+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ +
+ C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
+ Edition: 21 - 9/24/06 +
+ Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy +
+ +
+ Copyright (c) 2002-2006 Linux Reality Team +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.

OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!

Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
may find that you have better things you can do instead.

SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
--------------------------

1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
are not supported. If your lucky you might be able to find
something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.

1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
work. That's if the device is even supported.

1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
installation freezes or just stops?
A: You get to reboot and start all over again. This happens
every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
routines or something. Ain't Linux grand?

1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
hard drive space!
A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.

(more to come...)

SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
---------------------------

2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
programming, you might as well get used to it.

2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
A: These are command line programs that do things within the
system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
wants to type all the time when they can just click?!

(more to come...)

SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
----------------------------

3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
companies that make software won't write their programs for
Linux. There's a lot of community created programs out there,
and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
early in development.

3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
is that?
A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell. Different versions and
distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
will fail if they're not made for your specific version.

3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
what is a makefile?
A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
under Linux. When the question above fails, you can always
build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
where you just double click and you are done.

3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.

(more to come...)

SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
---------------------------

4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's. Even
the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program
that
is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days. So
working with old technology will give you the old technology
responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
compared to, say, Windows.

(more to come...)

SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
--------------------------

5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see
some
varying UI stile in Linux.

5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free. All the other
distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
hard to get to work. Why should they make it easy? The more
people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
other distros are using. In other words, they're all on about
the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
to another.

(more to come...)

SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
-----------------------------

6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a
common
answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
persons ego at the same time. See, Linux enthusiasts consider
themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
newbie. You have to earn your respect by spending countless
hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
any help.

6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using
Linux?
A: Same as above. When people use Linux they believe since it
takes
a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically
superior,
and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for
the
pathetic little Windows people.

(more to come...)

SECTION SEVEN - LINUX ADVOCACY, HELPING OR HURTING?
---------------------------------------------------

7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
if it isn't?
A: We really don't know. Maybe they've used Linux so long that
they've gotten used to it. Some of these people haven't used
Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last
windows
they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.

7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
questions linux?
A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
religion than an OS. They mostly are MS haters and feel that
Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing. So when
someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
system. Instead of looking at it with some logic and
reasonable
judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a
troll
or a paid MS supporter.

7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
point rationally. So to make it look like you are under them
or
you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.

(more to come...)
SECTION EIGHT - LINUX EVANGELISM, ZEALOTS
-----------------------------------------

8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
it like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of links
to anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so strongly?
A: The people that are reacting so strongly are most likely the
Linux extremists that believe everything negitive that is said about
Linux comes from Microsoft. Like many cult-like groups, the people
that belong to them don't have the ability to see things rationally
or outside of their view. If someone replies to the FAQ, or
anything questioning a non-favorable view on Linux, that seems a
little
"over the edge", do a google search on the person
(http://groups.google.com/) and look at his/her posting history
then decide for yourself if the person is credible or not.

(more to come...)

Please stop cross posting irrelevant content to the xp and vista.general
newsgroups.
Please confine your pro Linux content to the comp.os.linux.advocacy group
you are cross posting from.

--
Mike Brannigan

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

<... irrelevant content removed ...>

Mike Brannigan wrote:
> Please stop cross posting irrelevant content to the xp and vista.general
> newsgroups.
> Please confine your pro Linux content to the comp.os.linux.advocacy
> group you are cross posting from.
>

Please follow your own advice.

Alias

"Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> writes:

> Please stop cross posting irrelevant content to the xp and
> vista.general newsgroups.
> Please confine your pro Linux content to the comp.os.linux.advocacy
> group you are cross posting from.

That was anti-Linux. Can you not read?

"Hadron Quark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> writes:
>
>> Please stop cross posting irrelevant content to the xp and
>> vista.general newsgroups.
>> Please confine your pro Linux content to the comp.os.linux.advocacy
>> group you are cross posting from.
>
> That was anti-Linux. Can you not read?

In which case it was irrelevant to the Linux community and should not have
been cross posted their

--
Mike Brannigan

"Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> writes:

> "Hadron Quark" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> "Mike Brannigan" <Mike.Brannigan@localhost> writes:
>>
>>> Please stop cross posting irrelevant content to the xp and
>>> vista.general newsgroups.
>>> Please confine your pro Linux content to the comp.os.linux.advocacy
>>> group you are cross posting from.
>>
>> That was anti-Linux. Can you not read?
>
> In which case it was irrelevant to the Linux community and should not
> have been cross posted their

their what?

