x-posted to rec.photo.digital

Evening All,

About a week ago I was asking about printers and the consensus /
recommendation was for the Canon i9900. Found one in-stock today at a local
store so I brought it home with me this evening and started playing with it
(belated Christmas gift...;-).

Although I have some matte and glossy papers the Cannon came with a small
sample pack of Photo Paper Pro and what a difference it makes! My problem
now is the typical color management one but here's an oddity for you. I use
PS CS and have an LCD monitor which was set using the Adobe Gamma setup.
Prior to getting this printer, I would edit my prints using the standard
Adobe profile (default setting) and my camera is set for the Adobe profile.
I would burn the files to a CD and off to my local photo shop where the
owner has a dye-sub printer ($500 variety but I don't recall the name of
it). Whenever he prints my 8x10's he uses PS v7 and the imbedded profile in
the files I gave him. Pictures have come out spot on. I can hold an 8x10
print from him up to my screen and if there's any difference, I can't tell
you what it is.

So now enters the Canon i9900 which uses dye inks, I'm using the Canon
glossy paper and the same Adobe profile and the prints are not even close.
Canon has several profiles to select from (PR1, PR2, MP1, SP2 and several
Adobe plus some others) and I tried all but SP2 - ran out of paper
tonight.....

So without a Spyder monitor / printer calibration (or other model) what is
the drill here to start narrowing down the difference? Not everyone in the
world uses a monitor calibrator, and they get their prints to match their
monitor - somehow. Trial and error but where do I start? I need a test
photo from my printer that I can then hold up to my monitor and adjust and
I'm assuming that must be a standard of some sort that I should be able to
download and print straight from a file without any adjustments - no?

I'll be checking the Canon site tomorrow as well as the many Help files but
knowing that probably a few of you have been down this road once or twice,
you just might have some sage advice to pass along.

Appreciate your help,

Bob S.

BobS wrote:

> x-posted to rec.photo.digital
>
> Evening All,
>
> About a week ago I was asking about printers and the consensus /
> recommendation was for the Canon i9900. Found one in-stock today at a local
> store so I brought it home with me this evening and started playing with it
> (belated Christmas gift...;-).
>
> Although I have some matte and glossy papers the Cannon came with a small
> sample pack of Photo Paper Pro and what a difference it makes! My problem
> now is the typical color management one but here's an oddity for you. I use
> PS CS and have an LCD monitor which was set using the Adobe Gamma setup.
> Prior to getting this printer, I would edit my prints using the standard
> Adobe profile (default setting) and my camera is set for the Adobe profile.
> I would burn the files to a CD and off to my local photo shop where the
> owner has a dye-sub printer ($500 variety but I don't recall the name of
> it). Whenever he prints my 8x10's he uses PS v7 and the imbedded profile in
> the files I gave him. Pictures have come out spot on. I can hold an 8x10
> print from him up to my screen and if there's any difference, I can't tell
> you what it is.
>
> So now enters the Canon i9900 which uses dye inks, I'm using the Canon
> glossy paper and the same Adobe profile and the prints are not even close.
> Canon has several profiles to select from (PR1, PR2, MP1, SP2 and several
> Adobe plus some others) and I tried all but SP2 - ran out of paper
> tonight.....
>
> So without a Spyder monitor / printer calibration (or other model) what is
> the drill here to start narrowing down the difference? Not everyone in the
> world uses a monitor calibrator, and they get their prints to match their
> monitor - somehow. Trial and error but where do I start? I need a test
> photo from my printer that I can then hold up to my monitor and adjust and
> I'm assuming that must be a standard of some sort that I should be able to
> download and print straight from a file without any adjustments - no?
>
> I'll be checking the Canon site tomorrow as well as the many Help files but
> knowing that probably a few of you have been down this road once or twice,
> you just might have some sage advice to pass along.
>
> Appreciate your help,
>
> Bob S.
>
>
I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it by
starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some test
prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test prints I
found most helpful is http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx

Bernie

Thank you to all that responded. Did *a lot* of reading and searching the
web and in the end, I got a ColorVision colorimeter to end the frustration
and wasting of materials. Just finished about an hour ago calibrating my
monitor and selecting the right profiles to use on the printer - and it
works now.

Lessons learned....

1. You may not need the hardware sensor to calibrate your monitor but it
does take the frustration out of the process. It did in 10 minutes what I
couldn't do in two days of putzin around wasting ink and paper.

2. The paper used makes a *significant* difference in the results achieved
and the cheap stuff is only good for snapshots.

