In other words you couldn't delete it until you logged off and back or
or until you rebooted the machine? Something must have had an open
handle on the folder.

John

legg wrote:

> Recent migration to W2K SP4 had me moving/sorting
> files and folders. After a folder was emptied, I
> could not delete it, as administrator, until the
> next day.
>
> What's going on?
>
> RL

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> I recall having the same problem with re-naming
> recently moved folders, hence the 'empty' ones
> with the wrong names, needing deletion.
>
> Same question.....what's going on?

How did you delete/rename? If you used a command prompt, did you close
the prompt or at least CD to another directory? As John John mentioned,
something was probably holding something in the directory, or the
directory itself, open. I've found Outlook can do that when you save or
read attatchments, especially if Word is your editor, and not just the
built-in editor.

There are several process explorer style programs you can use to check
open handles, and find out what program is blocking the directory or
file(s) from being deleted.

If you have a network share to your computer, you can look in Computer
Management to see what files are open on your shared directories.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross

Recent migration to W2K SP4 had me moving/sorting
files and folders. After a folder was emptied, I
could not delete it, as administrator, until the
next day.

What's going on?

RL

I recall having the same problem with re-naming
recently moved folders, hence the 'empty' ones
with the wrong names, needing deletion.

Same question.....what's going on?

RL

Adjust your clock, you're posting in the future.

As mentioned by Andrew, the application that you use to rename or delete
files may be keeping an open handle on the files or folders. Tools like
OH.exe, Handle or Process Explorer can reveal the handles.

Process Explorer for Windows v10.21
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...sExplorer.mspx

Handle v3.20
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...ds/Handle.mspx

Open Handles (oh.exe): This command-line tool shows the handles of all
open windows. The tool can also be used to show only information that
relates to a specific process, object type, or object name. To download
this tool, click the following link:
http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...s/oh_setup.exe

Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en

John

legg wrote:

> I recall having the same problem with re-naming
> recently moved folders, hence the 'empty' ones
> with the wrong names, needing deletion.
>
> Same question.....what's going on?
>
> RL

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:50:58 -0300, John John
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Adjust your clock, you're posting in the future.

Eastern Daylight Savings Time...seems to check out
from this end, and on all message time stamps.

>
>As mentioned by Andrew, the application that you use to rename or delete
>files may be keeping an open handle on the files or folders. Tools like
>OH.exe, Handle or Process Explorer can reveal the handles.
>
>Process Explorer for Windows v10.21
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...sExplorer.mspx
>
>Handle v3.20
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...ds/Handle.mspx
>
>Open Handles (oh.exe): This command-line tool shows the handles of all
>open windows. The tool can also be used to show only information that
>relates to a specific process, object type, or object name. To download
>this tool, click the following link:
>http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...s/oh_setup.exe
>
>Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools
>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
>

No special processes being used. Just explorer.

Will give the recommended tools a try.

Checking permissions was the first thing I tried.
This thing is not yet on a network; there are no
users set up, save the administrator and no
sharing has been assigned.

No such trouble on the machine the files
originated from (via hard disk temporary
relocation), and in many specific cases these
were/are new folders and files created for
updating hardware drivers.

Thanks.

legg wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:50:58 -0300, John John
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Adjust your clock, you're posting in the future.
>
>
> Eastern Daylight Savings Time...seems to check out
> from this end, and on all message time stamps.

Hmmm. Looking at it from this ends it appears that Andrew and I have
replied to your posts before you even asked a question or reported a
problem! I replied to your 10:32AM post at 9:40AM and Andrew replied to
your 10:37AM post at 10:02AM, I may have to check my crystal ball to see
if it's cracked...


> No special processes being used. Just explorer.
>
> Will give the recommended tools a try.
>
> Checking permissions was the first thing I tried.
> This thing is not yet on a network; there are no
> users set up, save the administrator and no
> sharing has been assigned.
>
> No such trouble on the machine the files
> originated from (via hard disk temporary
> relocation), and in many specific cases these
> were/are new folders and files created for
> updating hardware drivers.

Checking the permissions was a good troubleshooting measure but being
that you can delete the folders after a reboot I don't think that this
is a permissions issue, your investigation seems to have confirmed this.

