I know that a system restore point is far from an everything;
nevertheless, they do seem a useful concept. However, like the ERU/ERD
ones in Windows 95 (works fine in 98/Me too), I'd like to be able to
keep the odd one; at present SRPs seem to be like the replacement to
ERU/ERD that came with '98, i. e. they go into a FIFO buffer: since the
system makes SRPs quite frequently, the oldest isn't that old. I've just
installed CCleaner, which has a useful "manage your CRPs" tool (actually
all it lets you do is remove them, but it's useful as a way of seeing
what you've got), and I see my oldest is only just over a month old, and
there are only ones made by my system and a utility there, none that
I've made myself.

Can it be done (marking one as "keep")? If not, can they be moved to a
safe place, and moved back when needed? (What form do they take?
Presumably not registry entries! Though how they're indexed I rather
fear _is_ in the registry.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **

"Most of us, when all is said and done, like what we like and make up reasons
for it afterwards." - Soren F. Petersen

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> I know that a system restore point is far from an everything;
> nevertheless, they do seem a useful concept. However, like the ERU/ERD
> ones in Windows 95 (works fine in 98/Me too), I'd like to be able to keep
> the odd one; at present SRPs seem to be like the replacement to ERU/ERD
> that came with '98, i. e. they go into a FIFO buffer: since the system
> makes SRPs quite frequently, the oldest isn't that old. I've just
> installed CCleaner, which has a useful "manage your CRPs" tool (actually
> all it lets you do is remove them, but it's useful as a way of seeing what
> you've got), and I see my oldest is only just over a month old, and there
> are only ones made by my system and a utility there, none that I've made
> myself.
>
> Can it be done (marking one as "keep")? If not, can they be moved to a
> safe place, and moved back when needed? (What form do they take?
> Presumably not registry entries! Though how they're indexed I rather fear
> _is_ in the registry.)

No. That would be a backup. System Restores are not the same, nor can they
be treated in the same way - as a backup.

You could use ERUNT to backup your XP registry if you want. You could make
just 'System State' backups if you want.

ERD (Emergency Repair Disk) is nothing like System Restore. The Windows XP
CD itself contains most everything you would need to boot and repair an
installation of Windows XP. In conjunction with the Recovery Console, you
have a whole slew of tools at your disposal in this way.

You could utilize something like a BartPE or Ultimate Windows Boot CD to get
in and have a more familar interface from a CD/DVD.

In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice to five times
the total amount of space you have and either use some feature of it to
backup your system or use some third party application to make images of
your hard disk drive to it or just make system backups using internal or
third party methods.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Shenan Stanley
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> I know that a system restore point is far from an everything;
[]
>No. That would be a backup. System Restores are not the same, nor can they
>be treated in the same way - as a backup.
>
>You could use ERUNT to backup your XP registry if you want. You could make

I do.

>just 'System State' backups if you want.
>
>ERD (Emergency Repair Disk) is nothing like System Restore. The Windows XP
>CD itself contains most everything you would need to boot and repair an
>installation of Windows XP. In conjunction with the Recovery Console, you
>have a whole slew of tools at your disposal in this way.
>
>You could utilize something like a BartPE or Ultimate Windows Boot CD to get
>in and have a more familar interface from a CD/DVD.

I have BartPE (as dual boot; I haven't got round to making an actual CD
yet).
>
>In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
>yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice to five times
>the total amount of space you have and either use some feature of it to
>backup your system or use some third party application to make images of
>your hard disk drive to it or just make system backups using internal or
>third party methods.
>
What you say matches what I suspected; it just seems a pity that System
Restore appeared with XP, but it is far from clear (to me at least) what
a System Restore point actually _does_ store.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **

Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe. -Galileo
Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> I know that a system restore point is far from an everything;
> nevertheless, they do seem a useful concept. However, like the ERU/ERD
> ones in Windows 95 (works fine in 98/Me too), I'd like to be able to keep
> the odd one; at present SRPs seem to be like the replacement to ERU/ERD
> that came with '98, i. e. they go into a FIFO buffer: since the system
> makes SRPs quite frequently, the oldest isn't that old. I've just
> installed CCleaner, which has a useful "manage your CRPs" tool (actually
> all it lets you do is remove them, but it's useful as a way of seeing what
> you've got), and I see my oldest is only just over a month old, and there
> are only ones made by my system and a utility there, none that I've made
> myself.
>
> Can it be done (marking one as "keep")? If not, can they be moved to a
> safe place, and moved back when needed? (What form do they take?
> Presumably not registry entries! Though how they're indexed I rather fear
> _is_ in the registry.)

