I have recently decided to give Microsoft another try with Vista, as it was
preinstalled on my laptop. I am just too tired to try and collect a refund
for the monopolistic distribution practices. I have found a lot of problems
with Windows Mail. Even though I paid for it I don't see any way to get
support. Open-source tends to be the opposite, it is free and there is
plenty of support. With Mozilla Thunderbird I could submit a bug report
online to generate discussion of any bugs and possibly get them fixed. Is
there any such support for Windows Mail? Can I file a bug online and be
notified of updates as the fix progresses?

"Don Pellegrino" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:FBCC899D-C0B0-4F37-8291-(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have recently decided to give Microsoft another try with Vista, as it was
>preinstalled on my laptop. I am just too tired to try and collect a refund
>for the monopolistic distribution practices. I have found a lot of
>problems with Windows Mail. Even though I paid for it I don't see any way
>to get support. Open-source tends to be the opposite, it is free and there
>is plenty of support. With Mozilla Thunderbird I could submit a bug report
>online to generate discussion of any bugs and possibly get them fixed. Is
>there any such support for Windows Mail? Can I file a bug online and be
>notified of updates as the fix progresses?
Windows Mail is planned to be replaced by Windows Live Mail, so I
don't expect much work on fixes for Windows Mail.

If you don't want to tell us what problems you found in Windows
Mail, we can't read your mind to tell you of any known fixes.

If you want to try Windows Live Mail, look here:

http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Windows Mail is planned to be replaced by Windows Live Mail, so I
> don't expect much work on fixes for Windows Mail.

Amazing. Vista just came out so it makes sense that fundamental componets
would be obsolete by now.

> If you don't want to tell us what problems you found in Windows
> Mail, we can't read your mind to tell you of any known fixes.

I am glad to see you understand my question. So, to repeat myself, how do I
file bug reports? In computing "bug reports" refer to the reports of
problems found in computer software. See, by asking "how do I file bug
reports" I am actually asking how do I officially let Microsoft know of the
problems I find in Windows Mail?

> If you want to try Windows Live Mail, look here:
>
> http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview

I have no interest in adding more software to extend the bloat of Windows.
Microsoft should focus on getting the software they have already released
and distributed to work correctly.

Hi, Don.

If you just want to rant, go ahead. It's allowed. We all do it.

But if you want Microsoft to hear you, please complain directly to the
company, not to us. As you may have forgotten, this is a peer-to-peer
newsgroup. We are just users like you. We can commiserate - and sometimes
offer help - but we can't fix Microsoft for you. :>(

I have plenty of complaints about Windows Mail, too, so I've stopped using
it. When the Windows Live Mail beta became widely available about six
months ago, I tried it - and haven't used WM since, except to keep the
database up to date for when I'm ready to abandon it altogether - which is
Any Day Now. WLM went "gold" about 2 weeks ago, and it is a major
improvement over WM. Follow the link Robert gave you and see for yourself.

WLM is not perfect, of course, and we still have gripes, but it's better
than WM. If you'd like to see how WLM users feel about it, check out this
newsgroup: (Ignore the word "desktop" in the NG name; that part of the
program name was abandoned back in May.)
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...e.mail.desktop

Or, just keep ranting. The choice is yours.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(E-Mail Removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP
(Running Windows Live Mail 2008 in Vista Ultimate x64)

"Don Pellegrino" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:030012AB-ED4F-4DC2-A1C3-(E-Mail Removed)...
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> Windows Mail is planned to be replaced by Windows Live Mail, so I
>> don't expect much work on fixes for Windows Mail.
>
> Amazing. Vista just came out so it makes sense that fundamental componets
> would be obsolete by now.
>
>> If you don't want to tell us what problems you found in Windows
>> Mail, we can't read your mind to tell you of any known fixes.
>
> I am glad to see you understand my question. So, to repeat myself, how do
> I file bug reports? In computing "bug reports" refer to the reports of
> problems found in computer software. See, by asking "how do I file bug
> reports" I am actually asking how do I officially let Microsoft know of
> the problems I find in Windows Mail?
>
>> If you want to try Windows Live Mail, look here:
>>
>> http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview
>
> I have no interest in adding more software to extend the bloat of Windows.
> Microsoft should focus on getting the software they have already released
> and distributed to work correctly.

