http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/def...sectionid=1585


PS3 due in March 2006

[27/05/04 15:28]
PlayStation 3 confirmed as "focus" for Sony's Cell chip - although
it'll also be used to give their TVs "computer-like functions". Lordy


After Sony's somewhat obscure comments at their E3 conference
regarding their forthcoming Cell processor - which will be used to
power PlayStation 3 - Sony chairman Nonuyuki Idei has revealed more of
their plans for the chip. And he's confirmed that their first consumer
application for it is going to be PS3, which now looks set to appear
in March 2006.

"We'll first focus on developing a successor console to the
PlayStation 2," he says. "But incorporating the Cell chip into TVs
will give us greater control in adding functions, so we'll
concurrently pursue the development of a new game console and the
incorporation of the chip into TVs. It just means that demand for TVs
with computer-like functions is starting to emerge and we are going to
meet such demand."

So what "computer-like functions" will those be, then? We'd imagine
that we'll see Sony's next-gen TVs have built-in PSX-like capabilities
that will enable them to play games, connect to the net, and store and
play MP3s, movies and music. In addition, don't be surprised if the
PSP's wi-fi function will enable you use it as a remote control for
your Sony home entertainment set-up.

Trial production of the Cell processor itself has already started and
the first prototype of a Cell-based workstation is due to be ready by
the end of the year. With Sony having announced that they plan to
start shifting Cell-based products in March 2006, and with PS3 being
Sony's priority for the chip, it appears that this could well be the
planned release date for PS3.

R420 wrote:

<snip

> So what "computer-like functions" will those be, then?

Everything that isn't Windows-proprietary, like Windows Media, and Sony
will be pushing some new format that isn't Windows-proprietary.

Cell-based computers (a television with "computer-like functions"--what
is that?--it's a computer) will rely on Linux to spring to life, and
MontaVista makes a really nice chip that will boot linux without a disk
or that annoying wait for the system to load from disk.

I suspect Sony already has MontaVista on board; anybody know for sure?

Think Gates is worried? I do.

RM

Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote :

> spring to life, and MontaVista makes a really nice chip that will
> boot linux without a disk or that annoying wait for the system to
> load from disk.

MontaVista doesnt make jack sh.., they are a bunch of 'support ppl', and
all they support is a few of development boards. Try to ask them a real
question. Nnot about installing, but instability in your product for
example. All you'r going to hear is "but it works on a development
board" .

> I suspect Sony already has MontaVista on board; anybody know for
> sure?

on board ? you mean they go fishing together ? :-)


Pozdrawiam.
--
RusH //
http://pulse.pdi.net/~rush/qv30/
Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

RusH wrote:
> Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote :
>
>
>>spring to life, and MontaVista makes a really nice chip that will
>>boot linux without a disk or that annoying wait for the system to
>>load from disk.
>
>
> MontaVista doesnt make jack sh.., they are a bunch of 'support ppl', and
> all they support is a few of development boards. Try to ask them a real
> question. Nnot about installing, but instability in your product for
> example. All you'r going to hear is "but it works on a development
> board" .
>

Brain slippage. Phoenix makes the BIOS. It runs MontaVista Linux (as
well as Windows--out of the question for the proposed application, and
SuSE and RedHat--plausible, but not the names I've heard). Sounds like
you've had some unpleasant first hand experience.

>
>>I suspect Sony already has MontaVista on board; anybody know for
>>sure?
>
>
> on board ? you mean they go fishing together ? :-)
>

Montavista has done some kind of substantial deals recently with Sony.
It's not important enough for me to want to do the research. I thought
someone might know whether they were related to PS3.

RM

Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote :

> Brain slippage. Phoenix makes the BIOS.

to this date, only XBOX has an ordinary bios, the rest of the world
runs rather normal firmware and boots instantly. I see no reason for
Sony to make additional hassle of booting OS from hdd/cd/whatever.

> It runs MontaVista Linux
> (as well as Windows--out of the question for the proposed
> application, and SuSE and RedHat--plausible, but not the names I've
> heard). Sounds like you've had some unpleasant first hand
> experience.

Lets just say that your'r gonna get more spetializet support on
newsgroups than from MontaVista.

> Montavista has done some kind of substantial deals recently with
> Sony. It's not important enough for me to want to do the research.
> I thought someone might know whether they were related to PS3.

PS2 Linux was based on Kondara (based on RedHat). MontaVista is
specialising in embedded market while PS2 and propably PS3 are full
blown computers with MMU and all.


