I have been somewhat disappointed with the Radeon 9700 and 9800 pros that I
have as although they are very fast, they have always had choppy frames or
stuttering. The Catalyst 3.8's have completely smoothed out the rendering
in games and benchmarks. They are not faster for me, just very smooth. My
Geforce 4 was very smooth but of course, not as fast. Finally the best of
both worlds. Anyone else notice this?

> Anyone else notice this?

no

Actually... No, I haven't.

You know it really disturbs me that there is such an inconsistency between
various people's experiences with CAT drivers. I love the 9800 Pro's
hardware, and when it's being driven correctly it flys... however, the CAT
drivers, whether it be 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, whatever... do not compare to the
detonator drivers in terms of quality, consistency, and ease of use.

God damn it ATI, get your act together and leverage your powerful hardware
with some decent drivers. And next time... FIX more things than you BREAK
with a CAT release

--
Tony DiMarzio
(E-Mail Removed)
(E-Mail Removed)


"Craig" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:0iLib.1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have been somewhat disappointed with the Radeon 9700 and 9800 pros that
I
> have as although they are very fast, they have always had choppy frames or
> stuttering. The Catalyst 3.8's have completely smoothed out the rendering
> in games and benchmarks. They are not faster for me, just very smooth.
My
> Geforce 4 was very smooth but of course, not as fast. Finally the best of
> both worlds. Anyone else notice this?
>
>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:20:37 -0400, "Tony DiMarzio"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> And next time... FIX more things than you BREAK
>with a CAT release

You got that right! These CAT 3.8 drivers are NFG with Il-2-FB. Some
of us still like flightsims ATI!

> You know it really disturbs me that there is such an inconsistency between
> various people's experiences with CAT drivers. I love the 9800 Pro's
> hardware, and when it's being driven correctly it flys... however, the CAT
> drivers, whether it be 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, whatever... do not compare to the
> detonator drivers in terms of quality, consistency, and ease of use.
>
> God damn it ATI, get your act together and leverage your powerful hardware
> with some decent drivers. And next time... FIX more things than you BREAK
> with a CAT release

hmmmm ... Ive never had any probs with ATi drivers ... Cat's or even their
old, pre-cat drivers.

I do perfer the Cats over their old drivers. And nVidia Dets are not exactly
doing so well at the moment. (and imho, have never been as good as everyone
claims)

"And nVidia Dets are not exactly
> doing so well at the moment."

- Set aside any image quality or Pixel shader issues that the most recent
incarnations of the DET drivers might have. You still have a plethora of
driver releases to fall back on that work almost flawlessly (that's peace of
mind). However, the bugs that afflict CAT drivers often result in a game
simply not being playable.

Also the fact that you've "never had any probs with ATi drivers ... Cat's or
even their
> old, pre-cat drivers." just reaffirms the inconsistency between the
customers personal experiences with the drivers. Something is very flaky
somewhere.

--
Tony DiMarzio
(E-Mail Removed)
(E-Mail Removed)
"N. T." <r4ncid@ms*NOSPAM*n.com> wrote in message
news:U6Uib.197977$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > You know it really disturbs me that there is such an inconsistency
between
> > various people's experiences with CAT drivers. I love the 9800 Pro's
> > hardware, and when it's being driven correctly it flys... however, the
CAT
> > drivers, whether it be 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, whatever... do not compare to the
> > detonator drivers in terms of quality, consistency, and ease of use.
> >
> > God damn it ATI, get your act together and leverage your powerful
hardware
> > with some decent drivers. And next time... FIX more things than you
BREAK
> > with a CAT release
>
> hmmmm ... Ive never had any probs with ATi drivers ... Cat's or even their
> old, pre-cat drivers.
>
> I do perfer the Cats over their old drivers. And nVidia Dets are not
exactly
> doing so well at the moment. (and imho, have never been as good as
everyone
> claims)
>
>

some of this is soft mods and hard mods.....some posters won't say that's what they've done, as it leads automatically to their
botched mod. maybe not the majority But there is a good %


"Tony DiMarzio" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:M-SdnfjZDIJfhRGiU-(E-Mail Removed)...
> "And nVidia Dets are not exactly
> > doing so well at the moment."
>
> - Set aside any image quality or Pixel shader issues that the most recent
> incarnations of the DET drivers might have. You still have a plethora of
> driver releases to fall back on that work almost flawlessly (that's peace of
> mind). However, the bugs that afflict CAT drivers often result in a game
> simply not being playable.
>
> Also the fact that you've "never had any probs with ATi drivers ... Cat's or
> even their
> > old, pre-cat drivers." just reaffirms the inconsistency between the
> customers personal experiences with the drivers. Something is very flaky
> somewhere.
>
> --
> Tony DiMarzio
> (E-Mail Removed)
> (E-Mail Removed)
> "N. T." <r4ncid@ms*NOSPAM*n.com> wrote in message
> news:U6Uib.197977$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > You know it really disturbs me that there is such an inconsistency
> between
> > > various people's experiences with CAT drivers. I love the 9800 Pro's
> > > hardware, and when it's being driven correctly it flys... however, the
> CAT
> > > drivers, whether it be 3.6, 3.7, 3.8, whatever... do not compare to the
> > > detonator drivers in terms of quality, consistency, and ease of use.
> > >
> > > God damn it ATI, get your act together and leverage your powerful
> hardware
> > > with some decent drivers. And next time... FIX more things than you
> BREAK
> > > with a CAT release
> >
> > hmmmm ... Ive never had any probs with ATi drivers ... Cat's or even their
> > old, pre-cat drivers.
> >
> > I do perfer the Cats over their old drivers. And nVidia Dets are not
> exactly
> > doing so well at the moment. (and imho, have never been as good as
> everyone
> > claims)
> >
> >
>
>

> - Set aside any image quality or Pixel shader issues that the most recent
> incarnations of the DET drivers might have. You still have a plethora of
> driver releases to fall back on that work almost flawlessly (that's peace
of
> mind).

