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Can I make it so that if my Master hard drive is set up as a Slave on another computer it can't be read?

 
 
michaaal
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      24th Nov 2003
In the past I have found that you can take any Windows 2000 Pro hard drive
and set it up as a slave on another Windows 2000 Pro hard drive and you can
read it. And if there is a permissions problem you can just "take
ownership" and the problem is solved.

Is there any way to make it so that my hard drive is not readable when put
into another computer as a slave?


 
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*Vanguard*
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      24th Nov 2003
michaaal wrote:
> In the past I have found that you can take any Windows 2000 Pro hard
> drive and set it up as a slave on another Windows 2000 Pro hard drive
> and you can read it. And if there is a permissions problem you can
> just "take ownership" and the problem is solved.
>
> Is there any way to make it so that my hard drive is not readable
> when put into another computer as a slave?


Use EFS.

The permissions for SIDs are controlled only by the instance of the OS
that created them. When you move the drive to another machine, it is
highly unlikely the same SIDs are created, and the SAM will be
different. Since the other instance of the OS has no info regarding
permissions on SIDs it didn't create, no [restrictive] permissions get
enforced. The only account that probably retains permissions is
Administrator since, I believe, Windows uses the same SID on every
install for the Administrator account. So permissions for Administrator
on one hard drive in one instance of Windows when the drive gets moved
to a different instance of Windows will still get those Administrator
permissions enforced. But, as you've mentioned, you can still take
permission by any account in the Administrators group (and the
Administrator on the second instance of Windows would have the same
permissions on the files as the Administrator on the drive from the
first instance of Windows). This is a big loophole in Windows
file-based security, but I'm not sure it's just a Windows defect. How
would any instance of an OS know how to enforce permissions on a drive
for files on which permissions were established for accounts in a
different instance of the OS? Those accounts are not known to the
second instance of the OS. I suppose one behavior would be to disallow
all access to any files in which permissions were defined for accounts
that were unknown (i.e., not defined in that instance of the OS).

If you use EFS (encrypting file system) to secure files and/or
directories, they won't be readable on the second instance of the OS to
which the drive gets moved. That's because the second instance of the
OS won't have the security certificate. So it behooves you to export
your certificates to floppy or CD media and lock it up. Then when you
have to move the drive, or after a fresh reinstall of Windows, you'll
have the security certificate to import to gain read access to the
EFS-protected files. Users on the other instance of Windows won't be
able to read the EFS-protected files. However, the Administrator might
still be able to read those files. EFS won't eliminate the
Administrator from taking ownership, but if you set permissions in EFS
to remove the Administrator account or group (i.e., only *your* account
is list) then they won't be able to see into the file. So you can use
EFS to even hide the contents of files from administrators, but you
won't stop them from changing ownership or permissions (so even if they
cannot see into the file, they can still steal it away from you and
prevent you from getting to it). Be sure to export the security
certificate(s) so you can recover from a fresh reinstall or when
migrating to another instance of the OS.


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michaaal
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      24th Nov 2003
Awesome. Do you know a good MS article on setting this up?
Thanks!

"*Vanguard*" <no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> michaaal wrote:
> > In the past I have found that you can take any Windows 2000 Pro hard
> > drive and set it up as a slave on another Windows 2000 Pro hard drive
> > and you can read it. And if there is a permissions problem you can
> > just "take ownership" and the problem is solved.
> >
> > Is there any way to make it so that my hard drive is not readable
> > when put into another computer as a slave?

