Don't flame me for such a stupid sounding question, because there's
decent evidence that it's happening to me on my 9800 Pro. When I use
Rage3D Tweak to oc past the stock 378/337, my 3DMark2001SE scores
actually GO DOWN slightly. Now, I'm no oc'ing expert, but I'm not a
newbie either. I've used Rage3D on many cards in the past, I've
always realized a performance gain, especially on my 9800SE, but also
on 8500LEs and 9600 non-pro and pro.
Specifically, I'm using a 9800 Pro on an AMD machine running a XP2500+
at stock. With the 9800 Pro at its stock 378/337 I get approximately
15,000 on 3DMark2001SE (anywhere from 14,950 to 15,050). When I oc
the card slightly, to, say 386/345, my scores drop about 200 points.
I've used two versions of Rage3D, and I've run 3DMark before and after
rebooting.
If I can't oc, that's fine. The card zips just great now. Just seems
weird as heck. Any ideas?
Thank you,

jakesnake

"jakesnake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Don't flame me for such a stupid sounding question, because there's
> decent evidence that it's happening to me on my 9800 Pro. When I use
> Rage3D Tweak to oc past the stock 378/337, my 3DMark2001SE scores
> actually GO DOWN slightly. Now, I'm no oc'ing expert, but I'm not a
> newbie either. I've used Rage3D on many cards in the past, I've
> always realized a performance gain, especially on my 9800SE, but also
> on 8500LEs and 9600 non-pro and pro.
> Specifically, I'm using a 9800 Pro on an AMD machine running a XP2500+
> at stock. With the 9800 Pro at its stock 378/337 I get approximately
> 15,000 on 3DMark2001SE (anywhere from 14,950 to 15,050). When I oc
> the card slightly, to, say 386/345, my scores drop about 200 points.
> I've used two versions of Rage3D, and I've run 3DMark before and after
> rebooting.
> If I can't oc, that's fine. The card zips just great now. Just seems
> weird as heck. Any ideas?
> Thank you,
>
> jakesnake

It's strange that you lose with such minor clocking, but yes you can lose
performance with OC'ing because of heat issues. Does your case have adequate
cooling? I suggest running the same tests with the side of your case off and
see if it makes a difference. JLC

On 7 Mar 2004 11:36:57 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) (jakesnake) wrote:

>Don't flame me for such a stupid sounding question, because there's
>decent evidence that it's happening to me on my 9800 Pro.

Yes, it can happen if the card is getting too hot. Go back to stock
speeds if that's what you think is happening.

My 9800 Pro actually ran faster when I under-clocked it until I put on
ramsinks and a the new Cooler. Now it runs much faster OC'd.

Gary

--

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com



"jakesnake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Don't flame me for such a stupid sounding question, because there's
> decent evidence that it's happening to me on my 9800 Pro. When I use
> Rage3D Tweak to oc past the stock 378/337, my 3DMark2001SE scores
> actually GO DOWN slightly. Now, I'm no oc'ing expert, but I'm not a
> newbie either. I've used Rage3D on many cards in the past, I've
> always realized a performance gain, especially on my 9800SE, but also
> on 8500LEs and 9600 non-pro and pro.
> Specifically, I'm using a 9800 Pro on an AMD machine running a XP2500+
> at stock. With the 9800 Pro at its stock 378/337 I get approximately
> 15,000 on 3DMark2001SE (anywhere from 14,950 to 15,050). When I oc
> the card slightly, to, say 386/345, my scores drop about 200 points.
> I've used two versions of Rage3D, and I've run 3DMark before and after
> rebooting.
> If I can't oc, that's fine. The card zips just great now. Just seems
> weird as heck. Any ideas?
> Thank you,
>
> jakesnake

I know when some computers are overclocked, the 3DMark2001 scores sometimes
drop because although running faster, some calculations are done less
accurately. Maybe this applies to video cards too.


"GTX_SlotCar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c2jlcj$1uqi9p$(E-Mail Removed)...
> My 9800 Pro actually ran faster when I under-clocked it until I put on
> ramsinks and a the new Cooler. Now it runs much faster OC'd.
>
> Gary
>
> --
>
> Tweaks & Reviews
> www.slottweak.com
>
>
>
> "jakesnake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Don't flame me for such a stupid sounding question, because there's
> > decent evidence that it's happening to me on my 9800 Pro. When I use
> > Rage3D Tweak to oc past the stock 378/337, my 3DMark2001SE scores
> > actually GO DOWN slightly. Now, I'm no oc'ing expert, but I'm not a
> > newbie either. I've used Rage3D on many cards in the past, I've
> > always realized a performance gain, especially on my 9800SE, but also
> > on 8500LEs and 9600 non-pro and pro.
> > Specifically, I'm using a 9800 Pro on an AMD machine running a XP2500+
> > at stock. With the 9800 Pro at its stock 378/337 I get approximately
> > 15,000 on 3DMark2001SE (anywhere from 14,950 to 15,050). When I oc
> > the card slightly, to, say 386/345, my scores drop about 200 points.
> > I've used two versions of Rage3D, and I've run 3DMark before and after
> > rebooting.
> > If I can't oc, that's fine. The card zips just great now. Just seems
> > weird as heck. Any ideas?
> > Thank you,
> >
> > jakesnake
>
>

