About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only third
party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into any option
from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen goes blue and the
machine reboots. I recently did a repair installation of XP and apart from
confusing the OS with some hardware and having to re-install a couple of
programs the safe mode problem remains.

Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the blue
screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once SP2 is added
this blue screen message is not shown.

Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and doing
a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with less effort? I
do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this would have been sensible?

Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you boot.

NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?

[[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on your
computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows boot files
are missing or damaged:
Ntldr
Ntdetect.com
Boot.ini ]]
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728

[[Cause:
Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is using
FAT32.
New hard disk drive being added.
Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm

[[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
• The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file system.
• The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This is a partition
larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the partition table).
• Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads (sides) value in the FAT32
BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match the geometry of the physical
drive. ]]
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057


Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492

Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual Booting
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233

You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397

HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728

Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862

"NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP Over
Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057

The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by Using
the Disk Management Tool
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261

Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
> decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
> third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
> any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen goes
> blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair installation of XP
> and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware and having to
> re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem remains.
>
> Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
> blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once SP2
> is added this blue screen message is not shown.
>
> Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
> doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with less
> effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this would have
> been sensible?

Thanks for the reply. After 1.5 years I have looked at most of the
assistance you have linked in. The main problem is they refer to the NTLDR
missing. Mine is not and the computer behaves perfectly in normal boot and
operation. It is only safe mode that has problems.

When I installed the OS it was to a clean new 60GB HDD formatted NTFS during
install. I used PQ Magic 8 to create 5 other logical drives for programs,
files games etc so the C:\ drive is for Windows "only" and any progrmas that
cannot install anywhere else. The other drives were created as FAT32 drives
so I ended up with windows installed on NTFS and the rest of the drive being
FAT32.

I then followed some "expert" advice that I was gaining nothing by having
the C:\ drive formatted NTFS and used Partion Magic 8 to convert from NTFS to
FAT32. After this there were a few changes to long file names and it appears
that at that point the Win installation "lost track" of the NTFS installation
- but only if trying to boot into anything after pressing F8 on startup.

The message is that NTLDR is less than expected - not that it is missing.
With SP2 installed the message does not appear at all - the machine merely
reboots from a blue screen when an option is selcted from Safe Mode boot
screen. The message was briefly spotted when trying safe mode after
re-installation of the XP CD which is, by the way, pre SP1 (i.e. very
original). In all normal start-ups and operation (including things like disc
check and PQ Magic that run before Windows starts when required) there is no
problem with the machine at all.

Re-installation of the same XP Home disc did not correct it since it seemed
to compare something on the CD with the installed files and merely pointed
out things were different. Re-installation went ahead but did not correct
the problem. Some hardware is now "incorrectly" identified like an on-board
AMR which the OS no longer accepts the motherboard CD drivers for (I got the
ones it wanted from the web so no big deal) and I installed a USB 2.0 PCI
card for which the OS will not accept all the maker's drivers for (had to
force it to accept the root hub drivers for the card to work again no big
deal). I think these minor hassles are merely a result of a re-installation
and a cheap USB card and that the OS is still working fine.

Rather than the hassle of a clean install would an upgrade to XP Pro help or
would it also decide my installation had changed since original install and
either fail or give the same problems?

Would copying anything from the XP disc to my HDD make any difference? Is
the NTLDR file installation specific or would copying it from the XP CD work?
Are there any other CD files (that are not installation specific of course)
that may be corrupted on the HDD that can be copied? For copying I have a
Win98 boot disk created on an entirely different machine if required.

By the way I have tried repairing from the XP CD recovery console with
fixboot and fixmbr with no diference. I have always run AVG, Zonealarm,
Spybot S&D and Adaware so the problem seems to remain an XP "recognition" one.

Any further help much appreciated - safe mode doesn't seem very important
until you realise how many fairly minor problems have to be fixed in safe
mode!

Thanks - Dave A



"Wesley Vogel" wrote:

> Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you boot.
>
> NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?
>
> [[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on your
> computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows boot files
> are missing or damaged:
> Ntldr
> Ntdetect.com
> Boot.ini ]]
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728
>
> [[Cause:
> Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
> Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
> Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
> Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
> Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is using
> FAT32.
> New hard disk drive being added.
> Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
> Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
> Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
> http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
>
> [[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
> • The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file system.
> • The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This is a partition
> larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the partition table).
> • Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads (sides) value in the FAT32
> BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match the geometry of the physical
> drive. ]]
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
>
>
> Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492
>
> Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual Booting
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233
>
> You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your Computer
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397
>
> HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows 2000
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728
>
> Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862
>
> "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP Over
> Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
>
> The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by Using
> the Disk Management Tool
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261
>
> Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433
>
> --
> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>
> Wes
> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>
> In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
> > decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
> > third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
> > any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen goes
> > blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair installation of XP
> > and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware and having to
> > re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem remains.
> >
> > Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
> > blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once SP2
> > is added this blue screen message is not shown.
> >
> > Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
> > doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with less
> > effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this would have
> > been sensible?
>
>

Situations in Which Windows May Not Start in Safe Mode
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/199175

There are no documents that match your search for "NTLDR is less than
expected"
http://support.microsoft.com/search/...mode=a&x=0&y=0

Your search - "NTLDR is less than expected" - did not match any documents.
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&n...s=&safe=images

Searched all groups Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "ntldr is less than expected
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off

As you can see from above, there are not too many folks with an error,
"NTLDR is less than expected". ntldr is missing or damaged are the usual
errors.

