So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
Crysis and the like.

I was thinking about nVidia 8800GT. However, its length is 23 cm, and
the available space in my PC case is 22 cm. So, no 8800GT... maybe,
the Gigabyte version with the Zalman cooler and the non-reference PCB
which is 21 cm long.

The alternative is ATI HD3870. "Triplex" from Taiwan released the 3870
card with a non-reference PCB which has a length of 19 cm, and thus
will fit my case. Those cards were sold exclusively in China, but
started to pop up in the USA, Australia and Germany as seen on eBay.

I was contemplating by such a card from eBay, but the price in here is
still high (~ US$250) even inspite the advertised decrease of the
price of the card by AMD from US$250 to $190.

This decrease was inspired by the announcement of 9600GT by nVidia. It
perfroms almost as good as HD3870, but costs $170. I think I like the
idea of 9600GT more... but this card is long ! -- I cannot fit it into
my case -- it is as long as the reference 8800GT.

I did an extensive reading on the INternet, and it came out why the
performance of 9600GT is as good as that of HD3870 even if it has a
less powerful hardware. The first reason is that nVidia optimised
their hardware for fps performance in gaming. Secondly, the RV670 chip
in HD3870 has a flaw: it has a software implementation of anti-
aliasing (which I need for SH4) instead of hardware one. Moreover, the
AA is via the so-called "tent" function, which just averages over the
neighborhood, and thus makes the sharp details look muddy. You do not
always need that ! What's more (and very serious), nVidia seems to
come up often with the updated drivers for the latest games; ATI is
not doing it, and it is not known whether they will provide such a
support after being acquised by AMD.

In short, I could wait for half a year more, and probably buy an
HD3870 for $160-190. Or, I could wait the same half a year, and
possibly buy 9600GT for $150-170 (and a new case, or wait for a
shorter non-reference PCB design ?). Or, I could buy right now the
grey-import HD3870 (from China tailored for the Chinese market with
the Chinese quality) for $260. What do you think guys ?

for budget i'd go for a 8800GT then overclock it. 512mb or 1gig versions
best. faling that the 8800gtx
"Beladi Nasrallah" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44a7fc7c-70a0-4415-8252-(E-Mail Removed)...
> So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
> 7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
> at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
> Crysis and the like.
>
> I was thinking about nVidia 8800GT. However, its length is 23 cm, and
> the available space in my PC case is 22 cm. So, no 8800GT... maybe,
> the Gigabyte version with the Zalman cooler and the non-reference PCB
> which is 21 cm long.
>
> The alternative is ATI HD3870. "Triplex" from Taiwan released the 3870
> card with a non-reference PCB which has a length of 19 cm, and thus
> will fit my case. Those cards were sold exclusively in China, but
> started to pop up in the USA, Australia and Germany as seen on eBay.
>
> I was contemplating by such a card from eBay, but the price in here is
> still high (~ US$250) even inspite the advertised decrease of the
> price of the card by AMD from US$250 to $190.
>
> This decrease was inspired by the announcement of 9600GT by nVidia. It
> perfroms almost as good as HD3870, but costs $170. I think I like the
> idea of 9600GT more... but this card is long ! -- I cannot fit it into
> my case -- it is as long as the reference 8800GT.
>
> I did an extensive reading on the INternet, and it came out why the
> performance of 9600GT is as good as that of HD3870 even if it has a
> less powerful hardware. The first reason is that nVidia optimised
> their hardware for fps performance in gaming. Secondly, the RV670 chip
> in HD3870 has a flaw: it has a software implementation of anti-
> aliasing (which I need for SH4) instead of hardware one. Moreover, the
> AA is via the so-called "tent" function, which just averages over the
> neighborhood, and thus makes the sharp details look muddy. You do not
> always need that ! What's more (and very serious), nVidia seems to
> come up often with the updated drivers for the latest games; ATI is
> not doing it, and it is not known whether they will provide such a
> support after being acquised by AMD.
>
> In short, I could wait for half a year more, and probably buy an
> HD3870 for $160-190. Or, I could wait the same half a year, and
> possibly buy 9600GT for $150-170 (and a new case, or wait for a
> shorter non-reference PCB design ?). Or, I could buy right now the
> grey-import HD3870 (from China tailored for the Chinese market with
> the Chinese quality) for $260. What do you think guys ?
>

