Actually, I did not notice that...C-sharp is about as in demand as
Assembler...how humiliating after all the hype!

Hehehe....

http://mshiltonj.com/sm/categories/languages/

And with Apache releasing its own Java app server, the demand for open
source Java developers continues to grow!

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040601/latu089_1.html

Why remain in the Microsoft treadmill when you can be part of the
fastest growing platform in history?

http://www.angrycoder.com/article.as...=2003&m=7&d=17

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 14:04:42 -0700, asj wrote:

> Why remain in the Microsoft treadmill when you can be part of the
> fastest growing platform in history?
>
> http://www.angrycoder.com/article.as...=2003&m=7&d=17

As much as *programmers* want stability in the tools, the customer, is
happy to watch the skill set erode with the delivery of simpler tools,
application servers, off-the-shelf and web based products ( to say nothing
of server blades, and other *utility* based IT ).

Like offshoring, these things make the cost of IT much lower for the
customer and bring down programmers fees to that of the average American.

Is it a big mistake ?

Should programmers be paid like customer service
representatives rather than demigods ?

Hi asj,

You wrote,
" And with Apache releasing its own Java app server,
^^^
the demand for open source Java developers
continues to grow ! "

Make that Applet server ... There's a Big difference.

And C++ would make better applets, In my opinion.
( Yes, C++ can be open source and cross-platform too )

Hi Hot Tamales !,

Re: Your endless envy.

You commented,
" Should programmers be paid like
customer service representatives rather than demigods ? "

I make 400 per month ... Is that low enough for you ?

Don't mistake lottery ticket stock options of yester year
with what the typical C++ programmer makes.

C++ programming is just plain fun.
Money is not the issue. ( And stop envying so much )

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 16:13:27 -0700, Jeff Relf wrote:

> Don't mistake lottery ticket stock options of yester year
> with what the typical C++ programmer makes.

I just checked my portfolio.

Internet and technology stocks have netted me a loss of approximately 20%.

FCEL, my one energy investment, has netted me a gain of 20%.

I think Energy ( cells, hydrogen, renewable, even nuclear ) are the next
wave.

* (E-Mail Removed) (asj) scripsit:
> And with Apache releasing its own Java app server, the demand for open
> source Java developers continues to grow!
>
> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040601/latu089_1.html

If I were a Java programmer, I would not need that. Much more important
is a fix to Java's crippled event model (that's only one example).

--
Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]
<URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/>

Hot Tamales ! wrote:
[snip]
> Should programmers be paid like customer service
> representatives rather than demigods ?

if you want your average programmer to be as qualified as your average
customer service representative, sure.

of course, we would then sit in a fly-by-wire 777 whose control software was
designed by someone who learned programming during a weekend seminar.

you go first. ;-)

-- j

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 17:02:37 -0700, Jörn W. Janneck wrote:

> Hot Tamales ! wrote:
> [snip]
>> Should programmers be paid like customer service
>> representatives rather than demigods ?
>
> if you want your average programmer to be as qualified as your average
> customer service representative, sure.

Are most programmers really that 'qualified'

I think there are a lot of *fakers* amoung us...

> of course, we would then sit in a fly-by-wire 777 whose control software was
> designed by someone who learned programming during a weekend seminar.

You miss my point.

What I'm saying is that with sophisticated platforms like .NET with
automatic garbage collection, we can substitute a lot of low paid
programmers, ala India, for a few high paid programmers.

So, the job no longer requires quite the twists and turns of what was
needed in the past, just a lot of reasonably competent people.

So, a .NET fly by wire, writen in Advanced XML, would require a lot of
$55,000 a year people, to basically make sure there were enough try/catch
blocks to insure stability.

But nobody would have to worry about null pointers, for instance, so why
pay big bucks ?

Hi Jörn W. Janneck,

Re: Low paid programmers.

You joked,
" if you want your average programmer
to be as qualified as your average
customer service representative, sure.

of course, we would then sit in a fly-by-wire 777
whose control software was designed by
someone who learned programming during a weekend seminar.
you go first. ;-) "

I've worked at Boeing's South Seattle plant.
( And my dad did too, for 14 years, 1957 - 1971.
Tool and die ... drawing stuff )

You were closer to the truth than you might imagine.

Hi Hot Tamales !,

For flying by wire ( i.e. via electronics ) ...

You suggested:
" sophisticated platforms like .NET
with automatic garbage collection "

And have the code lock up under random garbage collection
while trying to land a 747 in a rainstorm ? !

That'd be a bonanza for the 11 o'clock news.