But seriously, your advice is much appreciated and I'm sure that now
you've told off a spammer posting under a nym then he won't do it again.

"Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.eu> wrote in message
news:ern3dv$5jf$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>> Please stop cross posting irrelevant content to the xp and vista.general
>> newsgroups.
>> Please confine your pro Linux content to the comp.os.linux.advocacy group
>> you are cross posting from.
>>
>
> Please follow your own advice.
>
> Alias


[Headers trimmed]

It's hard to know from which group the OP reads. So when one goes to tell a
person not to cross-post, one is almost forced to cross-post. However one
can take such a reply to really mean, please do not make any new original
posts cross-posted. At least that's how I'd take it.

The OP is a trolling, of course, hoping to stir things up by deliberately
cross-posting to both Microsoft newsgroups and COLA. People have been doing
that for years .. and years.

--
Saucy
--
Do not worry about the
contemptuous insult; what
the person says is what the
person is. - Proverbs, Bible.
--
For email:
guidsaucy at hotmail dot com

nym shifting coward and fraudulent asstroturfer
(E-Mail Removed) (forged email id) wrote on behalf of
micoshaft corporation:

> +

Vista Pista - who cares?

Pista launch has failed. Micoshaft stocks down!!!
De-Pistify your PC before its too late!!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+*********************************************************+
+**********Micoshaft*Pista*Newcomer*FAQ*and*Primer********+
+******************Edition:*21*-*9/24/06******************+
+************** **Group:*Pista*Installees*****************+
+*********************************************************+
+*******Copyright*(c)*2007*Pista*Removal*Reality*Team*****+
+************Sponsored*by*Micoshaft*Corporation***********+
+****************Released*Under*GPL*3*License*************+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Welcome to the Windopz De-Pistification FAQette.

WoW that was a mouthful wasn't it boys and girls?!

Have you De-Pistified your PC?

Let me explain:

You bought vista crap from our sponsor micoshaft corporation
and you realize after hours of reboots and re-installs
that our sponsor micoshaft has taken the **** out of you. So you
decide that this vista Pista is not for you.
Now you want to de-install Pista but expee takes up even
more hours and all your driver
diskettes are mislaid/lost and application cds are fscked
because your dog has been shagging it for some time, etc, etc, etc.
Oh Smuck is me you cry out in vain as your PC craps out on you
leaving you with nothing despite you having paid truck loads of money.

Then light at the end of the tunnel appears in the form
of Linux. Now you get angry and use Linux in anger to recover
you data. RAAAAARRRrrrr... you growl through into the night
recovering data, learning GNU/Linux and by midnight all your
work is done, your computers are working, you learned many
things and Linux with Beryl is the king. You can sleep in peace
knowing Linux is your friend and share your dreams
with others...

*Get*Linux*here...
*http://www.livecdlist.com
*http://www.distrowatch.com

*For*Beryl,*downloaded*latest*beta*release
*of*Ubuntu*(Feisty*Fawn)...
*http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-3/

*Install*Beryl*using*the*3*click*guide*which*links*from*here...
*http://wiki.beryl-project.org/wiki/I...eryl_on_Ubuntu

*And*so*WoW,*after*3*clicks,*you*have*Beryl*up*and*running*on*your*PC!!!
**
All that remains is now for you to stick the De-Pistification
Inventory label on your PC to complete the job...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+*********************************************************+
+*****************Windopz*De-Pistified*PC*****************+
+*******************OS:*Ubuntu*+*Beryl********************+
+******************Edition:*21*-*9/24/06******************+
+*******************SN:*69*68*69*96*69********************+
+*********************************************************+
+*******Copyright*(c)*2006*Pista*Removal*Reality*Team*****+
+****************Released*Under*GPL*3*License*************+
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Be sure to come back for more in the next installation
of Micoshaft Pista Removal FAQ and Primer - Edition 22.

"Saucy" <see@signature> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> It's hard to know from which group the OP reads. So when one goes to tell
> a person not to cross-post, one is almost forced to cross-post. However
> one can take such a reply to really mean, please do not make any new
> original posts cross-posted. At least that's how I'd take it.

If I where you, I wouldn't expect him to understand such things.