3. After finally getting everything aligned / calibrated, the Canon i9900
certainly appears to live up to the reviews I've read and your comments.

4. Some of the ink cartridges for the i9900 (BCI-6) are not readily
available yet at the major stores (Best Buy, CompUSA) - missing the PM and
PC cartridges.

5. Quality paper is 'xpensive.....!

Again, thanks for your help - greatly appreciated,

Bob S.



"BobS" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:E24Ad.46577$(E-Mail Removed)...
> x-posted to rec.photo.digital
>
> Evening All,
>
> About a week ago I was asking about printers and the consensus /
> recommendation was for the Canon i9900. Found one in-stock today at a
local
> store so I brought it home with me this evening and started playing with
it
> (belated Christmas gift...;-).
>
> Although I have some matte and glossy papers the Cannon came with a small
> sample pack of Photo Paper Pro and what a difference it makes! My problem
> now is the typical color management one but here's an oddity for you. I
use
> PS CS and have an LCD monitor which was set using the Adobe Gamma setup.
> Prior to getting this printer, I would edit my prints using the standard
> Adobe profile (default setting) and my camera is set for the Adobe
profile.
> I would burn the files to a CD and off to my local photo shop where the
> owner has a dye-sub printer ($500 variety but I don't recall the name of
> it). Whenever he prints my 8x10's he uses PS v7 and the imbedded profile
in
> the files I gave him. Pictures have come out spot on. I can hold an 8x10
> print from him up to my screen and if there's any difference, I can't tell
> you what it is.
>
> So now enters the Canon i9900 which uses dye inks, I'm using the Canon
> glossy paper and the same Adobe profile and the prints are not even close.
> Canon has several profiles to select from (PR1, PR2, MP1, SP2 and several
> Adobe plus some others) and I tried all but SP2 - ran out of paper
> tonight.....
>
> So without a Spyder monitor / printer calibration (or other model) what is
> the drill here to start narrowing down the difference? Not everyone in
the
> world uses a monitor calibrator, and they get their prints to match their
> monitor - somehow. Trial and error but where do I start? I need a test
> photo from my printer that I can then hold up to my monitor and adjust and
> I'm assuming that must be a standard of some sort that I should be able to
> download and print straight from a file without any adjustments - no?
>
> I'll be checking the Canon site tomorrow as well as the many Help files
but
> knowing that probably a few of you have been down this road once or twice,
> you just might have some sage advice to pass along.
>
> Appreciate your help,
>
> Bob S.
>
>

BobS wrote:

> Thank you to all that responded. Did *a lot* of reading and searching the
> web and in the end, I got a ColorVision colorimeter to end the frustration
> and wasting of materials. Just finished about an hour ago calibrating my
> monitor and selecting the right profiles to use on the printer - and it
> works now.
>
> Lessons learned....
>
> 1. You may not need the hardware sensor to calibrate your monitor but it
> does take the frustration out of the process. It did in 10 minutes what I
> couldn't do in two days of putzin around wasting ink and paper.
>
> 2. The paper used makes a *significant* difference in the results achieved
> and the cheap stuff is only good for snapshots.
>
> 3. After finally getting everything aligned / calibrated, the Canon i9900
> certainly appears to live up to the reviews I've read and your comments.
>
> 4. Some of the ink cartridges for the i9900 (BCI-6) are not readily
> available yet at the major stores (Best Buy, CompUSA) - missing the PM and
> PC cartridges.
>
> 5. Quality paper is 'xpensive.....!
>
> Again, thanks for your help - greatly appreciated,

Bob -

I just got the Colorvision ColorPlus spyder kit (the cheapie). I haven't
done the process yet, but I have been reading a lot about color
management, trying to understand it.

Just reading the instructions for the ColorPlus, it is not clear to me
what this has to do with color. They have you adjusting contrast and
brightness, but it says nothing about color. What is happening here? Is
the ColorPlus spyder the same one that you have? They are all
colorimeters, right? So what is the mechanism that gets the color right?

And how do you set the printer's profile?

Gary Eickmeier

Bernie wrote:

> I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it by
> starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some test
> prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test prints I
> found most helpful is http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx
>
> Bernie

Gorgeous! I will make good use of that one!

Gary Eickmeier

Bernie wrote:

> I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it by
> starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some test
> prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test prints I
> found most helpful is http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx

Well, I just tried to open it, and it isn't recognized by Elements 3.0.
What the hell is an .hqx file, and how did it get that way?