Pozdrawiam.
--
RusH //
http://pulse.pdi.net/~rush/qv30/
Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

RusH wrote:
> Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote :
>
>
>>Brain slippage. Phoenix makes the BIOS.
>
>
> to this date, only XBOX has an ordinary bios, the rest of the world
> runs rather normal firmware and boots instantly. I see no reason for
> Sony to make additional hassle of booting OS from hdd/cd/whatever.
>

Of course not. The Phoenix BIOS can run Linux stand-alone. It's been a
while since I looked at it, but it would give you a basic web-surfing
computer running on firmware. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear
that there is other firmware to do the same thing.

<snip>

>
>>Montavista has done some kind of substantial deals recently with
>>Sony. It's not important enough for me to want to do the research.
>>I thought someone might know whether they were related to PS3.
>
>
> PS2 Linux was based on Kondara (based on RedHat). MontaVista is
> specialising in embedded market while PS2 and propably PS3 are full
> blown computers with MMU and all.
>

I'm plainly not a game box hacker. What's got my interest is the
potential for causing serious problems for M$. Aside from the fact that
it wouldn't make me particularly unhappy to see it happen, I can't
really identify anything that stops it from happening.

Were such a thing to happen, it would be the biggest earthquake to hit
computing since the IBM PC. Whether it's Phoenix/MontaVista or someone
else, the full functionality exists, and it requires only a compelling
product to turn it into big trouble for Wintel. A Cell-equipped Sony TV
could be the next IBM PC.

RM

Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote :


> Of course not. The Phoenix BIOS can run Linux stand-alone. It's
> been a while since I looked at it, but it would give you a basic
> web-surfing computer running on firmware. I wouldn't be at all
> surprised to hear that there is other firmware to do the same thing.

I dont get it, Linux itself can boot from the very power on. Linuxbios
for example. Plus on embedded platform you dont use bloat like Phoenix,
but specialised bootloaders developed by SoC/CPU manufacturers (that will
be Sony here :P). The OS is loaded from flash to ram or just XiP.

> I'm plainly not a game box hacker. What's got my interest is the
> potential for causing serious problems for M$.

what ? instant boot ? naaa, you can buy 2000$ Solid state ram based HDD
and boot XP in just 3 seconds

> Aside from the fact
> that it wouldn't make me particularly unhappy to see it happen, I
> can't really identify anything that stops it from happening.

That would be Microsoft itselfe

> compelling product to turn it into big trouble for Wintel. A
> Cell-equipped Sony TV could be the next IBM PC.

I'm perfectly happy with my 3 old year Toshiba laptop running Linux, few
millions are happy with theyr Apples, and Microsoft is a happy monopoly
owner

Pozdrawiam.
--
RusH //
http://pulse.pdi.net/~rush/qv30/
Like ninjas, true hackers are shrouded in secrecy and mystery.
You may never know -- UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE.

RusH wrote:

> Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote :

<snip>

>
>>I'm plainly not a game box hacker. What's got my interest is the
>>potential for causing serious problems for M$.
>
>
> what ? instant boot ? naaa, you can buy 2000$ Solid state ram based HDD
> and boot XP in just 3 seconds
>

I guess that's why everybody owns a setup like that right now. :-).

Are you currently administering one or more XP boxes? Getting computer
owners to administer Windows boxes properly is nearly impossible.
Owners of "TV's with computer functionality" won't even know what you're
talking about.

You bring a TV home from Best Buy, plug it in, hook it up to the net,
and away you go. That's all you can expect from an owner of a "TV with
computer functionality." Anybody who can make a fully functional box
work safely that way will have as a customer all those who can't cope
with any more _and_ all those who could cope with more but are sick of
it. There are some non-trivial issues with security to be solved, but I
am assuming that Sony (or IBM) will be able to solve them.

>
>> Aside from the fact
>>that it wouldn't make me particularly unhappy to see it happen, I
>>can't really identify anything that stops it from happening.
>
>
> That would be Microsoft itselfe
>

They certainly will try.

>
>>compelling product to turn it into big trouble for Wintel. A
>>Cell-equipped Sony TV could be the next IBM PC.
>
>
> I'm perfectly happy with my 3 old year Toshiba laptop running Linux, few
> millions are happy with theyr Apples, and Microsoft is a happy monopoly
> owner
>

Uh-huh. And DEC is IBM's up-and-coming competitor. Things change.
It's true: Microsoft has a cash war chest like the world has never seen.
They may need it.

Sony/Toshiba/IBM has this chip into which they have sunk billions aimed
at the consumer marketplace . If they're not thinking of how much more
money they could be making if they could shove aside Microsoft and
Intel, something is wrong. If they're assuming that the world will
happily leave a profitable slot for Cell in the midst of x86 and Power,
they're alot more naive than I think.

What we're talking about is what Gates has been worried about ever since
Mosaic and Netscape. Who needs an email and wordprocessing machine that
has to be administered when you could have a portal to exciting content
that does everything you need to do without the misery? Whoever sells
the portal has first crack at selling the content, which will be aimed
at the specific platform and immensely profitable.

RM