There is a feedback site for Vista...
https://feedback.windowsvista.micros...p_vista_master

There are MET folks that monitor the Live Mail newsgroup, and will listen to
bug reports re that product.

--
http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview

"Don Pellegrino" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:FBCC899D-C0B0-4F37-8291-(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have recently decided to give Microsoft another try with Vista, as it
> was preinstalled on my laptop. I am just too tired to try and collect a
> refund for the monopolistic distribution practices. I have found a lot of
> problems with Windows Mail. Even though I paid for it I don't see any way
> to get support. Open-source tends to be the opposite, it is free and
> there is plenty of support. With Mozilla Thunderbird I could submit a bug
> report online to generate discussion of any bugs and possibly get them
> fixed. Is there any such support for Windows Mail? Can I file a bug
> online and be notified of updates as the fix progresses?

> But if you want Microsoft to hear you, please complain directly to the
> company, not to us. As you may have forgotten, this is a peer-to-peer
> newsgroup. We are just users like you. We can commiserate - and
> sometimes offer help - but we can't fix Microsoft for you. :>(

Yes indeed. It is really not my intent to simply complain to the newgroup,
although it is certainly a quick way to vent the frustration; it truely is
an honest question. I really don't know how to "go to the company." I
can't find any way to send a bug report to Microsoft. Sadly it seems it has
gotten to the point where asking "how do I report a bug?" is considered
offensive to some. How dare I question Microsoft?

My expectation would be for a Windows Mail support site with an official
database of bugs and an official way to submit a bug report to the vendor
for resolution. Like I said, I haven't really seriously tried Microsoft's
products since the mid-nineties. I was hoping they evolved a little since
then. Every open-source project I have ever used had a bug database and a
way to submit bug reports. I figured I was simply missing something.

> I have plenty of complaints about Windows Mail, too, so I've stopped using
> it. When the Windows Live Mail beta became widely available about six

Thanks for highlighting Windows Live Mail. My experiment here is to give
Vista a chance though. Is Microsoft going to update Vista with WLM as a
replacement for Windows Mail or is the product plan to distribute Vista and
then expect users to replace Windows Mail with WLM manually?

> There is a feedback site for Vista...
> https://feedback.windowsvista.micros...p_vista_master

Thanks for the link, I visited it and found: "Unfortunately, we cannot
provide a personal response to your comments." While I don't need personal
feedback from the developers I am unwilling to dump comments into a online
system that lacks any feedback mechanism at all. Based on the responses so
far it seems I should conclude that Microsoft does not provide the bug
report system I expected. I followed the support links and it seems I have
two official alternatives:

1. Dump my comments into an online form. I won't get a response and no-one
else will see my report or get any benefit from it. My detailed problem
description will be purely for the benefit of Microsoft and no one else.

2. I could pay $59.00 per incident if I had a contract or subscription
agreement in place with Microsoft. I may or may not have my problem sovled
personally. Here too my trouble for documenting the issue would be hidden
from the community and no one else would get any benefit.

> There are MET folks that monitor the Live Mail newsgroup, and will listen
> to bug reports re that product.

So basically this newsgroup is for the benefit of Microsoft folks, who can
use it to get free ideas for new products and support which they can then
charge us for later. They may choose to contribute periodically. How nice
of them.

I really would like to contribute to the user community by describing the
details of the program's behavior and documenting bugs so that other users
can learn from my experiences. I could do that here in the newsgroup but
there is no official way to do it and it is likely that my effort will be
wasted. Am I wrong?