I do not know who the "expert" was, but I could guess.

You gained absolutely nothing by reformatting to FAT32. The only advantage
to having FAT32 is if you wanted to dual boot to some obsolete operating
system like Windows 95 OSR2 or Windows 98 or Windows Me.

An upgrade will probably not fix anything where a clean install might.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news:E5CC55E3-8F3C-4DB5-B952-(E-Mail Removed),
Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> Thanks for the reply. After 1.5 years I have looked at most of the
> assistance you have linked in. The main problem is they refer to the
> NTLDR missing. Mine is not and the computer behaves perfectly in normal
> boot and operation. It is only safe mode that has problems.
>
> When I installed the OS it was to a clean new 60GB HDD formatted NTFS
> during install. I used PQ Magic 8 to create 5 other logical drives for
> programs, files games etc so the C:\ drive is for Windows "only" and any
> progrmas that cannot install anywhere else. The other drives were
> created as FAT32 drives so I ended up with windows installed on NTFS and
> the rest of the drive being FAT32.
>
> I then followed some "expert" advice that I was gaining nothing by having
> the C:\ drive formatted NTFS and used Partion Magic 8 to convert from
> NTFS to FAT32. After this there were a few changes to long file names
> and it appears that at that point the Win installation "lost track" of
> the NTFS installation - but only if trying to boot into anything after
> pressing F8 on startup.
>
> The message is that NTLDR is less than expected - not that it is missing.
> With SP2 installed the message does not appear at all - the machine merely
> reboots from a blue screen when an option is selcted from Safe Mode boot
> screen. The message was briefly spotted when trying safe mode after
> re-installation of the XP CD which is, by the way, pre SP1 (i.e. very
> original). In all normal start-ups and operation (including things like
> disc check and PQ Magic that run before Windows starts when required)
> there is no problem with the machine at all.
>
> Re-installation of the same XP Home disc did not correct it since it
> seemed to compare something on the CD with the installed files and merely
> pointed out things were different. Re-installation went ahead but did
> not correct the problem. Some hardware is now "incorrectly" identified
> like an on-board AMR which the OS no longer accepts the motherboard CD
> drivers for (I got the ones it wanted from the web so no big deal) and I
> installed a USB 2.0 PCI card for which the OS will not accept all the
> maker's drivers for (had to force it to accept the root hub drivers for
> the card to work again no big deal). I think these minor hassles are
> merely a result of a re-installation and a cheap USB card and that the OS
> is still working fine.
>
> Rather than the hassle of a clean install would an upgrade to XP Pro help
> or would it also decide my installation had changed since original
> install and either fail or give the same problems?
>
> Would copying anything from the XP disc to my HDD make any difference? Is
> the NTLDR file installation specific or would copying it from the XP CD
> work? Are there any other CD files (that are not installation specific
> of course) that may be corrupted on the HDD that can be copied? For
> copying I have a Win98 boot disk created on an entirely different machine
> if required.
>
> By the way I have tried repairing from the XP CD recovery console with
> fixboot and fixmbr with no diference. I have always run AVG, Zonealarm,
> Spybot S&D and Adaware so the problem seems to remain an XP "recognition"
> one.
>
> Any further help much appreciated - safe mode doesn't seem very important
> until you realise how many fairly minor problems have to be fixed in safe
> mode!
>
> Thanks - Dave A
>
>
>
> "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
>
>> Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you boot.
>>
>> NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?
>>
>> [[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on your
>> computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows boot
>> files are missing or damaged:
>> Ntldr
>> Ntdetect.com
>> Boot.ini ]]
>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728
>>
>> [[Cause:
>> Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
>> Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
>> Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
>> Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
>> Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is using
>> FAT32.
>> New hard disk drive being added.
>> Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
>> Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
>> Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
>> http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
>>
>> [[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
>> • The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file system.
>> • The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This is a partition
>> larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the partition table).
>> • Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads (sides) value in the
>> FAT32 BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match the geometry of the
>> physical drive. ]]
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
>>
>>
>> Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492
>>
>> Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual
>> Booting http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233
>>
>> You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your
>> Computer http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397
>>
>> HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows 2000
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728
>>
>> Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862
>>
>> "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP
>> Over Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
>>
>> The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by
>> Using the Disk Management Tool
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261
>>
>> Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433
>>
>> --
>> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>>
>> Wes
>> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>>
>> In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
>> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>> About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
>>> decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
>>> third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
>>> any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen
>>> goes blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair
>>> installation of XP and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware
>>> and having to re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem
>>> remains.
>>>
>>> Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
>>> blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once SP2
>>> is added this blue screen message is not shown.
>>>
>>> Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
>>> doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with less
>>> effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this would have
>>> been sensible?

Hi Again Wes,

Looks like a clean install might be the only way to go. Would copying NTLDR
and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?

If I use the settings transfer wizard will it re-create all my profiles
(Users) on a clean installation? If I use the files transfer part of the
wizard I would be moving from the current 6 partitions
to the new one partition. Where does the wizard put the files since they
cannot go back to original places?

I presume it is easier to transfer settings only and copy files to other
media for transfer back later?