Shenan Stanley wrote:
> No. That would be a backup. System Restores are not the same, nor can
> they be treated in the same way - as a backup.
>
> You could use ERUNT to backup your XP registry if you want. You could
> make just 'System State' backups if you want.
>
> ERD (Emergency Repair Disk) is nothing like System Restore. The Windows
> XP CD itself contains most everything you would need to boot and repair an
> installation of Windows XP. In conjunction with the Recovery Console, you
> have a whole slew of tools at your disposal in this way.
>
> You could utilize something like a BartPE or Ultimate Windows Boot CD to
> get in and have a more familar interface from a CD/DVD.
>
> In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
> yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice to five
> times the total amount of space you have and either use some feature of it
> to backup your system or use some third party application to make images
> of your hard disk drive to it or just make system backups using internal
> or third party methods.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> I do.
>
> I have BartPE (as dual boot; I haven't got round to making an actual CD
> yet).
>
> What you say matches what I suspected; it just seems a pity that System
> Restore appeared with XP, but it is far from clear (to me at least) what a
> System Restore point actually _does_ store.

System Restore appeared with Windows ME. ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Restore

Probably one of the best places to research System Restore in Windows XP is
here:

http://bertk.mvps.org/

You might read this:
http://bertk.mvps.org/html/description.html

As well as:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...sked-questions
and
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tuto...utorial56.html

The last of those has a couple of lists...

These restore points contain configuration and settings and files
that are necessary for your computer to run correctly. The following
are some of the settings and files that are saved in a Restore Point:

. Registry (Contains Configuration information for application, user,
and operating system settings)
. Windows File Protection files in the dllscache folder. (Used for
protecting system files)
. COM+ Database
. Windows Management Instrumentation Database
. IIS Metabase (Contains configuration for Internet Information Server)
. Files with extensions listed in the Monitored File Extensions list in
the
System Restore section of the Platform SDK
. Local Profiles

What System Restore does not store in a Restore Point include:
. Windows XP passwords and hints are not restored. This is done
so that you do not by accident restore an old password and then
lock yourself out of the computer..
. Microsoft Internet Explorer and Content Advisor passwords and
hints are not restored.
. Any file types not monitored by System Restore like personal data
files e.g. .doc, .jpg, .txt etc.
. Items listed in both Filesnottobackup and KeysnottoRestore
. User-created data stored in the user profile
. Contents of redirected folders

Hope that helps!

I still recommend - heavily - some backup application and external location
to put the backup. Best is something that not only backs up your files
periodically (every night, once a week, etc) but also does a system state
backup every single night. For most people - if they only had a way to
restore their system state back to the way it was the day before - their
files and stuff would be readily available and they would be much happier.
;-)

Having a dual boot of BartPE really doesn't help much if it is the drive
that goes bad, eh? *grin*

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Shenan Stanley
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
[]
>> What you say matches what I suspected; it just seems a pity that System
>> Restore appeared with XP, but it is far from clear (to me at least) what a
>> System Restore point actually _does_ store.
>
>System Restore appeared with Windows ME. ;-)
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Restore

OK, I didn't know that. (Assuming it's actually the same thing, and that
the Me one was not a development of ERU/ERD.)

>
>Probably one of the best places to research System Restore in Windows XP is
>here:
>
>http://bertk.mvps.org/

That tells me how to _do_ a restore, AFAICS.
>
>You might read this:
>http://bertk.mvps.org/html/description.html

That one is most informative, thank you. (I hadn't realised that, when
disc space gets low, it not only stops making restore points, but
deletes any already made. Seems an odd behaviour - since something that
is causing disc space to be eaten is exactly one of the many things for
which one might want to go back!)
>
>As well as:
>http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...store-frequent
>ly-asked-questions

That one is a bit Vista-specific. (Interesting that under Vista - and,
presumably, 7 - SR does _not_ save anything on a FAT disc.)

>and
>http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tuto...utorial56.html

Mostly what-it-is-and-how-to-use-it, though does include details of
registry where to change the automatic period.
>
>The last of those has a couple of lists...
>
>These restore points contain configuration and settings and files
>that are necessary for your computer to run correctly. The following
>are some of the settings and files that are saved in a Restore Point:[lists of what SR does and does not save/restore]
>Hope that helps!

Thanks, useful to know.
>
>I still recommend - heavily - some backup application and external location
>to put the backup. Best is something that not only backs up your files
>periodically (every night, once a week, etc) but also does a system state
>backup every single night. For most people - if they only had a way to
>restore their system state back to the way it was the day before - their
>files and stuff would be readily available and they would be much happier.
>;-)
Agreed for all you say. But I _still_ think that, if system restore is
considered worthwhile at all, it should have been possible to tag one to
be kept indefinitely.

