Neighbor's about to trash a Dell Dimension 8200.

The thing's older than dirt, but seems like a nice case - albeit
probably infamously Dell-proprietary.

Aside from being a decent size and easy to pick up, the thing
also has an XP Home license sticker with product key on it.

Occurs to me that, if I need to build a PC for somebody in the
future, this case might save me 30-40 bucks.... and I'm a diehard
XP fan so....

So.... How incompatible is it? Anybody built up another mobo in
one?
--
PeteCresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Neighbor's about to trash a Dell Dimension 8200.
>
> The thing's older than dirt, but seems like a nice case - albeit
> probably infamously Dell-proprietary.
>
> Aside from being a decent size and easy to pick up, the thing
> also has an XP Home license sticker with product key on it.
>
> Occurs to me that, if I need to build a PC for somebody in the
> future, this case might save me 30-40 bucks.... and I'm a diehard
> XP fan so....
>
> So.... How incompatible is it? Anybody built up another mobo in
> one?
> --
> PeteCresswell

As long as an ATX MB would line up with the expansion slots, I don't see any
problem. Of course, you'll need an ATX power supply if the 8200 doesn't have
one, or if it's a really old low power one.
I put an ATX board in an old AT full tower I had, and I don't recall having
to do anything special. IIRC, I had to change the power switch on the front
to a momentary contact one instead of using the push on-push off switch that
was originally in it.
--
SC Tom

(PeteCresswell) wrote:

> Neighbor's about to trash a Dell Dimension 8200.
>
> The thing's older than dirt, but seems like a nice case - albeit
> probably infamously Dell-proprietary.
>
> Aside from being a decent size and easy to pick up, the thing
> also has an XP Home license sticker with product key on it.
>
> Occurs to me that, if I need to build a PC for somebody in the
> future, this case might save me 30-40 bucks.... and I'm a diehard
> XP fan so....
>
> So.... How incompatible is it? Anybody built up another mobo in
> one?

You thought just a case alone constitutes a computer (to which the
license is tied)? It has a Windows XP Home license sticker on it yet
you never bother to mention if it is a retail or OEM license. Retail
licenses can move, OEM licenses do not. If the computer burns up in a
fire, gets stolen, lost in a divorce, or you choose to toss the hardware
then the OEM license goes with it.

A copy of the license for you to read gets deposited in the following
folder:

C:\WINDOWS\system32\eula.txt

Only you, so far, know if you have a retail or OEM license. If it's a
retail license then you can move it. It it's an OEM license then it
sticks to the old computer. The OEM license does not preclude you from
replacing components that become defective or upgrading them, like
adding or replacing memory or getting larger hard disks (and therein
lies logic used by some users that an OEM license can have the computer
so overly upgraded that it becomes a wholly new computer).

http://www.google.com/search?q=how+t...+retail+or+oem

> I could tell you a first hand horror story here about "taking out a
> motherboard" after replacing its power supply with a standard replacement,
> but I'll spare you. :-)
>

I was upgrading an old Dell XPS R400. I had a fairly new Antec standard ATX
PSU in another computer which was more powerful. As you probably know, Dell
motherboards from that era included a funny practical joke for computer
hobbyists who know just enough to be dangerous. The power supply connector
accepted a standard ATX plug but was wired differently. I hooked the PSU up
& nothing worked. I shelved the Antec & bought a new proprietary Dell PSU on
line. Recently I opened the Antec & any component that contained any type of
fluid looked like it threw up. It was fried. The Dell is still running. I
don't use it anymore but it is built like a tank (1998). It is amazing that
a PSU could fail like that & not take out the motherboard or anything
plugged into it.
Rich

On Sat, 14 May 2011 01:31:00 -0700, "Rich" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> I could tell you a first hand horror story here about "taking out a
>> motherboard" after replacing its power supply with a standard replacement,
>> but I'll spare you. :-)
>>
>
> I was upgrading an old Dell XPS R400. I had a fairly new Antec standard ATX
>PSU in another computer which was more powerful. As you probably know, Dell
>motherboards from that era included a funny practical joke for computer
>hobbyists who know just enough to be dangerous. The power supply connector
>accepted a standard ATX plug but was wired differently. I hooked the PSU up
>& nothing worked. I shelved the Antec & bought a new proprietary Dell PSU on
>line. Recently I opened the Antec & any component that contained any type of
>fluid looked like it threw up. It was fried. The Dell is still running. I
>don't use it anymore but it is built like a tank (1998). It is amazing that
>a PSU could fail like that & not take out the motherboard or anything
>plugged into it.
>Rich