Get a new case first then you will not be handicapped on your choices, full
towers are easier to keep cool or do water cooling if you want to go that
way.
a full tower case with out powersuply will cost you less than $75 with free
shipping if you hunt around.

look for a used one in the case moding forums some times a really nice case
comes up cheap.

then after you have a new case get the 8800GT XFX and overclock the crap out
of it or the evga for the stup up program.

http://hardforum.com/index.php
http://www.ocforums.com/index.php?s=

that is a few to start with just scroll down till you fine the for sale and
cyber deals threads


"Beladi Nasrallah" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44a7fc7c-70a0-4415-8252-(E-Mail Removed)...
> So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
> 7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
> at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
> Crysis and the like.
>
> I was thinking about nVidia 8800GT. However, its length is 23 cm, and
> the available space in my PC case is 22 cm. So, no 8800GT... maybe,
> the Gigabyte version with the Zalman cooler and the non-reference PCB
> which is 21 cm long.
>
> The alternative is ATI HD3870. "Triplex" from Taiwan released the 3870
> card with a non-reference PCB which has a length of 19 cm, and thus
> will fit my case. Those cards were sold exclusively in China, but
> started to pop up in the USA, Australia and Germany as seen on eBay.
>
> I was contemplating by such a card from eBay, but the price in here is
> still high (~ US$250) even inspite the advertised decrease of the
> price of the card by AMD from US$250 to $190.
>
> This decrease was inspired by the announcement of 9600GT by nVidia. It
> perfroms almost as good as HD3870, but costs $170. I think I like the
> idea of 9600GT more... but this card is long ! -- I cannot fit it into
> my case -- it is as long as the reference 8800GT.
>
> I did an extensive reading on the INternet, and it came out why the
> performance of 9600GT is as good as that of HD3870 even if it has a
> less powerful hardware. The first reason is that nVidia optimised
> their hardware for fps performance in gaming. Secondly, the RV670 chip
> in HD3870 has a flaw: it has a software implementation of anti-
> aliasing (which I need for SH4) instead of hardware one. Moreover, the
> AA is via the so-called "tent" function, which just averages over the
> neighborhood, and thus makes the sharp details look muddy. You do not
> always need that ! What's more (and very serious), nVidia seems to
> come up often with the updated drivers for the latest games; ATI is
> not doing it, and it is not known whether they will provide such a
> support after being acquised by AMD.
>
> In short, I could wait for half a year more, and probably buy an
> HD3870 for $160-190. Or, I could wait the same half a year, and
> possibly buy 9600GT for $150-170 (and a new case, or wait for a
> shorter non-reference PCB design ?). Or, I could buy right now the
> grey-import HD3870 (from China tailored for the Chinese market with
> the Chinese quality) for $260. What do you think guys ?
>

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:51:39 GMT, ZoNeHeaD® <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>for budget i'd go for a 8800GT then overclock it. 512mb or 1gig versions
>best. faling that the 8800gtx

Not if the OP stated the card won't fit into his PC physically. His
post stated the standard version is 23cm long and his PC can only hold
max of 22cm.

Personally if it's the drive cage that are in the way and it's not
used, I'd use dremmel and cut out a small notch, just big enough to
allow the card to fit. Finally some anti-static pad around the end to
keep the board from bumping into metal part and frying something.

Beladi Nasrallah wrote:
> So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
> 7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
> at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
> Crysis and the like.

9xxx is coming;...

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (Xubuntu 7.04) Linux 2.6.24.2
^ ^ 23:31:01 up 12 days 13:31 0 users load average: 0.15 0.05 0.01
? ? (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...ub_addressesa/

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:31:46 +0800, Man-wai Chang ToDie
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Beladi Nasrallah wrote:
>> So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
>> 7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
>> at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
>> Crysis and the like.
>
>9xxx is coming;...

Yea, so is 10xxx and 11xxx. And 4870 or whatever ATI will call their
next card.

Nvidia 8800GT is where it's at right now, go with that if you can. The
9600 is lower perfomance than the 8800. Way to number cards NVidia.
I abandoned ship from AMD/ATI for the first time in many years when up
upgraded my struggling AMD 3000+/9800 Pro with an Intel 6850/8800GT.