Thanks again

Dave A

"Wesley Vogel" wrote:

> Situations in Which Windows May Not Start in Safe Mode
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/199175
>
> There are no documents that match your search for "NTLDR is less than
> expected"
> http://support.microsoft.com/search/...mode=a&x=0&y=0
>
> Your search - "NTLDR is less than expected" - did not match any documents.
> http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&n...s=&safe=images
>
> Searched all groups Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "ntldr is less than expected
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
>
> As you can see from above, there are not too many folks with an error,
> "NTLDR is less than expected". ntldr is missing or damaged are the usual
> errors.
>
> I do not know who the "expert" was, but I could guess.
>
> You gained absolutely nothing by reformatting to FAT32. The only advantage
> to having FAT32 is if you wanted to dual boot to some obsolete operating
> system like Windows 95 OSR2 or Windows 98 or Windows Me.
>
> An upgrade will probably not fix anything where a clean install might.
>
> --
> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>
> Wes
> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>
> In news:E5CC55E3-8F3C-4DB5-B952-(E-Mail Removed),
> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > Thanks for the reply. After 1.5 years I have looked at most of the
> > assistance you have linked in. The main problem is they refer to the
> > NTLDR missing. Mine is not and the computer behaves perfectly in normal
> > boot and operation. It is only safe mode that has problems.
> >
> > When I installed the OS it was to a clean new 60GB HDD formatted NTFS
> > during install. I used PQ Magic 8 to create 5 other logical drives for
> > programs, files games etc so the C:\ drive is for Windows "only" and any
> > progrmas that cannot install anywhere else. The other drives were
> > created as FAT32 drives so I ended up with windows installed on NTFS and
> > the rest of the drive being FAT32.
> >
> > I then followed some "expert" advice that I was gaining nothing by having
> > the C:\ drive formatted NTFS and used Partion Magic 8 to convert from
> > NTFS to FAT32. After this there were a few changes to long file names
> > and it appears that at that point the Win installation "lost track" of
> > the NTFS installation - but only if trying to boot into anything after
> > pressing F8 on startup.
> >
> > The message is that NTLDR is less than expected - not that it is missing.
> > With SP2 installed the message does not appear at all - the machine merely
> > reboots from a blue screen when an option is selcted from Safe Mode boot
> > screen. The message was briefly spotted when trying safe mode after
> > re-installation of the XP CD which is, by the way, pre SP1 (i.e. very
> > original). In all normal start-ups and operation (including things like
> > disc check and PQ Magic that run before Windows starts when required)
> > there is no problem with the machine at all.
> >
> > Re-installation of the same XP Home disc did not correct it since it
> > seemed to compare something on the CD with the installed files and merely
> > pointed out things were different. Re-installation went ahead but did
> > not correct the problem. Some hardware is now "incorrectly" identified
> > like an on-board AMR which the OS no longer accepts the motherboard CD
> > drivers for (I got the ones it wanted from the web so no big deal) and I
> > installed a USB 2.0 PCI card for which the OS will not accept all the
> > maker's drivers for (had to force it to accept the root hub drivers for
> > the card to work again no big deal). I think these minor hassles are
> > merely a result of a re-installation and a cheap USB card and that the OS
> > is still working fine.
> >
> > Rather than the hassle of a clean install would an upgrade to XP Pro help
> > or would it also decide my installation had changed since original
> > install and either fail or give the same problems?
> >
> > Would copying anything from the XP disc to my HDD make any difference? Is
> > the NTLDR file installation specific or would copying it from the XP CD
> > work? Are there any other CD files (that are not installation specific
> > of course) that may be corrupted on the HDD that can be copied? For
> > copying I have a Win98 boot disk created on an entirely different machine
> > if required.
> >
> > By the way I have tried repairing from the XP CD recovery console with
> > fixboot and fixmbr with no diference. I have always run AVG, Zonealarm,
> > Spybot S&D and Adaware so the problem seems to remain an XP "recognition"
> > one.
> >
> > Any further help much appreciated - safe mode doesn't seem very important
> > until you realise how many fairly minor problems have to be fixed in safe
> > mode!
> >
> > Thanks - Dave A
> >
> >
> >
> > "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
> >
> >> Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you boot.
> >>
> >> NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?
> >>
> >> [[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on your
> >> computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows boot
> >> files are missing or damaged:
> >> Ntldr
> >> Ntdetect.com
> >> Boot.ini ]]
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728
> >>
> >> [[Cause:
> >> Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
> >> Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
> >> Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
> >> Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
> >> Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is using
> >> FAT32.
> >> New hard disk drive being added.
> >> Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
> >> Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
> >> Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
> >> http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
> >>
> >> [[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
> >> • The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file system.
> >> • The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This is a partition
> >> larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the partition table).
> >> • Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads (sides) value in the
> >> FAT32 BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match the geometry of the
> >> physical drive. ]]
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
> >>
> >>
> >> Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492
> >>
> >> Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual
> >> Booting http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233
> >>
> >> You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your
> >> Computer http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397
> >>
> >> HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows 2000
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728
> >>
> >> Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862
> >>
> >> "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP
> >> Over Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
> >>
> >> The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by
> >> Using the Disk Management Tool
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261
> >>
> >> Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433
> >>
> >> --
> >> Hope this helps. Let us know.
> >>
> >> Wes
> >> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> >>
> >> In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
> >> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> >>> About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
> >>> decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
> >>> third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
> >>> any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen
> >>> goes blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair
> >>> installation of XP and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware
> >>> and having to re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem
> >>> remains.
> >>>
> >>> Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
> >>> blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once SP2
> >>> is added this blue screen message is not shown.
> >>>
> >>> Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
> >>> doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with less
> >>> effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this would have
> >>> been sensible?
>
>

Hi Dave,

> Would copying
> NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?