This is good to know. I got a Dell from a friend 6 months ago or
more, missing only the harddrive, but the guy who had worked on it
said he might need a powersupply. It's working fine now without a new
one, but I'll be sure to stick to Dell-spec psu's if I need one. I
don't want fried vomited fluids.

Of course if only Dells from one era are like this, that must mean
there are two different kinds of Dell PSUs. Darn.

mm wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2011 01:31:00 -0700, "Rich" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> I could tell you a first hand horror story here about "taking out a
>>> motherboard" after replacing its power supply with a standard replacement,
>>> but I'll spare you. :-)
>>>
>> I was upgrading an old Dell XPS R400. I had a fairly new Antec standard ATX
>> PSU in another computer which was more powerful. As you probably know, Dell
>> motherboards from that era included a funny practical joke for computer
>> hobbyists who know just enough to be dangerous. The power supply connector
>> accepted a standard ATX plug but was wired differently. I hooked the PSU up
>> & nothing worked. I shelved the Antec & bought a new proprietary Dell PSU on
>> line. Recently I opened the Antec & any component that contained any type of
>> fluid looked like it threw up. It was fried. The Dell is still running. I
>> don't use it anymore but it is built like a tank (1998). It is amazing that
>> a PSU could fail like that & not take out the motherboard or anything
>> plugged into it.
>> Rich
>
> This is good to know. I got a Dell from a friend 6 months ago or
> more, missing only the harddrive, but the guy who had worked on it
> said he might need a powersupply. It's working fine now without a new
> one, but I'll be sure to stick to Dell-spec psu's if I need one. I
> don't want fried vomited fluids.
>
> Of course if only Dells from one era are like this, that must mean
> there are two different kinds of Dell PSUs. Darn.

If the original supply is working, you can "do a lap of the pins"
with a multimeter, and verify the voltages in preparation for
shopping for a supply. With the main connector connected to the motherboard,
you can poke a meter tip into each "cell" in the nylon connector shell,
and touch the metal hidden inside there. That's how you get a "live"
voltage reading. Be very careful, not to short something! If
you're a butter fingers, find someone else to help you.

It's harder, if the supply died on you, to tell whether it is custom
or it is standard. Standard supplies, generally are pretty good
at using the right wire colors. But I would not rely on wire color
as a guarantee of correctness. It's all too easy for a manufacturer
to get lazy, or use wire insulation that doesn't have well defined
color. And since a certain percentage of the population has color
blindness of one sort or another, for those people, the color test
will be inconclusive.

ATX power supply specs, from oldest to newest.

http://web.archive.org/web/200304240...12V_PS_1_1.pdf (page 27)

http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (page 30)

http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf (page 37)

*******

@ Rich

If the "vomit" inside the supply, looked like the orange deposits here,
that is a "bad capacitor" problem. I have a low-service-hours Antec
here (actually made by Channelwell CWT), and it looks like this.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague )

The first evidence of a problem, is when the computer crashed just
after power up. Since the supply was no longer covered by warranty,
I removed the four screws holding the lid, and had a look, and found
signs of leakage. Antec supplies are made by a variety of manufacturers,
and the contract manufacturing source can vary from year to year.
HEC, CWT, Delta, Seasonic to name a few. There are other guys out
there, who keep better track of this than I do.