Tim

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:49:18 -0500, Tim O <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:


>Nvidia 8800GT is where it's at right now, go with that if you can. The
>9600 is lower perfomance than the 8800. Way to number cards NVidia.
>I abandoned ship from AMD/ATI for the first time in many years when up
>upgraded my struggling AMD 3000+/9800 Pro with an Intel 6850/8800GT.

It looks like I'm going to be following you. I have an X1800XL which
is no slouch but I'm about convinced that it's time for a DX10 card.
I'm quite keen to see Crysis in DX10 and dead keen to see Hellgate:
London in DX10. I'm almost certain that I'll be going for the 8800GT
card.

That means buying Vista too, so it's quite a time of change for me. I
need a new CPU as well. I don't think my 3.0 GHZ Pentium 4 is really a
viable gaming CPU anymore. I've hung on to it for ages now.

--
Rob

"Beladi Nasrallah" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:44a7fc7c-70a0-4415-8252-(E-Mail Removed)...
> So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
> 7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
> at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
> Crysis and the like.
>
> I was thinking about nVidia 8800GT. However, its length is 23 cm, and
> the available space in my PC case is 22 cm. So, no 8800GT... maybe,
> the Gigabyte version with the Zalman cooler and the non-reference PCB
> which is 21 cm long.

What brand/model of case do you have?

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:58:25 +0000, Mr Rob
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:49:18 -0500, Tim O <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Nvidia 8800GT is where it's at right now, go with that if you can. The
>>9600 is lower perfomance than the 8800. Way to number cards NVidia.
>>I abandoned ship from AMD/ATI for the first time in many years when up
>>upgraded my struggling AMD 3000+/9800 Pro with an Intel 6850/8800GT.
>
>It looks like I'm going to be following you. I have an X1800XL which
>is no slouch but I'm about convinced that it's time for a DX10 card.
>I'm quite keen to see Crysis in DX10 and dead keen to see Hellgate:
>London in DX10. I'm almost certain that I'll be going for the 8800GT
>card.
>
>That means buying Vista too, so it's quite a time of change for me. I
>need a new CPU as well. I don't think my 3.0 GHZ Pentium 4 is really a
>viable gaming CPU anymore. I've hung on to it for ages now.

I'm running XP, and there is a text hack that enables much of the Very
High graphics settings in Crysis. It put a whooping on my frame rate
through. I went from the mid-high 30's to the low 20's and switched it
back to maintain a higher frame rate for multi-player.

I think that is the only game that I don't have the graphics pegged
on. STALKER and COD4 ran great at 1600x1200 with everything pegged
(with texture mods in STALKER to make it look better), and UT3 is like
glass with everything pegged. Only other demanding game I have is
Rainbow Six Vegas, which is a bit old and not too much of a challenge.

Very happy with this upgrade so far, it has basically renewed my
interest in PC gaming. Turning Point:Fall Of Liberty is out in a
couple days, can't wait to check that out.

Tim

Tim O wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:31:46 +0800, Man-wai Chang ToDie
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Beladi Nasrallah wrote:
>>> So, I decided to buy a new videocard. Presently, I have an nVidia
>>> 7600GT. It plays a lot, if not most of the games of the past 2 years
>>> at the settings close to maximum. But I wanted to be able to play
>>> Crysis and the like.
>> 9xxx is coming;...
>
> Yea, so is 10xxx and 11xxx. And 4870 or whatever ATI will call their
> next card.
>
> Nvidia 8800GT is where it's at right now, go with that if you can. The
> 9600 is lower perfomance than the 8800. Way to number cards NVidia.
> I abandoned ship from AMD/ATI for the first time in many years when up
> upgraded my struggling AMD 3000+/9800 Pro with an Intel 6850/8800GT.
>
> Tim

What a dumb comment. Anyone familiar with technology knows that
technology progress is not a linear function of time. Buying a top card
of the time at the right time can mean that you are close to the cutting
edge for a year or more. Buying a top card of the time at the wrong time
can see it superseded in a month - effectively wasting your money.

The new cards from nvidia are due in the next month. Given that the top
cards of the moment cannot even play current games at high resolution
(eg, Crysis), waiting a month doesn't sound like a bad idea.