I do not see how it could hurt. Worth a shot.

See these.

Creating a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=311073

How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305595

How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable
to start Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314079

> Where does the wizard put the files since they
> cannot go back to original places?

You can copy to CD or save the file to another partition or drive on the
computer on which you are running F.A.S.T. (not the C: drive!).

Excellent FAST article by Gary Woodruff.

Everything you wanted to know about...
File & Settings Transfer Wizard
http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/fast.htm

Take it from me, you will forget something. ;-)

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news:4E816184-84A3-4A1C-8032-(E-Mail Removed),
Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> Hi Again Wes,
>
> Looks like a clean install might be the only way to go. Would copying
> NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?
>
> If I use the settings transfer wizard will it re-create all my profiles
> (Users) on a clean installation? If I use the files transfer part of the
> wizard I would be moving from the current 6 partitions
> to the new one partition. Where does the wizard put the files since they
> cannot go back to original places?
>
> I presume it is easier to transfer settings only and copy files to other
> media for transfer back later?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Dave A
>
> "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
>
>> Situations in Which Windows May Not Start in Safe Mode
>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/199175
>>
>> There are no documents that match your search for "NTLDR is less than
>> expected"
>>
http://support.microsoft.com/search/...mode=a&x=0&y=0
>>
>> Your search - "NTLDR is less than expected" - did not match any
>> documents.
>>
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&n...s=&safe=images
>>
>> Searched all groups Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "ntldr is less than
>> expected
>>
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
>>
>> As you can see from above, there are not too many folks with an error,
>> "NTLDR is less than expected". ntldr is missing or damaged are the usual
>> errors.
>>
>> I do not know who the "expert" was, but I could guess.
>>
>> You gained absolutely nothing by reformatting to FAT32. The only
>> advantage to having FAT32 is if you wanted to dual boot to some obsolete
>> operating system like Windows 95 OSR2 or Windows 98 or Windows Me.
>>
>> An upgrade will probably not fix anything where a clean install might.
>>
>> --
>> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>>
>> Wes
>> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>>
>> In news:E5CC55E3-8F3C-4DB5-B952-(E-Mail Removed),
>> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>> Thanks for the reply. After 1.5 years I have looked at most of the
>>> assistance you have linked in. The main problem is they refer to the
>>> NTLDR missing. Mine is not and the computer behaves perfectly in normal
>>> boot and operation. It is only safe mode that has problems.
>>>
>>> When I installed the OS it was to a clean new 60GB HDD formatted NTFS
>>> during install. I used PQ Magic 8 to create 5 other logical drives for
>>> programs, files games etc so the C:\ drive is for Windows "only" and any
>>> progrmas that cannot install anywhere else. The other drives were
>>> created as FAT32 drives so I ended up with windows installed on NTFS and
>>> the rest of the drive being FAT32.
>>>
>>> I then followed some "expert" advice that I was gaining nothing by
>>> having the C:\ drive formatted NTFS and used Partion Magic 8 to convert
>>> from NTFS to FAT32. After this there were a few changes to long file
>>> names and it appears that at that point the Win installation "lost
>>> track" of the NTFS installation - but only if trying to boot into
>>> anything after pressing F8 on startup.
>>>
>>> The message is that NTLDR is less than expected - not that it is
>>> missing. With SP2 installed the message does not appear at all - the
>>> machine merely reboots from a blue screen when an option is selcted
>>> from Safe Mode boot screen. The message was briefly spotted when
>>> trying safe mode after re-installation of the XP CD which is, by the
>>> way, pre SP1 (i.e. very original). In all normal start-ups and
>>> operation (including things like disc check and PQ Magic that run
>>> before Windows starts when required) there is no problem with the
>>> machine at all.
>>>
>>> Re-installation of the same XP Home disc did not correct it since it
>>> seemed to compare something on the CD with the installed files and
>>> merely pointed out things were different. Re-installation went ahead
>>> but did not correct the problem. Some hardware is now "incorrectly"
>>> identified like an on-board AMR which the OS no longer accepts the
>>> motherboard CD drivers for (I got the ones it wanted from the web so no
>>> big deal) and I installed a USB 2.0 PCI card for which the OS will not
>>> accept all the maker's drivers for (had to force it to accept the root
>>> hub drivers for the card to work again no big deal). I think these
>>> minor hassles are merely a result of a re-installation and a cheap USB
>>> card and that the OS is still working fine.
>>>
>>> Rather than the hassle of a clean install would an upgrade to XP Pro
>>> help or would it also decide my installation had changed since original
>>> install and either fail or give the same problems?
>>>
>>> Would copying anything from the XP disc to my HDD make any difference?
>>> Is the NTLDR file installation specific or would copying it from the XP
>>> CD work? Are there any other CD files (that are not installation
>>> specific
>>> of course) that may be corrupted on the HDD that can be copied? For
>>> copying I have a Win98 boot disk created on an entirely different
>>> machine if required.
>>>
>>> By the way I have tried repairing from the XP CD recovery console with
>>> fixboot and fixmbr with no diference. I have always run AVG, Zonealarm,
>>> Spybot S&D and Adaware so the problem seems to remain an XP
>>> "recognition" one.
>>>
>>> Any further help much appreciated - safe mode doesn't seem very
>>> important until you realise how many fairly minor problems have to be
>>> fixed in safe mode!
>>>
>>> Thanks - Dave A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you
>>>> boot.
>>>>
>>>> NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?
>>>>
>>>> [[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on
>>>> your computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows
>>>> boot
>>>> files are missing or damaged:
>>>> Ntldr
>>>> Ntdetect.com
>>>> Boot.ini ]]
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728
>>>>
>>>> [[Cause:
>>>> Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
>>>> Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
>>>> Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
>>>> Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
>>>> Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is
>>>> using FAT32.
>>>> New hard disk drive being added.
>>>> Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
>>>> Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
>>>> Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
>>>> http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
>>>>
>>>> [[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
>>>> • The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file
>>>> system. • The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This
>>>> is a partition larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the
>>>> partition table). • Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads
>>>> (sides) value in the FAT32 BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match
>>>> the geometry of the
>>>> physical drive. ]]
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492
>>>>
>>>> Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual
>>>> Booting http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233
>>>>
>>>> You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your
>>>> Computer http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397
>>>>
>>>> HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows
>>>> 2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728
>>>>
>>>> Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862
>>>>
>>>> "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP
>>>> Over Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
>>>>
>>>> The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by
>>>> Using the Disk Management Tool
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261
>>>>
>>>> Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>>>>
>>>> Wes
>>>> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>>>>
>>>> In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
>>>> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>>>> About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
>>>>> decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
>>>>> third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
>>>>> any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen
>>>>> goes blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair
>>>>> installation of XP and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware
>>>>> and having to re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem
>>>>> remains.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
>>>>> blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once
>>>>> SP2 is added this blue screen message is not shown.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
>>>>> doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with
>>>>> less effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this
>>>>> would have been sensible?