Paul

On Sat, 14 May 2011 06:44:43 -0400, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2011 01:31:00 -0700, "Rich" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>> I could tell you a first hand horror story here about "taking out a
>>>> motherboard" after replacing its power supply with a standard replacement,
>>>> but I'll spare you. :-)
>>>>
>>> I was upgrading an old Dell XPS R400. I had a fairly new Antec standard ATX
>>> PSU in another computer which was more powerful. As you probably know, Dell
>>> motherboards from that era included a funny practical joke for computer
>>> hobbyists who know just enough to be dangerous. The power supply connector
>>> accepted a standard ATX plug but was wired differently. I hooked the PSU up
>>> & nothing worked. I shelved the Antec & bought a new proprietary Dell PSU on
>>> line. Recently I opened the Antec & any component that contained any type of
>>> fluid looked like it threw up. It was fried. The Dell is still running. I
>>> don't use it anymore but it is built like a tank (1998). It is amazing that
>>> a PSU could fail like that & not take out the motherboard or anything
>>> plugged into it.
>>> Rich
>>
>> This is good to know. I got a Dell from a friend 6 months ago or
>> more, missing only the harddrive, but the guy who had worked on it
>> said he might need a powersupply. It's working fine now without a new
>> one, but I'll be sure to stick to Dell-spec psu's if I need one. I
>> don't want fried vomited fluids.
>>
>> Of course if only Dells from one era are like this, that must mean
>> there are two different kinds of Dell PSUs. Darn.
>
>If the original supply is working, you can "do a lap of the pins"
>with a multimeter, and verify the voltages in preparation for
>shopping for a supply. With the main connector connected to the motherboard,
>you can poke a meter tip into each "cell" in the nylon connector shell,
>and touch the metal hidden inside there. That's how you get a "live"
>voltage reading. Be very careful, not to short something! If
>you're a butter fingers, find someone else to help you.

I can do that. I'm only a butter fingers when I'm with a girl.

>It's harder, if the supply died on you, to tell whether it is custom
>or it is standard. Standard supplies, generally are pretty good
>at using the right wire colors. But I would not rely on wire color
>as a guarantee of correctness. It's all too easy for a manufacturer
>to get lazy, or use wire insulation that doesn't have well defined
>color. And since a certain percentage of the population has color
>blindness of one sort or another, for those people, the color test
>will be inconclusive.
>
>ATX power supply specs, from oldest to newest.
>
>http://web.archive.org/web/200304240...12V_PS_1_1.pdf (page 27)
>
>http://www.formfactors.org/developer...X12V_1_3dg.pdf (page 30)
>
>http://www.formfactors.org/developer...public_br2.pdf (page 37)

Thanks. I haven't been using the Dell I referred to for much, and
maybe when I'm using all features at the same time, the PSU will not
like it. Or the next computer, so I'll save these pdf's.
>
>*******
>
>@ Rich
>
>If the "vomit" inside the supply, looked like the orange deposits here,
>that is a "bad capacitor" problem. I have a low-service-hours Antec
>here (actually made by Channelwell CWT), and it looks like this.
>
>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg
>
>( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague )
>
>The first evidence of a problem, is when the computer crashed just
>after power up. Since the supply was no longer covered by warranty,
>I removed the four screws holding the lid, and had a look, and found
>signs of leakage. Antec supplies are made by a variety of manufacturers,
>and the contract manufacturing source can vary from year to year.
>HEC, CWT, Delta, Seasonic to name a few. There are other guys out
>there, who keep better track of this than I do.
>
> Paul

On Sat, 14 May 2011 17:54:11 -0600, "Bill in Co"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 May 2011 01:31:00 -0700, "Rich" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>> I could tell you a first hand horror story here about "taking out a
>>>> motherboard" after replacing its power supply with a standard
>>>> replacement,
>>>> but I'll spare you. :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I was upgrading an old Dell XPS R400. I had a fairly new Antec standard
>>> ATX
>>> PSU in another computer which was more powerful. As you probably know,
>>> Dell
>>> motherboards from that era included a funny practical joke for computer
>>> hobbyists who know just enough to be dangerous. The power supply
>>> connector
>>> accepted a standard ATX plug but was wired differently. I hooked the PSU
>>> up
>>> & nothing worked. I shelved the Antec & bought a new proprietary Dell PSU
>>> on
>>> line. Recently I opened the Antec & any component that contained any type
>>> of
>>> fluid looked like it threw up. It was fried. The Dell is still running. I
>>> don't use it anymore but it is built like a tank (1998). It is amazing
>>> that
>>> a PSU could fail like that & not take out the motherboard or anything
>>> plugged into it.
>>> Rich
>>
>> This is good to know. I got a Dell from a friend 6 months ago or
>> more, missing only the harddrive, but the guy who had worked on it
>> said he might need a powersupply. It's working fine now without a new
>> one, but I'll be sure to stick to Dell-spec psu's if I need one. I
>> don't want fried vomited fluids.
>>
>> Of course if only Dells from one era are like this, that must mean
>> there are two different kinds of Dell PSUs. Darn.
>
>There was an article on this somewhere talking about which Dell computers
>(which vintage) had this issue, and giving some postulates as to why it was
>done. One theory was that Dell wanted you to buy *their own* power supply.
>
>At any rate, I don't think it's the case now, as I think Dell caught some
>flak over this when it was "exposed". But it was true during a certain
>period of time, so you just have to be careful!
>
>In my case, I "took out" a motherboard, after replacing the Dell power
>supply with a non-Dell brand which was supposed to be quieter.
>
>But I was lucky enough to still be able to find an identical motherboard on
>eBay, which I put back into the case. That computer was a Dell Dimension
>4100 desktop (with Win98) - which is going back a few years.
>
Thanks.