>
>Having a dual boot of BartPE really doesn't help much if it is the drive
>that goes bad, eh? *grin*
>
No, though under those circumstances I don't think having it as a
bootable CD would help me much either *grin* (well, backups of course)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **

Mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe. -Galileo
Galilei, physicist and astronomer (1564-1642)

Shenan Stanley said
"In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice to five times
the total amount of space you have and either use some feature of it to
backup your system or use some third party application to make images of
your hard disk drive to it or just make system backups using internal or
third party methods.
The BIG danger "as I learned" is that the unexpected happens. I religiously
made Ghost 9 backups but had no way to FULLY test if they would work to
fully restore a clean system. When I needed them the computer a Dell 8400
series would not find the backups on the external drive until I first
installed a program to let the Dell see the external drives. About six days
of effort to do the restore.
Since you have to install backups to test I can see no foolproof method to
proof your backup system.
SG


"Shenan Stanley" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> I know that a system restore point is far from an everything;
>> nevertheless, they do seem a useful concept. However, like the ERU/ERD
>> ones in Windows 95 (works fine in 98/Me too), I'd like to be able to keep
>> the odd one; at present SRPs seem to be like the replacement to ERU/ERD
>> that came with '98, i. e. they go into a FIFO buffer: since the system
>> makes SRPs quite frequently, the oldest isn't that old. I've just
>> installed CCleaner, which has a useful "manage your CRPs" tool (actually
>> all it lets you do is remove them, but it's useful as a way of seeing
>> what you've got), and I see my oldest is only just over a month old, and
>> there are only ones made by my system and a utility there, none that I've
>> made myself.
>>
>> Can it be done (marking one as "keep")? If not, can they be moved to a
>> safe place, and moved back when needed? (What form do they take?
>> Presumably not registry entries! Though how they're indexed I rather fear
>> _is_ in the registry.)
>
> No. That would be a backup. System Restores are not the same, nor can
> they be treated in the same way - as a backup.
>
> You could use ERUNT to backup your XP registry if you want. You could
> make just 'System State' backups if you want.
>
> ERD (Emergency Repair Disk) is nothing like System Restore. The Windows
> XP CD itself contains most everything you would need to boot and repair an
> installation of Windows XP. In conjunction with the Recovery Console, you
> have a whole slew of tools at your disposal in this way.
>
> You could utilize something like a BartPE or Ultimate Windows Boot CD to
> get in and have a more familar interface from a CD/DVD.
>
> In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
> yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice to five
> times the total amount of space you have and either use some feature of it
> to backup your system or use some third party application to make images
> of your hard disk drive to it or just make system backups using internal
> or third party methods.
>
> --
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

shakey wrote:
> Shenan Stanley said
> "In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
> yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice
> to five times the total amount of space you have and either use
> some feature of it to backup your system or use some third party
> application to make images of your hard disk drive to it or just
> make system backups using internal or third party methods.
> The BIG danger "as I learned" is that the unexpected happens. I
> religiously made Ghost 9 backups but had no way to FULLY test if
> they would work to fully restore a clean system. When I needed
> them the computer a Dell 8400 series would not find the backups on
> the external drive until I first installed a program to let the
> Dell see the external drives. About six days of effort to do the
> restore. Since you have to install backups to test I can see no foolproof
> method to proof your backup system.

Actually - in your case, it may be less a matter of 'no way to test' and
more of not knowing how to test your backup and/or how to recover in case
you need to.

You said you were making Ghost (Symantec/Norton) images (Disk or
partition?) - which means you could have used something like Ghost Explorer
to open and navigate the directory structure manually to see what was
actually there - even copy files from inside the image to your local drives
to see if the backup was working.

Also - most modern virtual machine software will allow you to apply a ghost
image or even convert a ghost image to a VM. You most likely would have to
perform a repair installation on the VM in order to get it to recognize the
'hardware' changes - but it is a proof-of-concept.

Also - most Symantec/Norton software allows you to make a boot disk to
restore from 'bare metal' if you need to.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

If you are absolutely intent on saving one or more System Restore Points it is
possible, but it's a bit of a hassle.

To save one or more restore points, displayed at any one time, in the System
Restore's user interface's calendar:

Firstly, you have to change the security permissions of the "System Volume
Information" folder to include your username and give it "full" rights. If not, you
can't even see the inside of this folder.

Then, copy the entire folder to another location on your hard-drive and remove your
username from the permissions again..

If you then want to restore the restore points that were seen when the folder was
copied, edit the "System Volume Information" folder's permissions again to include
your username as owner of full rights.