Lame!



<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> + +
> + C.O.L.A. Newcomer FAQ and Primer +
> + Edition: 21 - 9/24/06 +
> + Group: comp.os.linux.advocacy +
> + +
> + Copyright (c) 2002-2006 Linux Reality Team +
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Welcome to comp.os.linux.advocacy, otherwise known as cola. This
> FAQ will try to address most of the issues regarding Linux and
> this group. Unlike the other FAQs, this one will try to be as
> realistic as possible. If you want the straight information from
> real people, continue reading. If you would like to be told what
> you want to hear, or read a bunch of misinformation that you will
> regret later as you find things don't work as they should, feel free
> to read one of the other "FAQS" in here.
>
> OK, on to the info! ADDED NEW SECTION BELOW!
>
> Here's a list of some frequently asked and answered question here
> and elsewhere that you may find useful in your quest to try linux.
> Read these carefully before you decide to invest time in Linux, you
> may find that you have better things you can do instead.
>
> SECTION ONE - INSTALLATION
> --------------------------
>
> 1.1 Q: I heard linux was easy to install, is it?
> A: That depends on what distro you try. Most of them will have
> trouble detecting all your hardware. Most new hardware devices
> are not supported. If your lucky you might be able to find
> something that someone threw together on the net. But that's
> after spending a couple hours searching and probably won't take
> advantage of your hardware to it's fullest capability.
>
> 1.2 Q: Once I get it installed, then what?
> A: Then you get the joy of making sure everything is configured
> right. Plan on a minimum of two hours per device to get it to
> work. That's if the device is even supported.
>
> 1.3 Q: What happens if I'm in the middle of an install and the
> installation freezes or just stops?
> A: You get to reboot and start all over again. This happens
> every so often with Linux. It seems like it's buggy install
> routines or something. Ain't Linux grand?
>
> 1.4 Q: What's the deal?! I installed Linux and it took up almost 2GB
> hard drive space!
> A: The Linux distros usually install a LOT of never-used programs
> on the default install. You can pick and choose what you want,
> but good luck figuring out what programs are needed and what is
> useless, obscure tools. Linux usually installs stuff like 10
> different editors, 12 different mail clients, and so on.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION TWO - CONFIGURATION
> ---------------------------
>
> 2.1 Q: What's with all these cryptic files?
> A: All of Linux is configured with cryptic text files. Some of
> the more user-friendly distros have configuration utilities
> that claim to do it for you, but success with these works
> sometimes and other times don't, so sometimes you have to
> edit them by hand. With Linux's spotty reliability in UI
> programming, you might as well get used to it.
>
> 2.2 Q: What is killall, HUP, ls, cat, rm, which, etc and why are
> these programs telling me to do them? Arggg!!
> A: These are command line programs that do things within the
> system. It's what makes Linux a powerful OS for those that
> are experienced with it. But it's also what makes it a pain
> in the arse to use and inefficient as a desktop system. Who
> wants to type all the time when they can just click?!
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION THREE - APPLICATIONS
> ----------------------------
>
> 3.1 Q: Where can I get some programs to run on linux?
> A: Good question. Because Linux doesn't have a large user base
> on the desktop,(I think it's about 0.24%, less than 1%)
> companies that make software won't write their programs for
> Linux. There's a lot of community created programs out there,
> and some are fairly good, but those are few and far between.
> Most of the Linux software that tries to mimic it's windows
> counterpart is substandard. It's usually slow and buggy and
> early in development.
>
> 3.2 Q: I tried to install an RPM but I got 'failed dependencies', what
> is that?
> A: That's Linux's version of DLL hell. Different versions and
> distros use different libraries. So unlike windows where
> programs will run on many different versions, Linux programs
> will fail if they're not made for your specific version.
>
> 3.3 Q: What is compiling and configure, make and make install? And
> what is a makefile?
> A: This is a way to build the programs from the source code
> under Linux. When the question above fails, you can always
> build it yourself. The advantage is that it works most of
> the time. The disadvantage is that it takes forever to build
> large programs, you need to know some cryptic commands and
> you have to do all this on a command line. Unlike Windows
> where you just double click and you are done.
>
> 3.4 Q: Can I go to my local store to buy any Linux applications?
> A: Not really. You can buy Linux itself at various stores. But
