of
>> trying to get closer to the 32MB limit. It's still an experiment,
>> not a sure thing.
>
> Yeah sorry, my mind was thinking FAT12, but apparently my fingers typed
> FAT32.

Just for kicks you might consider running this program to see if it
provides any useful functions, maybe selecting Partition Recovery will
create a partition you can use or make small enough to use:

http://www.easeus.com/resource/drive/compact-flash.htm