Hi Again Wesley,

I'll have a go with the copying of the two files first and then may pluck up
the enthusiasm
to do a clean install. I am also sure I will forget something - I have seen
an excellent article somewhere
in MS site for transferring all the Outlook Express messages and settings
for example and this kind of thing is
both essential and forgotton!!

All I meant with the F.A.S.T wizard is that I have six partitions - one
primary and five logical. XP installation, for example, sees only one 60GB
partition and
it looks as though it will format the whole drive ratther than just the
primary C:\ drive.

The files are spread over the five logical partitions so when they are
gathered up by the wizard and then I "unpack" them on the newly formatted
drive and OS
I presume the wizard puts the files into a new folder on the OS drive since
the drive mapping will be totally different
to when the wizard copied the files. No doubt the article you mention
covers this - I'll have a look but I tend to think a straight copy of files
onto a CD or DVD
with transfer into a newly created partition structure later will be easier
in the long-run anyway.

I cannot tackle anything until this coming weekend but I will revert with
what works (or not!) in due course.

Thanks again for your help

Dave A

"Wesley Vogel" wrote:

> Hi Dave,
>
> > Would copying
> > NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?
>
> I do not see how it could hurt. Worth a shot.
>
> See these.
>
> Creating a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=311073
>
> How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305595
>
> How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable
> to start Windows XP
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314079
>
> > Where does the wizard put the files since they
> > cannot go back to original places?
>
> You can copy to CD or save the file to another partition or drive on the
> computer on which you are running F.A.S.T. (not the C: drive!).
>
> Excellent FAST article by Gary Woodruff.
>
> Everything you wanted to know about...
> File & Settings Transfer Wizard
> http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/fast.htm
>
> Take it from me, you will forget something. ;-)
>
> --
> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>
> Wes
> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>
> In news:4E816184-84A3-4A1C-8032-(E-Mail Removed),
> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > Hi Again Wes,
> >
> > Looks like a clean install might be the only way to go. Would copying
> > NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?
> >
> > If I use the settings transfer wizard will it re-create all my profiles
> > (Users) on a clean installation? If I use the files transfer part of the
> > wizard I would be moving from the current 6 partitions
> > to the new one partition. Where does the wizard put the files since they
> > cannot go back to original places?
> >
> > I presume it is easier to transfer settings only and copy files to other
> > media for transfer back later?
> >
> > Thanks again
> >
> > Dave A
> >
> > "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
> >
> >> Situations in Which Windows May Not Start in Safe Mode
> >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/199175
> >>
> >> There are no documents that match your search for "NTLDR is less than
> >> expected"
> >>
> http://support.microsoft.com/search/...mode=a&x=0&y=0
> >>
> >> Your search - "NTLDR is less than expected" - did not match any
> >> documents.
> >>
> http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&n...s=&safe=images
> >>
> >> Searched all groups Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "ntldr is less than
> >> expected
> >>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
> >>
> >> As you can see from above, there are not too many folks with an error,
> >> "NTLDR is less than expected". ntldr is missing or damaged are the usual
> >> errors.
> >>
> >> I do not know who the "expert" was, but I could guess.
> >>
> >> You gained absolutely nothing by reformatting to FAT32. The only
> >> advantage to having FAT32 is if you wanted to dual boot to some obsolete
> >> operating system like Windows 95 OSR2 or Windows 98 or Windows Me.
> >>
> >> An upgrade will probably not fix anything where a clean install might.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Hope this helps. Let us know.
> >>
> >> Wes
> >> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> >>
> >> In news:E5CC55E3-8F3C-4DB5-B952-(E-Mail Removed),
> >> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> >>> Thanks for the reply. After 1.5 years I have looked at most of the
> >>> assistance you have linked in. The main problem is they refer to the
> >>> NTLDR missing. Mine is not and the computer behaves perfectly in normal
> >>> boot and operation. It is only safe mode that has problems.
> >>>
> >>> When I installed the OS it was to a clean new 60GB HDD formatted NTFS
> >>> during install. I used PQ Magic 8 to create 5 other logical drives for
> >>> programs, files games etc so the C:\ drive is for Windows "only" and any
> >>> progrmas that cannot install anywhere else. The other drives were
> >>> created as FAT32 drives so I ended up with windows installed on NTFS and
> >>> the rest of the drive being FAT32.
> >>>
> >>> I then followed some "expert" advice that I was gaining nothing by
> >>> having the C:\ drive formatted NTFS and used Partion Magic 8 to convert
> >>> from NTFS to FAT32. After this there were a few changes to long file
> >>> names and it appears that at that point the Win installation "lost
> >>> track" of the NTFS installation - but only if trying to boot into
> >>> anything after pressing F8 on startup.
> >>>
> >>> The message is that NTLDR is less than expected - not that it is
> >>> missing. With SP2 installed the message does not appear at all - the
> >>> machine merely reboots from a blue screen when an option is selcted
> >>> from Safe Mode boot screen. The message was briefly spotted when