Gary Eickmeier

Gary Eickmeier wrote:

>
> I just got the Colorvision ColorPlus spyder kit (the cheapie). I haven't
> done the process yet, but I have been reading a lot about color
> management, trying to understand it.
>
> Just reading the instructions for the ColorPlus, it is not clear to me
> what this has to do with color. They have you adjusting contrast and
> brightness, but it says nothing about color. What is happening here? Is
> the ColorPlus spyder the same one that you have? They are all
> colorimeters, right? So what is the mechanism that gets the color right?
>
> And how do you set the printer's profile?


I have the Spyder 2 and basically you just follow their directions, with
the thingie plugged into a USB port.

It creates a monitor profile and stores it in the Library on a Mac with
osX.

Printing profiles are different kettles. I use canned profiles; don't
intend on making a custom one for a bit.

--
John McWilliams

"Gary Eickmeier" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:FYqAd.154731$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> Bernie wrote:
>
>> I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do
>> it by starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing
>> some test prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the
>> test prints I found most helpful is
>> http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx
>
> Well, I just tried to open it, and it isn't recognized by Elements
> 3.0.

..hqx is a Mac format ... to get the plain jpg: copy that link, paste
it into a browser, delete the .hqx

Gary,

From a very simplistic knowledge base (mine), I'll attempt to explain what I
think I've learned over the past few days. Trust me, color management is
complicated and there is a whole industry built around making products and
furnishing services (making printer profiles) for this.

This may not be correct but it helps me justify spending all this money on a
few toys for my hobby....;-)

Yes, I have the same version of the spyder you have - it was the only one
available locally and while I would have liked to get the latest model, this
one appears to work fine. You initially set your monitor to it's default
settings and remove any color profiles for your monitor (such as Adobe's
Gamma) prior to doing the alignment. Also be sure there is no other light
sources hitting your screen - turn off all the lights.

Once the ColorVision software is installed, you then connect the sensor and
position it over the square indicated on the screen. For the next 10
minutes, the software cycles thru many variations of red, green and blue,
building a monitor profile that meets a *standard* and sets the color
temperature to 6500° Kelvin (bright daylight). Now I'm using the term
standard rather loosely here since I don't know which standard it is and I
simply did not research it.

After calibrating your monitor, it stores the profile and it is the one
called during your computer startup process. Now when you look at a photo
on your monitor, all the colors should be the proper shade and hue (well,
almost...at this price point I doubt it's 100%).

So how does this equate to getting your printer to match what you now see on
your screen? Your printer has preset profiles that are based on a number of
variables (inks, papers, monitor and other profiles). You can tell the
printer software about the type of paper you're using (matte, glossy,
high-gloss, etc.) and you can also select from a listing of preset profiles
(Adobe presets, the one you just made using the ColorVison, and a host of
others) or you can make manual adjustments. If you select the one you just
made from your monitor calibration, then when it prints the photo, it should
be real close to what you see on your screen.

It will not be 100% but it will be so close it won't matter probably and if
it does, you can tweak the settings manually depending on your printer
software/driver. One significant point - the type of paper you use makes a
big difference in the quality of the photo printed. I was amazed at the
difference the Canon paper had over the GP paper I also have. The picture
leaped off the paper with the Canon paper in comparison. Difference in
gloss levels and whatever else but it sure made a huge difference.

Now the guru's can leap in here and totally tear my explanation apart and
tell you the real reason this magic smoke works.... but that's my story, it
works for me and if it's not broke any more, I sure as hell am not going to
tweak it - until next week anyway........;-)

Bob S.



"Gary Eickmeier" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:lcqAd.193444$(E-Mail Removed)...


>
> I just got the Colorvision ColorPlus spyder kit (the cheapie). I haven't
> done the process yet, but I have been reading a lot about color
> management, trying to understand it.
>
> Just reading the instructions for the ColorPlus, it is not clear to me
> what this has to do with color. They have you adjusting contrast and
> brightness, but it says nothing about color. What is happening here? Is
> the ColorPlus spyder the same one that you have? They are all
> colorimeters, right? So what is the mechanism that gets the color right?
>
> And how do you set the printer's profile?
>
> Gary Eickmeier

Gary Eickmeier wrote:
>
>
> Bernie wrote:
>
>> I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it
>> by starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some
>> test prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test
>> prints I found most helpful is
>> http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx
>>
>> Bernie
>
>
> Gorgeous! I will make good use of that one!
>
> Gary Eickmeier
Sorry, hadn't noticed that. On my Windows system, with both Mozilla or
Netscape as the browser, it opens. But not with Internet Explorer.
But here is a version that should work for you:
http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer%20Test%20file.jpg

Bernie