>
> Use EFS.
>
> The permissions for SIDs are controlled only by the instance of the OS
> that created them. When you move the drive to another machine, it is
> highly unlikely the same SIDs are created, and the SAM will be
> different. Since the other instance of the OS has no info regarding
> permissions on SIDs it didn't create, no [restrictive] permissions get
> enforced. The only account that probably retains permissions is
> Administrator since, I believe, Windows uses the same SID on every
> install for the Administrator account. So permissions for Administrator
> on one hard drive in one instance of Windows when the drive gets moved
> to a different instance of Windows will still get those Administrator
> permissions enforced. But, as you've mentioned, you can still take
> permission by any account in the Administrators group (and the
> Administrator on the second instance of Windows would have the same
> permissions on the files as the Administrator on the drive from the
> first instance of Windows). This is a big loophole in Windows
> file-based security, but I'm not sure it's just a Windows defect. How
> would any instance of an OS know how to enforce permissions on a drive
> for files on which permissions were established for accounts in a
> different instance of the OS? Those accounts are not known to the
> second instance of the OS. I suppose one behavior would be to disallow
> all access to any files in which permissions were defined for accounts
> that were unknown (i.e., not defined in that instance of the OS).
>
> If you use EFS (encrypting file system) to secure files and/or
> directories, they won't be readable on the second instance of the OS to
> which the drive gets moved. That's because the second instance of the
> OS won't have the security certificate. So it behooves you to export
> your certificates to floppy or CD media and lock it up. Then when you
> have to move the drive, or after a fresh reinstall of Windows, you'll
> have the security certificate to import to gain read access to the
> EFS-protected files. Users on the other instance of Windows won't be
> able to read the EFS-protected files. However, the Administrator might
> still be able to read those files. EFS won't eliminate the
> Administrator from taking ownership, but if you set permissions in EFS
> to remove the Administrator account or group (i.e., only *your* account
> is list) then they won't be able to see into the file. So you can use
> EFS to even hide the contents of files from administrators, but you
> won't stop them from changing ownership or permissions (so even if they
> cannot see into the file, they can still steal it away from you and
> prevent you from getting to it). Be sure to export the security
> certificate(s) so you can recover from a fresh reinstall or when
> migrating to another instance of the OS.
>
>
> --
> ____________________________________________________________
> *** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. ***
> ____________________________________________________________
>
>
>



 
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*Vanguard*
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Posts: n/a
 
      24th Nov 2003
michaaal wrote:
> Awesome. Do you know a good MS article on setting this up?
> Thanks!
>
> "*Vanguard*" <no-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> michaaal wrote:
>>> In the past I have found that you can take any Windows 2000 Pro hard
>>> drive and set it up as a slave on another Windows 2000 Pro hard
>>> drive and you can read it. And if there is a permissions problem
>>> you can just "take ownership" and the problem is solved.
>>>
>>> Is there any way to make it so that my hard drive is not readable
>>> when put into another computer as a slave?

>>
>> Use EFS.
>>
>> The permissions for SIDs are controlled only by the instance of the
>> OS that created them. When you move the drive to another machine,
>> it is highly unlikely the same SIDs are created, and the SAM will be
>> different. Since the other instance of the OS has no info regarding
>> permissions on SIDs it didn't create, no [restrictive] permissions
>> get enforced. The only account that probably retains permissions is
>> Administrator since, I believe, Windows uses the same SID on every
>> install for the Administrator account. So permissions for
>> Administrator on one hard drive in one instance of Windows when the
>> drive gets moved to a different instance of Windows will still get
>> those Administrator permissions enforced. But, as you've mentioned,
>> you can still take permission by any account in the Administrators
>> group (and the Administrator on the second instance of Windows would
>> have the same permissions on the files as the Administrator on the
>> drive from the first instance of Windows). This is a big loophole
>> in Windows file-based security, but I'm not sure it's just a Windows
>> defect. How would any instance of an OS know how to enforce
>> permissions on a drive for files on which permissions were
>> established for accounts in a different instance of the OS? Those
>> accounts are not known to the second instance of the OS. I suppose
>> one behavior would be to disallow all access to any files in which
>> permissions were defined for accounts that were unknown (i.e., not
>> defined in that instance of the OS).
>>
>> If you use EFS (encrypting file system) to secure files and/or
>> directories, they won't be readable on the second instance of the OS
>> to which the drive gets moved. That's because the second instance
>> of the OS won't have the security certificate. So it behooves you
>> to export your certificates to floppy or CD media and lock it up.
>> Then when you have to move the drive, or after a fresh reinstall of
>> Windows, you'll have the security certificate to import to gain read
>> access to the EFS-protected files. Users on the other instance of
>> Windows won't be able to read the EFS-protected files. However, the
>> Administrator might still be able to read those files. EFS won't
>> eliminate the Administrator from taking ownership, but if you set
>> permissions in EFS to remove the Administrator account or group
>> (i.e., only *your* account is list) then they won't be able to see
>> into the file. So you can use EFS to even hide the contents of
>> files from administrators, but you won't stop them from changing
>> ownership or permissions (so even if they cannot see into the file,
>> they can still steal it away from you and prevent you from getting
>> to it). Be sure to export the security certificate(s) so you can
>> recover from a fresh reinstall or when migrating to another instance
>> of the OS.
>>
>>
>> --
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> *** Post replies to newsgroup. E-mail is not accepted. ***
>> ____________________________________________________________


http://support.microsoft.com/
Advanced Search.
Pick Windows 2000 as the product.
There should be plenty of matches on "EFS" or "Encrypted File System"
(exact phrase).


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