> >>> trying safe mode after re-installation of the XP CD which is, by the
> >>> way, pre SP1 (i.e. very original). In all normal start-ups and
> >>> operation (including things like disc check and PQ Magic that run
> >>> before Windows starts when required) there is no problem with the
> >>> machine at all.
> >>>
> >>> Re-installation of the same XP Home disc did not correct it since it
> >>> seemed to compare something on the CD with the installed files and
> >>> merely pointed out things were different. Re-installation went ahead
> >>> but did not correct the problem. Some hardware is now "incorrectly"
> >>> identified like an on-board AMR which the OS no longer accepts the
> >>> motherboard CD drivers for (I got the ones it wanted from the web so no
> >>> big deal) and I installed a USB 2.0 PCI card for which the OS will not
> >>> accept all the maker's drivers for (had to force it to accept the root
> >>> hub drivers for the card to work again no big deal). I think these
> >>> minor hassles are merely a result of a re-installation and a cheap USB
> >>> card and that the OS is still working fine.
> >>>
> >>> Rather than the hassle of a clean install would an upgrade to XP Pro
> >>> help or would it also decide my installation had changed since original
> >>> install and either fail or give the same problems?
> >>>
> >>> Would copying anything from the XP disc to my HDD make any difference?
> >>> Is the NTLDR file installation specific or would copying it from the XP
> >>> CD work? Are there any other CD files (that are not installation
> >>> specific
> >>> of course) that may be corrupted on the HDD that can be copied? For
> >>> copying I have a Win98 boot disk created on an entirely different
> >>> machine if required.
> >>>
> >>> By the way I have tried repairing from the XP CD recovery console with
> >>> fixboot and fixmbr with no diference. I have always run AVG, Zonealarm,
> >>> Spybot S&D and Adaware so the problem seems to remain an XP
> >>> "recognition" one.
> >>>
> >>> Any further help much appreciated - safe mode doesn't seem very
> >>> important until you realise how many fairly minor problems have to be
> >>> fixed in safe mode!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks - Dave A
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you
> >>>> boot.
> >>>>
> >>>> NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?
> >>>>
> >>>> [[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on
> >>>> your computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows
> >>>> boot
> >>>> files are missing or damaged:
> >>>> Ntldr
> >>>> Ntdetect.com
> >>>> Boot.ini ]]
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728
> >>>>
> >>>> [[Cause:
> >>>> Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
> >>>> Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
> >>>> Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
> >>>> Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
> >>>> Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is
> >>>> using FAT32.
> >>>> New hard disk drive being added.
> >>>> Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
> >>>> Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
> >>>> Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
> >>>> http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
> >>>>
> >>>> [[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
> >>>> • The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file
> >>>> system. • The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This
> >>>> is a partition larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the
> >>>> partition table). • Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads
> >>>> (sides) value in the FAT32 BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match
> >>>> the geometry of the
> >>>> physical drive. ]]
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492
> >>>>
> >>>> Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual
> >>>> Booting http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233
> >>>>
> >>>> You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your
> >>>> Computer http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397
> >>>>
> >>>> HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows
> >>>> 2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728
> >>>>
> >>>> Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862
> >>>>
> >>>> "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP
> >>>> Over Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
> >>>>
> >>>> The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by
> >>>> Using the Disk Management Tool
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261
> >>>>
> >>>> Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
> >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Hope this helps. Let us know.
> >>>>
> >>>> Wes
> >>>> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> >>>>
> >>>> In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
> >>>> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> >>>>> About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
> >>>>> decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
> >>>>> third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
> >>>>> any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen
> >>>>> goes blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair
> >>>>> installation of XP and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware
> >>>>> and having to re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem
> >>>>> remains.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
> >>>>> blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once
> >>>>> SP2 is added this blue screen message is not shown.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
> >>>>> doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with
> >>>>> less effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this
> >>>>> would have been sensible?
>
>

"Dave A" wrote:

> Hi Again Wesley,
>
> I'll have a go with the copying of the two files first and then may pluck up
> the enthusiasm
> to do a clean install. I am also sure I will forget something - I have seen
> an excellent article somewhere
> in MS site for transferring all the Outlook Express messages and settings
> for example and this kind of thing is
> both essential and forgotton!!
>
> All I meant with the F.A.S.T wizard is that I have six partitions - one
> primary and five logical. XP installation, for example, sees only one 60GB
> partition and
> it looks as though it will format the whole drive ratther than just the
> primary C:\ drive.
>
> The files are spread over the five logical partitions so when they are
> gathered up by the wizard and then I "unpack" them on the newly formatted
> drive and OS
> I presume the wizard puts the files into a new folder on the OS drive since
> the drive mapping will be totally different
> to when the wizard copied the files. No doubt the article you mention
> covers this - I'll have a look but I tend to think a straight copy of files
> onto a CD or DVD
> with transfer into a newly created partition structure later will be easier
> in the long-run anyway.
>
> I cannot tackle anything until this coming weekend but I will revert with
> what works (or not!) in due course.
>
> Thanks again for your help
>
> Dave A
>
> "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > > Would copying
> > > NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?
> >
> > I do not see how it could hurt. Worth a shot.
> >
> > See these.
> >
> > Creating a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition
> > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=311073
> >
> > How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305595
> >
> > How to use System files to create a boot disk to guard against being unable
> > to start Windows XP
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314079
> >
> > > Where does the wizard put the files since they
> > > cannot go back to original places?
> >
> > You can copy to CD or save the file to another partition or drive on the
> > computer on which you are running F.A.S.T. (not the C: drive!).
> >
> > Excellent FAST article by Gary Woodruff.
> >
> > Everything you wanted to know about...
> > File & Settings Transfer Wizard
> > http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/fast.htm
> >
> > Take it from me, you will forget something. ;-)
> >
> > --
> > Hope this helps. Let us know.
> >
> > Wes
> > MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> >
> > In news:4E816184-84A3-4A1C-8032-(E-Mail Removed),
> > Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > > Hi Again Wes,
> > >
> > > Looks like a clean install might be the only way to go. Would copying
> > > NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM from the original XP CD maybe help?
> > >
> > > If I use the settings transfer wizard will it re-create all my profiles
> > > (Users) on a clean installation? If I use the files transfer part of the
> > > wizard I would be moving from the current 6 partitions
> > > to the new one partition. Where does the wizard put the files since they
> > > cannot go back to original places?
> > >
> > > I presume it is easier to transfer settings only and copy files to other
> > > media for transfer back later?
> > >
> > > Thanks again
> > >
> > > Dave A
> > >
> > > "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
> > >
> > >> Situations in Which Windows May Not Start in Safe Mode
> > >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/199175
> > >>
> > >> There are no documents that match your search for "NTLDR is less than
> > >> expected"
> > >>
> > http://support.microsoft.com/search/...mode=a&x=0&y=0
> > >>
> > >> Your search - "NTLDR is less than expected" - did not match any
> > >> documents.
> > >>
> > http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&n...s=&safe=images
> > >>
> > >> Searched all groups Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "ntldr is less than
> > >> expected
> > >>
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...=2006&safe=off
> > >>
> > >> As you can see from above, there are not too many folks with an error,
> > >> "NTLDR is less than expected". ntldr is missing or damaged are the usual
> > >> errors.
> > >>
> > >> I do not know who the "expert" was, but I could guess.
> > >>
> > >> You gained absolutely nothing by reformatting to FAT32. The only
> > >> advantage to having FAT32 is if you wanted to dual boot to some obsolete
> > >> operating system like Windows 95 OSR2 or Windows 98 or Windows Me.
> > >>
> > >> An upgrade will probably not fix anything where a clean install might.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Hope this helps. Let us know.
> > >>
> > >> Wes
> > >> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> > >>
> > >> In news:E5CC55E3-8F3C-4DB5-B952-(E-Mail Removed),
> > >> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > >>> Thanks for the reply. After 1.5 years I have looked at most of the
> > >>> assistance you have linked in. The main problem is they refer to the
> > >>> NTLDR missing. Mine is not and the computer behaves perfectly in normal
> > >>> boot and operation. It is only safe mode that has problems.
> > >>>
> > >>> When I installed the OS it was to a clean new 60GB HDD formatted NTFS
> > >>> during install. I used PQ Magic 8 to create 5 other logical drives for
> > >>> programs, files games etc so the C:\ drive is for Windows "only" and any
> > >>> progrmas that cannot install anywhere else. The other drives were
> > >>> created as FAT32 drives so I ended up with windows installed on NTFS and
> > >>> the rest of the drive being FAT32.
> > >>>
> > >>> I then followed some "expert" advice that I was gaining nothing by
> > >>> having the C:\ drive formatted NTFS and used Partion Magic 8 to convert
> > >>> from NTFS to FAT32. After this there were a few changes to long file
> > >>> names and it appears that at that point the Win installation "lost
> > >>> track" of the NTFS installation - but only if trying to boot into
> > >>> anything after pressing F8 on startup.
> > >>>
> > >>> The message is that NTLDR is less than expected - not that it is
> > >>> missing. With SP2 installed the message does not appear at all - the
> > >>> machine merely reboots from a blue screen when an option is selcted
> > >>> from Safe Mode boot screen. The message was briefly spotted when
> > >>> trying safe mode after re-installation of the XP CD which is, by the
> > >>> way, pre SP1 (i.e. very original). In all normal start-ups and
> > >>> operation (including things like disc check and PQ Magic that run
> > >>> before Windows starts when required) there is no problem with the
> > >>> machine at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> Re-installation of the same XP Home disc did not correct it since it
> > >>> seemed to compare something on the CD with the installed files and
