I'm about to build two computers using a budget that's a hair under
$2000; one of them is going to be a single-core gaming machine
(probably 939 Venice w/ x1900xt gpu), the other will be a respectable
budged dual-core system ("budget dual-core", to hear such words, aren't
these wonderful times to be alive?).

So, I am stuck between these choices:

E6300 @ $184 + Abit IL9 Pro @ $84
3800+X2 @ $139 + Abit NF-M2 nView @ $89

The Abit IL9 Pro has the advantage of TWO PCI-E x16 slots (although one
is only electrically capable of PCI-E x4 operation), and disadvantage
of absolutely no overclocking potential. I will probably not be
upgrading the CPU on this board.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127015

The Abit NF-M2 nView has the disadvantage of a dearth of expansion
slots (only 1x PCI-E and 16x PCI-E, so I'm hamstrung on future physics
cards), but the advantage of uber-overclockability (to 400 and beyond).
In the future I may upgrade to quad-core K8L on this board.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103733
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127013

For RAM, I will use 2 Gb of the most cost-effective G.Skill (or
comparable) DDR2 533 (for the Intel) or DDR2 800 (for the AMD -- if I
splurge). Cost approximate = $209.

My question is, six months from now, which cpu+mobo will I be more
happy with?

> My question is, six months from now, which cpu+mobo will I be more
> happy with?
>

3800+ X2

by far, it isn't even close

Dave said the following on 12/30/2006 12:13 PM:
>> My question is, six months from now, which cpu+mobo will I be more
>> happy with?
>>
>
> 3800+ X2
>
> by far, it isn't even close

Why is that? I am just beginning to think about a new system.

Thaks
Ken

"Ken" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:5IGdnU2E-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Dave said the following on 12/30/2006 12:13 PM:
>>> My question is, six months from now, which cpu+mobo will I be more
>>> happy with?
>>>
>>
>> 3800+ X2
>>
>> by far, it isn't even close
>
> Why is that? I am just beginning to think about a new system.
>
> Thaks
> Ken

Performance. The other processor is a low-end budget processor, even by
today's standards. But the X2 is still pretty powerful, even by today's
standards. -Dave

What are you basing this (better performance) on? The reading I've done
suggests the E6300 will outperform the 3800+, both at stock speeds. As
examples:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=2802
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html

Clint

"Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4596e657$0$97259$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Ken" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:5IGdnU2E-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Dave said the following on 12/30/2006 12:13 PM:
>>>> My question is, six months from now, which cpu+mobo will I be more
>>>> happy with?
>>>>
>>>
>>> 3800+ X2
>>>
>>> by far, it isn't even close
>>
>> Why is that? I am just beginning to think about a new system.
>>
>> Thaks
>> Ken
>
> Performance. The other processor is a low-end budget processor, even by
> today's standards. But the X2 is still pretty powerful, even by today's
> standards. -Dave
>

Single core or dual core doesn't matter, it is the software you are
running that counts, if your software is not optimize for dual core,
single core with higher speed will win.
Please also take note of heating problem, I have friend using a 256MB
high end graphic card but his 3D game very laggy until he opened the
side cover & added two more fans blowing at the graphic card, then
thing works better now.

sam_pcdoctor#529190
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Can you explain your point more clearly? Both processors that he was
comparing are dual core. And your friend's over-heating graphics card seems
fairly irrelevant as well.

Clint

"sam_pcdoctor" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Single core or dual core doesn't matter, it is the software you are
> running that counts, if your software is not optimize for dual core,
> single core with higher speed will win.
> Please also take note of heating problem, I have friend using a 256MB
> high end graphic card but his 3D game very laggy until he opened the
> side cover & added two more fans blowing at the graphic card, then
> thing works better now.
>
> sam_pcdoctor#529190
> Life is short, play hard.
> http://www.gamestotal.com/>Multiplayer Online Games
> http://www.gamestotal.com/>Strategy Games
> http://uc.gamestotal.com/>Unification Wars
> http://uc.gamestotal.com/>Massive Multiplayer Online Games
> http://gc.gamestotal.com/>Galactic Conques
> http://gc.gamestotal.com/>Strategy Games
> http://www.stephenyong.com/runescape.htm>Runescape
> http://www.stephenyong.com/kingsofchaos.htm>Kings of chaos
> sign up-> http://uc.gamestotal.com/?tft=g4p6
>

> Performance. The other processor is a low-end budget processor, even by
> today's standards. But the X2 is still pretty powerful, even by today's
> standards. -Dave

.....I am shocked to hear the E6300 called a "low-end budget processor."
Yes, it is Intel's lowest-end offering of the Core 2 Duo family, but
I've been lead to believe that clock for clock it spanks K8 and
overclocks further. Or were you referring to the X2 3800+ as "budget"
(which it is)?....

Okay, so the question is, by spending an extra hundred dollars, what
kind of performance gain will I really see/feel going from a highly
overclocked X2 3800+ to a lightly overclocked E6300? Is the extra
performance really worth $100, or am I just going to be shaving seconds
off my video editing and adding a couple frames per second to my
gaming?

Also, is it sensible to build an AM2 platform in the hopes of upgrading
to a fast AMD quad-core K8L star-series processor? Will Clovertown and
Yorktown go to town on the benches and be way better than AMD's quad
core, or will AMD's superior connectivity and higher memory bandwidth
allow it to shine against Intel's "chokier" bandwidth-limited design?

I mean, how much better is HyperTransport than Front Side Bus?

(E-Mail Removed) schrieb:
....
> ....I am shocked to hear the E6300 called a "low-end budget processor."
> Yes, it is Intel's lowest-end offering of the Core 2 Duo family, but
> I've been lead to believe that clock for clock it spanks K8 and
> overclocks further. Or were you referring to the X2 3800+ as "budget"
> (which it is)?....

The C2D is definitely superior, see e. g.
<http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=471&model2=433&chart=174>

If an E6300 is too expensive for you, you might take into
consideration the forthcoming C2D E4300 (FSB 800 instead of 1066), see
e. g. <http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5414>


Roy

> The C2D is definitely superior, see e. g.
> <http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=471&model2=433&chart=174>
>
> Roy

Ah, but will Intel's quad-core solution be superior to AMD's? That is
the thousand dollar question. I know next year I'll be able to plug a
quad-core Barcelona K8L into the NF-M2, and the optimizations on the
evolving K8L architecture will at least close the gap between it and
Core 2.

The nVidia AM2 solution is alot more solid than anything I'm seeing on
socket 775 -- the GeForce 6150+430 reportedly overclocks *stably* to
333x3 and 400x2, while few P965 and 680i can even barely reach 250x4 or
300x3, and I doubt either chipset will really be able to let a
Cloverton or Yorktown reach its potential against K8L/Barcelona. What
does everyone else think?

I'll be building this machine as a poor-man's
video-editor/PVR/gaming/folding-rig, to be upgraded to a good quad-core
with 4-8 gigs of RAM when DDR2 and Barcelona or Clovertown prices come
down. Video card will be a super-cheap X1900 that will fold while the
integrated video chipset plays movies to my 22" screen, giving me
plenty of DirectX 9 performance out of every game for the next 2-3
years.

Final budget for the entire build must be less than $1100. Remember
that $133 Athlon + $89 motherboard = $222, while $194 Core 2 Duo + $120
motherboard = $312, which is a difference of $90 -- is the little bit
extra performance now worth a hundred dollars, or is it better to go a
little bit cheaper now to have a better platform to take advantage of
Barcelona K8L later?