John

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:50:58 -0300, John John
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Adjust your clock, you're posting in the future.
>
>As mentioned by Andrew, the application that you use to rename or delete
>files may be keeping an open handle on the files or folders. Tools like
>OH.exe, Handle or Process Explorer can reveal the handles.
>
>Process Explorer for Windows v10.21
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...sExplorer.mspx
>
>Handle v3.20
>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...ds/Handle.mspx
>
>Open Handles (oh.exe): This command-line tool shows the handles of all
>open windows. The tool can also be used to show only information that
>relates to a specific process, object type, or object name. To download
>this tool, click the following link:
>http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...s/oh_setup.exe
>
>Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools
>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
>
I'd updated the time displayed, manually. Have
just run the DST patch. Perhaps this helps time
stamps. My news agent may have a mind of its own.

Running SysInternal's Process Explorer reveals no
handles.

Folders whose contents are emptied/transferred can
still not be deleted, until reboot.

I disabled some Seagate acronis disk imaging tools
that were hovering in the background, without
effect. Open processes are listed below.

RL

Process PID CPU Description Company
Name
System Idle Process 0 98.44
Interrupts n/a 1.56 Hardware
Interrupts
DPCs n/a Deferred Procedure Calls
System 8
SMSS.EXE 384 Windows NT Session
Manager Microsoft Corporation
CSRSS.EXE 412 Client Server
Runtime Process Microsoft Corporation
WINLOGON.EXE 432 Windows NT Logon
Application Microsoft Corporation
SERVICES.EXE 460 Services
and Controller app Microsoft Corporation
svchost.exe 648 Generic
Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft
Corporation
spoolsv.exe 688 Spooler
SubSystem App Microsoft Corporation
schedul2.exe 716 Acronis
Scheduler 2 Acronis
svchost.exe 756 Generic
Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft
Corporation
FormatM.exe 788 MacOpener
Mac Formatter DataViz Inc.
nod32krn.exe 812 NOD32
Kernel Service Eset
nvsvc32.exe 872 NVIDIA
Driver Helper Service, Version 91.48 NVIDIA
Corporation
PERSFW.exe 884 Kerio Personal
Firewall Engine Kerio Technologies
regsvc.exe 564 Remote Registry
Service Microsoft Corporation
mstask.exe 932 Task Scheduler
Engine Microsoft Corporation
WinMgmt.exe 996 Windows
Management Instrumentation Microsoft
Corporation
svchost.exe 1072 Generic
Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft
Corporation
LSASS.EXE 472 LSA Executable and
Server DLL (Export Version) Microsoft
Corporation
procexp.exe 1324 Sysinternals
Process Explorer Sysinternals -
www.sysinternals.com
agent.exe 1680 Forte Agent Forte
Internet Software Inc.
explorer.exe 1292 Windows Explorer
Microsoft Corporation