> > >>> merely pointed out things were different. Re-installation went ahead
> > >>> but did not correct the problem. Some hardware is now "incorrectly"
> > >>> identified like an on-board AMR which the OS no longer accepts the
> > >>> motherboard CD drivers for (I got the ones it wanted from the web so no
> > >>> big deal) and I installed a USB 2.0 PCI card for which the OS will not
> > >>> accept all the maker's drivers for (had to force it to accept the root
> > >>> hub drivers for the card to work again no big deal). I think these
> > >>> minor hassles are merely a result of a re-installation and a cheap USB
> > >>> card and that the OS is still working fine.
> > >>>
> > >>> Rather than the hassle of a clean install would an upgrade to XP Pro
> > >>> help or would it also decide my installation had changed since original
> > >>> install and either fail or give the same problems?
> > >>>
> > >>> Would copying anything from the XP disc to my HDD make any difference?
> > >>> Is the NTLDR file installation specific or would copying it from the XP
> > >>> CD work? Are there any other CD files (that are not installation
> > >>> specific
> > >>> of course) that may be corrupted on the HDD that can be copied? For
> > >>> copying I have a Win98 boot disk created on an entirely different
> > >>> machine if required.
> > >>>
> > >>> By the way I have tried repairing from the XP CD recovery console with
> > >>> fixboot and fixmbr with no diference. I have always run AVG, Zonealarm,
> > >>> Spybot S&D and Adaware so the problem seems to remain an XP
> > >>> "recognition" one.
> > >>>
> > >>> Any further help much appreciated - safe mode doesn't seem very
> > >>> important until you realise how many fairly minor problems have to be
> > >>> fixed in safe mode!
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks - Dave A
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> "Wesley Vogel" wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Make sure that there are no disks in any removable drives when you
> > >>>> boot.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> NTLDR is missing, why does it happen?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [[This problem may occur if the basic input/output system (BIOS) on
> > >>>> your computer is outdated, or if one or more of the following Windows
> > >>>> boot
> > >>>> files are missing or damaged:
> > >>>> Ntldr
> > >>>> Ntdetect.com
> > >>>> Boot.ini ]]
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid18728
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [[Cause:
> > >>>> Computer is booting from a non-bootable source.
> > >>>> Computer hard disk drive is not properly setup in BIOS.
> > >>>> Corrupt NTLDR and/or NTDETECT.COM file.
> > >>>> Misconfiguration with the boot.ini file.
> > >>>> Attempting to upgrade from a Windows 95, 98, or ME computer that is
> > >>>> using FAT32.
> > >>>> New hard disk drive being added.
> > >>>> Corrupt boot sector / master boot record.
> > >>>> Seriously corrupted version of Windows 2000 or Windows XP.
> > >>>> Loose or Faulty IDE/EIDE hard disk drive cable. ]]
> > >>>> http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000465.htm
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [[For this problem to occur, all the following conditions must be true:
> > >>>> • The system/startup partition is formatted with the FAT32 file
> > >>>> system. • The computer starts by using INT-13 extensions. (This
> > >>>> is a partition larger than 7.8 GB with a System-ID type of 0C in the
> > >>>> partition table). • Because of the cloning procedure, the Heads
> > >>>> (sides) value in the FAT32 BIOS Parameter Block (BPB) does not match
> > >>>> the geometry of the
> > >>>> physical drive. ]]
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Error Message When You Start Your Computer with a Non-System Disk
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;812492
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Windows XP Does Not Start on a Computer That Is Configured for Dual
> > >>>> Booting http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315233
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You Receive an "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Start Your
> > >>>> Computer http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;320397
> > >>>>
> > >>>> HOW TO: Troubleshoot the "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message in Windows
> > >>>> 2000 http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;318728
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Err Msg: Boot - Can't Find NTLDR, or Windows Could Not Start..
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;101862
> > >>>>
> > >>>> "NTLDR Is Missing" Error Message When You Upgrade or Install Windows XP
> > >>>> Over Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows Millennium Edition
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314057
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The Computer Does Not Start After You Change the Active Partition by
> > >>>> Using the Disk Management Tool
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;315261
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Cannot Start Windows XP After You Install Windows 2000
> > >>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;283433
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Hope this helps. Let us know.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Wes
> > >>>> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In news85F1782-0754-46C1-8D8E-(E-Mail Removed),
> > >>>> Dave A <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > >>>>> About 1.5 years ago I added SP2 to Win XP Home and about the same time
> > >>>>> decided to convert my NTFS C:\ drive to FAT 32 using PQ Magic 8 (only
> > >>>>> third party will go that way I gather). Since then I cannot boot into
> > >>>>> any option from the safe mode options after pressing F8. The screen
> > >>>>> goes blue and the machine reboots. I recently did a repair
> > >>>>> installation of XP and apart from confusing the OS with some hardware
> > >>>>> and having to re-install a couple of programs the safe mode problem
> > >>>>> remains.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Before installing SP2 this time I tried to boot into safe mode and the
> > >>>>> blue screen had a message that the "NTLDR is less than......". Once
> > >>>>> SP2 is added this blue screen message is not shown.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Do I have any options apart from backing up files and settings etc and
> > >>>>> doing a clean install? Will upgrading to XP Pro sort this out with
> > >>>>> less effort? I do not have XP recovery discs and I presume this
> > >>>>> would have been sensible?
> >
> >

Hi Again Weslye et al,

It's been a long time but I chickened out from the clean install for now -
just too much on the computer to allow it to happen in a time frame
acceptable to the wife!!
I have another question which I will post anew.

Dave A