> not too many commercial companies make applications for Linux,
> there's no profit in it with 0.24% of the desktop market.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION FOUR - SPEED ISSUES
> ---------------------------
>
> 4.1 Q: Why is Linux so slow?
> A: Linux is built on the technology of the old UNIX OS's. Even
> the graphical user interface of Linux is a separate program
> that
> is the same type they used back in the older UNIX days. So
> working with old technology will give you the old technology
> responsiveness. Also, a lot of the GUI's, although nice to look
> at, are still not mature. Using them is slow and sluggish
> compared to, say, Windows.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION FIVE - CONSISTENCY
> --------------------------
>
> 5.1 Q: Why are the windows different looking?
> A: Since Linux isn't built by one company, group or have any
> governing body, programs and interfaces can vary dramatically.
> You can have everything from the nice look of KDE, to something
> as ugly as TK and everything in between. You'll usually see
> some
> varying UI stile in Linux.
>
> 5.2 Q: Should I buy Suse Linux?
> A: No. They make it difficult to get it for free. All the other
> distros provide free ISO's to download. Suse is the only one
> that doesn't provide them but instead has a FTP install that's
> hard to get to work. Why should they make it easy? The more
> people that can't get the download to work have to spend $80
> or more for the boxed set. And on top of all that although
> it might have a few more user friendly tools, it's still the
> same base Linux system that's in development and that all the
> other distros are using. In other words, they're all on about
> the same level of struggling to catch up to Windows, so you're
> not going to find any earth-shattering features in one compared
> to another.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION SIX - LINUX COMMUNITY
> -----------------------------
>
> 6.1 Q: What is RTFM?!
> A: This is an acronym for Read The Fuc*ing Manual. This is a
> common
> answer you'll get when asking for help in the Linux community.
> It's meant to make you feel inadequate while boating the Linux
> persons ego at the same time. See, Linux enthusiasts consider
> themselves to be guru like and above helping out the simple
> newbie. You have to earn your respect by spending countless
> hours becoming a kernel hacker before you're worthy of getting
> any help.
>
> 6.2 Q: Why does everyone think they are better than you when using
> Linux?
> A: Same as above. When people use Linux they believe since it
> takes
> a little more knowledge to use Linux, they are technically
> superior,
> and see themselves as an elite group that doesn't have time for
> the
> pathetic little Windows people.
>
> (more to come...)
>
> SECTION SEVEN - LINUX ADVOCACY, HELPING OR HURTING?
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> 7.1 Q: Everyone in here says linux is perfect, why would they say that
> if it isn't?
> A: We really don't know. Maybe they've used Linux so long that
> they've gotten used to it. Some of these people haven't used
> Windows in years so they are comparing Linux to the last
> windows
> they used, maybe Windows 3.1 or 95.
>
> 7.2 Q: Why does everyone call you a troll when you ask something that
> questions linux?
> A: Most of the people here in C.O.L.A. think of Linux more like a
> religion than an OS. They mostly are MS haters and feel that
> Linux is the greatest thing to ever hit computing. So when
> someone questions Linux it's like questioning their belief
> system. Instead of looking at it with some logic and
> reasonable
> judgment, they will lash out at you can't claim your are a
> troll
> or a paid MS supporter.
>
> 7.3 Q: Why does everyone <PLONK> you if you question Linux?
> A: Fairly similar to above, Linux advocates can not argue their
> point rationally. So to make it look like you are under them
> or
> you are not worth it, and at the same time find an easy way out
> of having to prove themselves, they will <PLONK> you.
>
> (more to come...)
> SECTION EIGHT - LINUX EVANGELISM, ZEALOTS
> -----------------------------------------
>
> 8.1 Q: There are some people that call this FAQ lies and seem to treat
> it like it's a conspiracy against them, and post all sorts of links
> to anti-microsoft articles. Why are they reacting so strongly?
> A: The people that are reacting so strongly are most likely the
> Linux extremists that believe everything negitive that is said about
> Linux comes from Microsoft. Like many cult-like groups, the people
> that belong to them don't have the ability to see things rationally
> or outside of their view. If someone replies to the FAQ, or
> anything questioning a non-favorable view on Linux, that seems a
> little
> "over the edge", do a google search on the person
> (http://groups.google.com/) and look at his/her posting history
> then decide for yourself if the person is credible or not.
>
> (more to come...)
>