legg wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:50:58 -0300, John John
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>Adjust your clock, you're posting in the future.
>>
>>As mentioned by Andrew, the application that you use to rename or delete
>>files may be keeping an open handle on the files or folders. Tools like
>>OH.exe, Handle or Process Explorer can reveal the handles.
>>
>>Process Explorer for Windows v10.21
>>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...sExplorer.mspx
>>
>>Handle v3.20
>>http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sys...ds/Handle.mspx
>>
>>Open Handles (oh.exe): This command-line tool shows the handles of all
>>open windows. The tool can also be used to show only information that
>>relates to a specific process, object type, or object name. To download
>>this tool, click the following link:
>>http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...s/oh_setup.exe
>>
>>Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools
>>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
>>
>
> I'd updated the time displayed, manually. Have
> just run the DST patch. Perhaps this helps time
> stamps. My news agent may have a mind of its own.
>
> Running SysInternal's Process Explorer reveals no
> handles.
>
> Folders whose contents are emptied/transferred can
> still not be deleted, until reboot.
>
> I disabled some Seagate acronis disk imaging tools
> that were hovering in the background, without
> effect. Open processes are listed below.
>
> RL
>
> Process PID CPU Description Company
> Name
> System Idle Process 0 98.44
> Interrupts n/a 1.56 Hardware
> Interrupts
> DPCs n/a Deferred Procedure Calls
> System 8
> SMSS.EXE 384 Windows NT Session
> Manager Microsoft Corporation
> CSRSS.EXE 412 Client Server
> Runtime Process Microsoft Corporation
> WINLOGON.EXE 432 Windows NT Logon
> Application Microsoft Corporation
> SERVICES.EXE 460 Services
> and Controller app Microsoft Corporation
> svchost.exe 648 Generic
> Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft
> Corporation
> spoolsv.exe 688 Spooler
> SubSystem App Microsoft Corporation
> schedul2.exe 716 Acronis
> Scheduler 2 Acronis
> svchost.exe 756 Generic
> Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft
> Corporation
> FormatM.exe 788 MacOpener
> Mac Formatter DataViz Inc.
> nod32krn.exe 812 NOD32
> Kernel Service Eset
> nvsvc32.exe 872 NVIDIA
> Driver Helper Service, Version 91.48 NVIDIA
> Corporation
> PERSFW.exe 884 Kerio Personal
> Firewall Engine Kerio Technologies
> regsvc.exe 564 Remote Registry
> Service Microsoft Corporation
> mstask.exe 932 Task Scheduler
> Engine Microsoft Corporation
> WinMgmt.exe 996 Windows
> Management Instrumentation Microsoft
> Corporation
> svchost.exe 1072 Generic
> Host Process for Win32 Services Microsoft
> Corporation
> LSASS.EXE 472 LSA Executable and
> Server DLL (Export Version) Microsoft
> Corporation
> procexp.exe 1324 Sysinternals
> Process Explorer Sysinternals -
> www.sysinternals.com
> agent.exe 1680 Forte Agent Forte
> Internet Software Inc.
> explorer.exe 1292 Windows Explorer
> Microsoft Corporation

What are these undeletable folders? What error messages are you getting
when you try to delete them? How about the Event Viewer, are any errors
showing in the logs?

How are you deleting the files and folders, with Explorer.exe or with
another application? Can you use the RD command at the command prompt
to delete the folders? If no what does the RD command return?

Try using the Task Manager and Kill Explorer.exe and its process tree,
then, using the File | New Task menu, restart Explorer.exe again and see
if you can delete the folders.

Try the other Handle tools on the actual folders to make sure that there
are no handles on the folders, try using OH.exe on the actual folder
instead of querying processes.

John

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:53:14 -0300, John John
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>
>What are these undeletable folders? What error messages are you getting
>when you try to delete them? How about the Event Viewer, are any errors
>showing in the logs?

It doesn't seem to matter what the folder is, or
where. (C:\, other drives, floppy) If I move its
non-executable (pdf txt doc etc) contents to a
renamed folder, the emptied folder cannot be
deleted or renamed, using the standard windows
explorer GUI. I am not opening the 'windows
explorer' process, just using the standard desktop
GUI, which is the explorer process listed in the
SysInt report.

>
>How are you deleting the files and folders, with Explorer.exe or with
>another application? Can you use the RD command at the command prompt
>to delete the folders? If no what does the RD command return?

The error message is "Cannot delete <folder name>:
There has been a sharing violation. The source or
destination file may be in use."

If I then move the original contents back into the
original folder, I am prevented from deleting the
now-empty new folder. If I attempt to move the
now-empty new folder to a new directory, I get the
same error message, but, strangely, the move is
completed. The empty folder can then be deleted
without errors.

I have used no command instructions and am
basically ignorant of all but the simplest
functions used in performing tasks off a boot
floppy.

>
>Try using the Task Manager and Kill Explorer.exe and its process tree,
>then, using the File | New Task menu, restart Explorer.exe again and see
>if you can delete the folders.
>
>Try the other Handle tools on the actual folders to make sure that there
>are no handles on the folders, try using OH.exe on the actual folder
>instead of querying processes.

Attempts to use the OH.exe resulted in rapid
display and termination of the dos window that
were unreadable and left no identifiable log
results.

TaskInfo.exe, normally resident on this machine,
sees innumerable handles associated with each
process, previously listed. How would one handle
be identified as having relevance to file
deletion, relocation or renaming processes?

RL