Then copy the "System Volume Information" folder that you saved to another location,
back again to the root of your system drive - overwriting the current "System Volume
Information" folder completely. In fact, your better off deleting the current folder
before you copy the saved folder back again.

The same dates will now be visible in the System Restore's calendar as when you first
saved the folder.

You cannot save individual restore points because of the way that the program saves
the information about restore points in files within the "System Volume Information"
folder.


You are probably better off, though, downloading the [free] program ERUNT - which
teaches you all about what files constitute the Window's registry, how to back-up the
registry and how to restore the registry in a number of ways, including restoring the
registry when you cannot start Windows!

I highly recommend you get this utility...

Download the program ERUNT from the link below...
http://www.aumha.org/downloads/erunt-setup.exe

....or go to the ERUNT homepage...
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt


==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)




"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I know that a system restore point is far from an everything; nevertheless, they do
>seem a useful concept. However, like the ERU/ERD ones in Windows 95 (works fine in
>98/Me too), I'd like to be able to keep the odd one; at present SRPs seem to be like
>the replacement to ERU/ERD that came with '98, i. e. they go into a FIFO buffer:
>since the system makes SRPs quite frequently, the oldest isn't that old. I've just
>installed CCleaner, which has a useful "manage your CRPs" tool (actually all it lets
>you do is remove them, but it's useful as a way of seeing what you've got), and I
>see my oldest is only just over a month old, and there are only ones made by my
>system and a utility there, none that I've made myself.
>
> Can it be done (marking one as "keep")? If not, can they be moved to a safe place,
> and moved back when needed? (What form do they take? Presumably not registry
> entries! Though how they're indexed I rather fear _is_ in the registry.)
> --
> J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
> ** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
> outdated thoughts on PCs. **
>
> "Most of us, when all is said and done, like what we like and make up reasons
> for it afterwards." - Soren F. Petersen

"Shenan Stanley" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ujM5P%(E-Mail Removed)...
> shakey wrote:
>> Shenan Stanley said
>> "In the end - no - system restores cannot be saved. Use backups. Get
>> yourself an inexpesive external drive that probably has twice
>> to five times the total amount of space you have and either use
>> some feature of it to backup your system or use some third party
>> application to make images of your hard disk drive to it or just
>> make system backups using internal or third party methods.
>> The BIG danger "as I learned" is that the unexpected happens. I
>> religiously made Ghost 9 backups but had no way to FULLY test if
>> they would work to fully restore a clean system. When I needed
>> them the computer a Dell 8400 series would not find the backups on
>> the external drive until I first installed a program to let the
>> Dell see the external drives. About six days of effort to do the
>> restore. Since you have to install backups to test I can see no foolproof
>> method to proof your backup system.
>
> Actually - in your case, it may be less a matter of 'no way to test' and
> more of not knowing how to test your backup and/or how to recover in case
> you need to.
I understand your believing this but you are wrong.
>
> You said you were making Ghost (Symantec/Norton) images (Disk or
> partition?) - which means you could have used something like Ghost
> Explorer to open and navigate the directory structure manually to see what
> was actually there - even copy files from inside the image to your local
> drives to see if the backup was working.

This was done and yes it worked , even restored files before. BUT only with
windows installed. NOT after HD was clean, "no access to external drive."
>
> Also - most modern virtual machine software will allow you to apply a
> ghost image or even convert a ghost image to a VM. You most likely would
> have to perform a repair installation on the VM in order to get it to
> recognize the 'hardware' changes - but it is a proof-of-concept.
In hindsite yes but no idea that it would fail in normal mode.
>
> Also - most Symantec/Norton software allows you to make a boot disk to
> restore from 'bare metal' if you need to.
The manual supplied states that the backup image can restore the system.

Strange that my hours long conservations with Symantec did not produce these
replies and no solution I reinstalled XP from origional disk and then
restored files, not programs, from Ghost.

OLD history now so lets agree to disagree and end our part of thread.
SG
> Shenan Stanley
> MS-MVP
> --
> How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>

shakey wrote:
> I understand your believing this but you are wrong.
>
> This was done and yes it worked , even restored files before. BUT
> only with windows installed. NOT after HD was clean, "no access to
> external drive."
> The manual supplied states that the backup image can restore the
> system.
> Strange that my hours long conservations with Symantec did not
> produce these replies and no solution I reinstalled XP from
> origional disk and then restored files, not programs, from Ghost.
>
> OLD history now so lets agree to disagree and end our part of thread.

If you had a good boot CD/disk (one that can access the external
drive/network) then you would not have had the issue. BartPE, UBCD, etc
come to mind. You could then access the external media, the network, etc
and restore an image you copied externally.

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html