"jakesnake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Don't flame me for such a stupid sounding question, because there's
> decent evidence that it's happening to me on my 9800 Pro. When I use
> Rage3D Tweak to oc past the stock 378/337, my 3DMark2001SE scores
> actually GO DOWN slightly. Now, I'm no oc'ing expert, but I'm not a
> newbie either. I've used Rage3D on many cards in the past, I've
> always realized a performance gain, especially on my 9800SE, but also
> on 8500LEs and 9600 non-pro and pro.
> Specifically, I'm using a 9800 Pro on an AMD machine running a XP2500+
> at stock. With the 9800 Pro at its stock 378/337 I get approximately
> 15,000 on 3DMark2001SE (anywhere from 14,950 to 15,050). When I oc
> the card slightly, to, say 386/345, my scores drop about 200 points.
> I've used two versions of Rage3D, and I've run 3DMark before and after
> rebooting.
> If I can't oc, that's fine. The card zips just great now. Just seems
> weird as heck. Any ideas?
> Thank you,
>
> jakesnake

Yes. It gets hot and seems to run slower. I read a review of a 9800XT and
when the reviewer overclocked the core past 440 his 3DMark2001SE dropped. I
agree with GTX that adding ramsinks and a better cooler will let the
overclock work and actually run higher in benchmarks. Too much heat and not
enough cooling messes up any overclock.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.617 / Virus Database: 396 - Release Date: 3/9/2004

"MaNiCaL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I know when some computers are overclocked, the 3DMark2001 scores
sometimes
> drop because although running faster, some calculations are done less
> accurately. Maybe this applies to video cards too.

It could be that. It's related to the heat on the ram chips, for sure. I've
got to hand it to the 9800 Pro, though. It was hot enough to run slower, but
I never got any artifacts.

Gary


--

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

"GTX_SlotCar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c2md06$1v7scl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "MaNiCaL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I know when some computers are overclocked, the 3DMark2001 scores
> sometimes
> > drop because although running faster, some calculations are done less
> > accurately. Maybe this applies to video cards too.
>
> It could be that. It's related to the heat on the ram chips, for sure.
I've
> got to hand it to the 9800 Pro, though. It was hot enough to run slower,
but
> I never got any artifacts.
>
> Gary
>

I got a 9800 pro 2 weeks ago and after having it 10 days the artifacts
started happening all over the windows desktop. I never overclocked the card
either. So I took it back and put back my good old dependable radeon 9500
pro that has run perfect for over 2 years now. I wait until the next
generation of ati card comes out now.

"Lee Waun" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gPy3c.186283$Hy3.162140@edtnps89...
>
> "GTX_SlotCar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:c2md06$1v7scl$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "MaNiCaL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > I know when some computers are overclocked, the 3DMark2001 scores
> > sometimes
> > > drop because although running faster, some calculations are done less
> > > accurately. Maybe this applies to video cards too.
> >
> > It could be that. It's related to the heat on the ram chips, for sure.
> I've
> > got to hand it to the 9800 Pro, though. It was hot enough to run slower,
> but
> > I never got any artifacts.
> >
> > Gary
> >
>
> I got a 9800 pro 2 weeks ago and after having it 10 days the artifacts
> started happening all over the windows desktop. I never overclocked the
card
> either. So I took it back and put back my good old dependable radeon 9500
> pro that has run perfect for over 2 years now. I wait until the next
> generation of ati card comes out now.
>

I wouldn't give up on the 9800Pro just because you got a bad card. It
happens. There's thousands of happy 9800 owners that have never had any
problems with there cards. Now if you where on your second card and you
still had problem OK.
I'm also curious about all this talk of the next gen cards. They sound
great, but aren't we talking about PCI Express when we talk about the new
cards? So to have one will require a new motherboard right? And I bet these
MB's are going to be expensive when they first come out, not to mention how
much the new vid cards will be. It all sounds so great, but I bet it's going
to be at lest a year before the prices come down to what most people will be
willing to spend. So in my view my new $215 9800Pro is a steal that will get
me by in the meantime. JLC

JLC wrote:

>
> "Lee Waun" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:gPy3c.186283$Hy3.162140@edtnps89...
>>
>> "GTX_SlotCar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:c2md06$1v7scl$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > "MaNiCaL" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > > I know when some computers are overclocked, the 3DMark2001 scores
>> > sometimes
>> > > drop because although running faster, some calculations are done less
>> > > accurately. Maybe this applies to video cards too.
>> >
>> > It could be that. It's related to the heat on the ram chips, for sure.
>> I've
>> > got to hand it to the 9800 Pro, though. It was hot enough to run
>> > slower,
>> but
>> > I never got any artifacts.
>> >
>> > Gary
>> >
>>
>> I got a 9800 pro 2 weeks ago and after having it 10 days the artifacts
>> started happening all over the windows desktop. I never overclocked the
> card
>> either. So I took it back and put back my good old dependable radeon 9500
>> pro that has run perfect for over 2 years now. I wait until the next
>> generation of ati card comes out now.
>>
>
> I wouldn't give up on the 9800Pro just because you got a bad card. It
> happens. There's thousands of happy 9800 owners that have never had any
> problems with there cards. Now if you where on your second card and you
> still had problem OK.
> I'm also curious about all this talk of the next gen cards. They sound
> great, but aren't we talking about PCI Express when we talk about the new
> cards?

The PCI Express fanboys would have you believe that. It's a marketing
technique called "FUD"--Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I don't see any
official announcement by nvidia or ATI to the effect that their next
generation of video boards will not be available in AGP. They're going to
provide PCI-Express versions but that isn't the same as saying those will
be the _only_ versions.

> So to have one will require a new motherboard right? And I bet
> these MB's are going to be expensive when they first come out, not to
> mention how much the new vid cards will be. It all sounds so great, but I
> bet it's going to be at lest a year before the prices come down to what
> most people will be willing to spend.

It's going to be a year at the minimum before PCI Express is sufficiently
debugged to be ready for prime-time.

> So in my view my new $215 9800Pro is
> a steal that will get me by in the meantime. JLC

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)