> @ Rich
>
> If the "vomit" inside the supply, looked like the orange deposits here,
> that is a "bad capacitor" problem. I have a low-service-hours Antec
> here (actually made by Channelwell CWT), and it looks like this.
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg
>
> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague )
>
> The first evidence of a problem, is when the computer crashed just
> after power up. Since the supply was no longer covered by warranty,
> I removed the four screws holding the lid, and had a look, and found
> signs of leakage. Antec supplies are made by a variety of manufacturers,
> and the contract manufacturing source can vary from year to year.
> HEC, CWT, Delta, Seasonic to name a few. There are other guys out
> there, who keep better track of this than I do.
>
> Paul

Oh yes, I know all about the capacitor plague. My wife's computer would not
display after booting up one morning. I tracked it down to the video card,
took a look & found three or four swollen &/or burst capacitors. It was an
ATI board only a couple of years old.
The Antec worked fine for over two years in a generic build. When I bought
my two kids new computers in December 2007, I patched together the best of
the Dell 1998, generic AMD K6 circa 1997 & Compaq from 2000. The Dell won
out because of its undocumented ability to accept 256mb RAM modules instead
of the 128mb specified on their site yielding an impressive 768mb of RAM (vs
512 total for the other two). Also the Dell's Slot 1 accepted the Powerleap
adapter which bumped the cpu from 400mhz Pentium II to an impressive 1.4 GHz
Tualatin Celeron (vs. 1.1Ghz Celeron in the Compaq & AMD K6+ 450Mhz in the
generic). So naturally, I took the the new 350W Antec & replaced the 200W
(?) proprietary Dell PSU & nothing spectacular happened....no lightning,
electrocution, fire, smoke, etc.....just no power. When I sniffed the Antec,
it had a slight burning smell but I could not be sure if that was normal.
Not being sure if it was damaged or just was incompatible I just shelved it
for the time being.
The capacitors did not just swell or leak, they kind of foamed & something
that looked like wrapped paper even leaked. No, it wasn't bad capacitors, I
definitely caused this.
BTW, I too have great photos of the failed Antec guts. If your interested I
could e-mail them to you or you could give me instructions on how to upload
to the site where you posted your photos. Just let me know.
Thanks for the help.
Rich

>
> There was an article on this somewhere talking about which Dell computers
> (which vintage) had this issue, and giving some postulates as to why it
> was done. One theory was that Dell wanted you to buy *their own* power
> supply.
>
> At any rate, I don't think it's the case now, as I think Dell caught some
> flak over this when it was "exposed". But it was true during a certain
> period of time, so you just have to be careful!
>
> In my case, I "took out" a motherboard, after replacing the Dell power
> supply with a non-Dell brand which was supposed to be quieter.
>
> But I was lucky enough to still be able to find an identical motherboard
> on eBay, which I put back into the case. That computer was a Dell
> Dimension 4100 desktop (with Win98) - which is going back a few years.
>

Yes, definitely, this is true. At some point Dell switched to standard
motherboard PSU sockets & front panel power connectors. Experts on this
group can tell you exactly or approximately when the proprietary era ended.
Ben Myers was a help to me on this (& other) issues.

Rich