The same can be said about the Cats's ... the only thing I can see that's
bad about them is that one release something is borked and in the next
release they fix that and bork something else ... which leads me to:

> However, the bugs that afflict CAT drivers often result in a game
> simply not being playable.

I dont play a wide enough variety of games to notice this - and I base my
graphics choices more on my desktop apps than my 3d games. And for 2d work,
nVidia has always been inferior to ATi no matter the driver issues. I love
ATi's crisp 2d over nVidia's washed out, almost blurry 2d.

To be fair, I have owned only one nVidia product and that was when I borked
my old SiS card (this was a few years ago lol) and I bought a TNT 2 to
replace it. I could not get the thing to even install. Took it back and
traded it for a Voodoo3 card (now there was driver support for ya - I miss
3dfx) - after the V3 I got a V5500 and then a Radeon64 vivo. Since the Rad64
I have enver looked back. I do have a friend who swore by nVidia (traded his
GeForce cards in every time they had a new card come out) until he started
having issues with Det drivers (mostly that good ol Infinite Loop prob) ...
he recently picked up a Rad9600 and loves it drivers and all.

To each their own I guess ... the graphics companies make their coin off
this kind of rivalry ....

> Also the fact that you've "never had any probs with ATi drivers ... Cat's
or
> even their
> > old, pre-cat drivers." just reaffirms the inconsistency between the
> customers personal experiences with the drivers. Something is very flaky
> somewhere.

At least they are on top of Cat updates though. Before they started with the
unified drivers us ATi supporters had to wait 6 - 7 months before a driver
update would show ...

Getting it RIGHT would be no carry over quirks and defects, this is NOT the case, this is a case of 'closer' to getting it right. I
could do very well without ?easylook?(that name doesn't fit). and 'shaders'(can you record using shaders? hell no, so the point of
that would be?) I haven't used any other cards after diamond left the market. ATI has been my only card of choice.....they have
never gotten it RIGHT.....that is to say without DX problems and the like. I will not go down the N path as I have gotten used to
the ATI quirks I would hate to begin from ground zero again.

"Craig" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:0iLib.1$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have been somewhat disappointed with the Radeon 9700 and 9800 pros that I
> have as although they are very fast, they have always had choppy frames or
> stuttering. The Catalyst 3.8's have completely smoothed out the rendering
> in games and benchmarks. They are not faster for me, just very smooth. My
> Geforce 4 was very smooth but of course, not as fast. Finally the best of
> both worlds. Anyone else notice this?
>
>

you said:

>dont play a wide enough variety of games to notice this - and I base my
> graphics choices more on my desktop apps than my 3d games. And for 2d
work,
> nVidia has always been inferior to ATi no matter the driver issues. I love
> ATi's crisp 2d over nVidia's washed out, almost blurry 2d.

So speaking of 2d.... Have you ever heard of game called Subspace? or better
known now as Continuum? It is an old style top-down 2d scrolling Massively
Online Multiplayer space shooter. It uses directdraw to accelerate the 2d
affects. Since the voodoo3 I have enjoyed frame rates steady at 100fps
1024x768. I had no issues with any of my nvidia cards, and up until cat 3.8
no issues with my ati card. Well... all good things must come to an end...
especially when it comes to CAT driver updates. In comes 3.8 and down goes
frame rates to 8-10fps in Continuum. Thanks ATI.

--
Tony DiMarzio
(E-Mail Removed)
(E-Mail Removed)
"N. T." <r4ncid@ms*NOSPAM*n.com> wrote in message
news:X1Vib.330792$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > - Set aside any image quality or Pixel shader issues that the most
recent
> > incarnations of the DET drivers might have. You still have a plethora of
> > driver releases to fall back on that work almost flawlessly (that's
peace
> of
> > mind).
>
> The same can be said about the Cats's ... the only thing I can see that's
> bad about them is that one release something is borked and in the next
> release they fix that and bork something else ... which leads me to:
>
> > However, the bugs that afflict CAT drivers often result in a game
> > simply not being playable.
>
> I dont play a wide enough variety of games to notice this - and I base my
> graphics choices more on my desktop apps than my 3d games. And for 2d
work,
> nVidia has always been inferior to ATi no matter the driver issues. I love
> ATi's crisp 2d over nVidia's washed out, almost blurry 2d.
>
> To be fair, I have owned only one nVidia product and that was when I
borked
> my old SiS card (this was a few years ago lol) and I bought a TNT 2 to
> replace it. I could not get the thing to even install. Took it back and
> traded it for a Voodoo3 card (now there was driver support for ya - I miss
> 3dfx) - after the V3 I got a V5500 and then a Radeon64 vivo. Since the
Rad64
> I have enver looked back. I do have a friend who swore by nVidia (traded
his
> GeForce cards in every time they had a new card come out) until he started
> having issues with Det drivers (mostly that good ol Infinite Loop prob)
....
> he recently picked up a Rad9600 and loves it drivers and all.
>
> To each their own I guess ... the graphics companies make their coin off
> this kind of rivalry ....
>
> > Also the fact that you've "never had any probs with ATi drivers ...
Cat's
> or
> > even their
> > > old, pre-cat drivers." just reaffirms the inconsistency between the
> > customers personal experiences with the drivers. Something is very flaky
> > somewhere.
>
> At least they are on top of Cat updates though. Before they started with
the
> unified drivers us ATi supporters had to wait 6 - 7 months before a driver
> update would show ...
>
>