Can I make Storage work thru two USB hubs?

Windows7 ultimate
Dell Dimension 4600

I need more usb ports and have exhausted my
options for internal ports.


I have a universal flash memory card reader with 4 card slots.
I think that means it has its own internal usb hub?

It works flawlessly when connected to a USB2.0 port
on the PC. If I run it thru a usb hub, I get
random lockups during data writes.
Works for small files and for about a dozen 4MB music
files before it locks up.

When it locks up, all four card slots disappear from
the drive list until I unplug/replug the card reader.

Removal policy is set at the default to defeat write cache.

I have no trouble with a usb2 thumb drive accessed through
the hub.

Symptoms point to a problem when two hubs are in series.

I don't have the option to connect the card reader directly
to the PC...other ports tied up on higher priority uses.

Are there any tricks I can use to make this work?
I'm thinking about writing a script to transfer only
one file at a time to (maybe??) eliminate queuing issues.

Ideas?
Thanks,mike

mike wrote:
> Symptoms point to a problem when two hubs are in series.
>
> I don't have the option to connect the card reader directly
> to the PC...other ports tied up on higher priority uses.
>
> Are there any tricks I can use to make this work?
> I'm thinking about writing a script to transfer only
> one file at a time to (maybe??) eliminate queuing issues.


Have you tried adding an USB PCI card?

Yousuf Khan

Yousuf Khan wrote:
> mike wrote:
>> Symptoms point to a problem when two hubs are in series.
>>
>> I don't have the option to connect the card reader directly
>> to the PC...other ports tied up on higher priority uses.
>>
>> Are there any tricks I can use to make this work?
>> I'm thinking about writing a script to transfer only
>> one file at a time to (maybe??) eliminate queuing issues.
>
>
> Have you tried adding an USB PCI card?
>
> Yousuf Khan

If you hadn't snipped my post, you'd have read,

"> I need more usb ports and have exhausted my
> options for internal ports. "

mike <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Can I make Storage work thru two USB hubs?
[...]

It seems that the Microsoft USB implementation is not fault
tolerant enough. Things that work on Linux without problem
fail on different versions of Windows with the same hardware.

So, no, it is likely not going to work with Windows. Although
there seem to be some specific hubs around that can compensate
for these shortcommings.

Arno

--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

Arno wrote:

> It seems that the Microsoft USB implementation is not fault
> tolerant enough. Things that work on Linux without problem
> fail on different versions of Windows with the same hardware.
>
> So, no, it is likely not going to work with Windows. Although
> there seem to be some specific hubs around that can compensate
> for these shortcommings.
>
> Arno
>
I have 2 external USB HDDs connected via 2 hubs and have no such issue
on XP or Win7. He didn't say if his hubs are self powered or not. You
must use powered hubs for it to be reliable.

Cronos <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Arno wrote:

>> It seems that the Microsoft USB implementation is not fault
>> tolerant enough. Things that work on Linux without problem
>> fail on different versions of Windows with the same hardware.
>>
>> So, no, it is likely not going to work with Windows. Although
>> there seem to be some specific hubs around that can compensate
>> for these shortcommings.
>>
>> Arno
>>
> I have 2 external USB HDDs connected via 2 hubs and have no such issue
> on XP or Win7. He didn't say if his hubs are self powered or not. You
> must use powered hubs for it to be reliable.

It may also fail with powered hubs. You must have hubs with the
right chipsets. You will create additional problems with cascading
unpowered hubs though, so you need to have the right hubs
and power them.

Since I typically don't have this problem, doing most work with
Linux, I cannot tell you which hubs to get. But a friend of
mine with a lot of USB devices had to search for a while
to find hubs that worked reliably with Windows. It seems this
problem is not limited to USB disks, but also applies other
devices.

Arno
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

mike wrote:
> Yousuf Khan wrote:
>> Have you tried adding an USB PCI card?
>>
>> Yousuf Khan
>
> If you hadn't snipped my post, you'd have read,
>
> "> I need more usb ports and have exhausted my
>> options for internal ports. "

I realize you said that, but I thought when you said "internal ports",
you just meant the internal SATA ports.

Yousuf Khan

Cronos wrote:
> I have 2 external USB HDDs connected via 2 hubs and have no such issue
> on XP or Win7. He didn't say if his hubs are self powered or not. You
> must use powered hubs for it to be reliable.

The same issue occurs with powered hubs too. And for the most part,
external hard drives are themselves self-powered too. I've had nothing
but trouble with USB ports with my previous motherboard. USB 2.0 hubs
would get detected as USB 1.1. USB hard disks would cause BSODs in the
kernel, etc.

Yousuf Khan

Arno wrote:

> It may also fail with powered hubs. You must have hubs with the
> right chipsets. You will create additional problems with cascading
> unpowered hubs though, so you need to have the right hubs
> and power them.
>
> Since I typically don't have this problem, doing most work with
> Linux, I cannot tell you which hubs to get. But a friend of
> mine with a lot of USB devices had to search for a while
> to find hubs that worked reliably with Windows. It seems this
> problem is not limited to USB disks, but also applies other
> devices.
>
> Arno

Oh well, I guess I got lucky then. Thing is that USB is designed to
support being daisy chained and can support 132? (not sure of exact
number) daisy chained devices so never heard of this issue before.

Yousuf Khan wrote:

> The same issue occurs with powered hubs too. And for the most part,
> external hard drives are themselves self-powered too. I've had nothing
> but trouble with USB ports with my previous motherboard. USB 2.0 hubs
> would get detected as USB 1.1. USB hard disks would cause BSODs in the
> kernel, etc.
>
> Yousuf Khan

What brand of hubs? I bought a passive 4 port Hub made by iogear and was
surprised it was so cheap compared to all the others in the store (even
other iogear hubs) and after buying it I found out why. Not one single
device was detected on the Hub and not on any of the 4 computers I tried
it on either. Back it went to the store for a refund. The Hub I daisy
chain off another Hub is made by Logiix and is good.