WinXP Pro SP3
Western Digital 160GB laptop drive
Dell D600
McAfee AV - active and up-to-date

It seems that my boot sector on my 160GB HDs keep getting 'hosed'. Not too
sure why but I make backups of the active internal HD and then about 2 weeks
later the HD's boot sector gets hosed and I can't boot (time interval isn't
consistent). Only way around is to replace the non-bootable HD with the
2-week old bootable backup HD and copy the appropriate files onto the 2-week
old HD. Then make a backup of the current active over the hosed HD drive.
I wear an anti-static wrist band; I also remove any potential static before
I touch the laptop, just in case; I don't get static when I'm at the laptop
(unless it's from my wife! ;-) ). What happens is when I reboot (cold or
warm) the Dell splash screen appears and then I get the cursor in the upper
left corner of the screen. Once I see the Windows splash screen, I'm ok but
if I only see the flashing cursor at the top left of the screen, then I'm
hosed! ;-(
1) Any reason for this to happen? FWIW, I started with an 80GB internal
drive and replaced it with the 160GBs about a year+ ago. It seems that since
then I've had the issue with the boot sector. 80GB HD is not a Western
Digital - Hitachi and it was the original 80GB HD. It still works fine. My
current configuration is an internal 160GB HD and an external 160HB via one
of the USB2 ports. Both are Western Digitals and IDE drive (not laptop
SATAs).
2) Is there an easy 'fix my boot sector utility' available that I can use so
I don't have to spend about 2+ hours each time my boot sector crashes?
3) Is there a Windows backup process to cover this or something that someone
might suggest I do to quicken then crash-n-go process?
4) Any ideas to eliminate the issue at all?
5) Laptop functions totally fine with no known issues otherwise.
TIA

Tom wrote:

> It seems that my boot sector on my 160GB HDs keep getting 'hosed'. Not too
> sure why but I make backups of the active internal HD and then about 2 weeks
> later the HD's boot sector gets hosed and I can't boot (time interval isn't
> consistent). Only way around is to replace the non-bootable HD with the
> 2-week old bootable backup HD and copy the appropriate files onto the 2-week
> old HD. Then make a backup of the current active over the hosed HD drive.
> I wear an anti-static wrist band; I also remove any potential static before
> I touch the laptop, just in case; I don't get static when I'm at the laptop
> (unless it's from my wife! ;-) ). What happens is when I reboot (cold or
> warm) the Dell splash screen appears and then I get the cursor in the upper
> left corner of the screen. Once I see the Windows splash screen, I'm ok but
> if I only see the flashing cursor at the top left of the screen, then I'm
> hosed!

This blinking cursor on black screen is usually a sign that there are no
active partitions on the drive, the active partition flag was removed,
or you are trying to boot to a different drive, like a flash drive. You
can verify the status of the active partition in the Disk Management
tool, the Active partition will be identified as the System partition.
You can also use a Windows 98 startup diskette and Fdisk to verify the
active status of the partition.

If you have a floppy drive you should make yourself an NT floppy boot
diskette and keep it nearby, the nest time you get this problem see if
you can boot your Windows installation with this diskette.

To create the diskette:

1- The diskette must contain an NT boot sector. Format the floppy
diskette with a Windows NT/2000/XP operating system. Do not use a
diskette formatted with a Windows 9x operating system, it will not
contain the NT boot sector and it will fail to boot your Windows XP
installation.

2- Copy the files ntldr, NTDETECT.COM and boot.ini to the diskette.

Now test the diskette to make sure that it works, go in the BIOS and
verify the Boot Order so that the computer is set to boot to the
diskette drive first then try to boot the computer with the diskette.
The next time this problem comes up see if the diskette can boot
Windows, if it can then look at the Active status of the partition.

If you are certain that there are no software/malware issues at cause
and if you are sure that your cables are not defective and properly
seated then maybe the drive is defective, get a utility from the drive
manufacturer and test the drive. Also note that this issue is also
often reported to happen when external USB drives or flash drives are
plugged into the computer when it is booted, make sure that none of
these devices are present when you boot the computer.

John

John,
I don't have a floppy disk.. just the CD/DVD burner. Is there a way to do
the boot process without the floppy drive? I'm driving to be floppy-less!
Relative to the external USB drives are you saying I should wait until I see
the Windows logo screen before re-inserting the external USB drives? OR, are
you saying the IF I get the issue next time that I remove the external drives
and reboot?
On the HD issue, about 4+ months ago I ran a test on the drive that wouldn't
boot and it was ok. On the partition idea, I do have valid active partitions
- the system partition plus the active user partition (148GB or so).
Other ideas???

"John John (MVP)" wrote:

> Tom wrote:
>
> > It seems that my boot sector on my 160GB HDs keep getting 'hosed'. Not too
> > sure why but I make backups of the active internal HD and then about 2 weeks
> > later the HD's boot sector gets hosed and I can't boot (time interval isn't
> > consistent). Only way around is to replace the non-bootable HD with the
> > 2-week old bootable backup HD and copy the appropriate files onto the 2-week
> > old HD. Then make a backup of the current active over the hosed HD drive.
> > I wear an anti-static wrist band; I also remove any potential static before
> > I touch the laptop, just in case; I don't get static when I'm at the laptop
> > (unless it's from my wife! ;-) ). What happens is when I reboot (cold or
> > warm) the Dell splash screen appears and then I get the cursor in the upper
> > left corner of the screen. Once I see the Windows splash screen, I'm ok but
> > if I only see the flashing cursor at the top left of the screen, then I'm
> > hosed!
>
> This blinking cursor on black screen is usually a sign that there are no
> active partitions on the drive, the active partition flag was removed,
> or you are trying to boot to a different drive, like a flash drive. You
> can verify the status of the active partition in the Disk Management
> tool, the Active partition will be identified as the System partition.
> You can also use a Windows 98 startup diskette and Fdisk to verify the
> active status of the partition.
>
> If you have a floppy drive you should make yourself an NT floppy boot
> diskette and keep it nearby, the nest time you get this problem see if
> you can boot your Windows installation with this diskette.
>
> To create the diskette:
>
> 1- The diskette must contain an NT boot sector. Format the floppy
> diskette with a Windows NT/2000/XP operating system. Do not use a
> diskette formatted with a Windows 9x operating system, it will not
> contain the NT boot sector and it will fail to boot your Windows XP
> installation.
>
> 2- Copy the files ntldr, NTDETECT.COM and boot.ini to the diskette.
>
> Now test the diskette to make sure that it works, go in the BIOS and
> verify the Boot Order so that the computer is set to boot to the
> diskette drive first then try to boot the computer with the diskette.
> The next time this problem comes up see if the diskette can boot
> Windows, if it can then look at the Active status of the partition.
>
> If you are certain that there are no software/malware issues at cause
> and if you are sure that your cables are not defective and properly
> seated then maybe the drive is defective, get a utility from the drive
> manufacturer and test the drive. Also note that this issue is also
> often reported to happen when external USB drives or flash drives are
> plugged into the computer when it is booted, make sure that none of
> these devices are present when you boot the computer.
>
> John
>
>

Tom wrote:

> John,
> I don't have a floppy disk.. just the CD/DVD burner. Is there a way to do
> the boot process without the floppy drive? I'm driving to be floppy-less!

I understand your wanting to be floppy-less but as far as I am concerned
Windows XP installations are at times much easier to maintain when a
floppy drive is present. You can salvage a floppy drive from a retired
PC or buy a new one for about $10. If your computer can boot USB
devices you can try to create a floppy boot image for USB stick, doing a
search for "Boot usb stick floppy image" will return information like
this: http://www.bootdisk.com/pendrive.htm


> Relative to the external USB drives are you saying I should wait until I see
> the Windows logo screen before re-inserting the external USB drives? OR, are
> you saying the IF I get the issue next time that I remove the external drives
> and reboot?

If you get the problem unplug the USB drives and try re-booting the
computer. I have certain machines here that give the very same symptoms
as yours, if I leave a flash drive plugged in the computer just boots to
a blinking cursor, pull the stick and the machine boots without
problems. This happens even when the hard disk is set to be the first
boot device in the BIOS, but this isn't an occasional thing, it is
consistent and the machine will not boot if a USB stick is plugged in,
other users and posters to these groups have also often reported this
kind of problem when USB hard drives are plugged in.


> On the HD issue, about 4+ months ago I ran a test on the drive that wouldn't
> boot and it was ok. On the partition idea, I do have valid active partitions
> - the system partition plus the active user partition (148GB or so).

The only way to absolutely rule out the removal of the active flag would
be to examine the disk when the problem occurs and verify the active
status of the partitions.


> Other ideas???

No, maybe someone else has other advice to offer.

John



> "John John (MVP)" wrote:
>
>
>>Tom wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It seems that my boot sector on my 160GB HDs keep getting 'hosed'. Not too
>>>sure why but I make backups of the active internal HD and then about 2 weeks
>>>later the HD's boot sector gets hosed and I can't boot (time interval isn't
>>>consistent). Only way around is to replace the non-bootable HD with the
>>>2-week old bootable backup HD and copy the appropriate files onto the 2-week
>>>old HD. Then make a backup of the current active over the hosed HD drive.
>>>I wear an anti-static wrist band; I also remove any potential static before
>>>I touch the laptop, just in case; I don't get static when I'm at the laptop
>>>(unless it's from my wife! ;-) ). What happens is when I reboot (cold or
>>>warm) the Dell splash screen appears and then I get the cursor in the upper
>>>left corner of the screen. Once I see the Windows splash screen, I'm ok but
>>>if I only see the flashing cursor at the top left of the screen, then I'm
>>>hosed!
>>
>>This blinking cursor on black screen is usually a sign that there are no
>>active partitions on the drive, the active partition flag was removed,
>>or you are trying to boot to a different drive, like a flash drive. You
>>can verify the status of the active partition in the Disk Management
>>tool, the Active partition will be identified as the System partition.
>>You can also use a Windows 98 startup diskette and Fdisk to verify the
>>active status of the partition.
>>
>>If you have a floppy drive you should make yourself an NT floppy boot
>>diskette and keep it nearby, the nest time you get this problem see if
>>you can boot your Windows installation with this diskette.
>>
>>To create the diskette:
>>
>>1- The diskette must contain an NT boot sector. Format the floppy
>>diskette with a Windows NT/2000/XP operating system. Do not use a
>>diskette formatted with a Windows 9x operating system, it will not
>>contain the NT boot sector and it will fail to boot your Windows XP
>>installation.
>>
>>2- Copy the files ntldr, NTDETECT.COM and boot.ini to the diskette.
>>
>>Now test the diskette to make sure that it works, go in the BIOS and
>>verify the Boot Order so that the computer is set to boot to the
>>diskette drive first then try to boot the computer with the diskette.
>>The next time this problem comes up see if the diskette can boot
>>Windows, if it can then look at the Active status of the partition.
>>
>>If you are certain that there are no software/malware issues at cause
>>and if you are sure that your cables are not defective and properly
>>seated then maybe the drive is defective, get a utility from the drive
>>manufacturer and test the drive. Also note that this issue is also
>>often reported to happen when external USB drives or flash drives are
>>plugged into the computer when it is booted, make sure that none of
>>these devices are present when you boot the computer.
>>
>>John
>>
>>

So, John, it sounds like I've been spending too much time recreating my HD
status..
Let me reaffirm/reflect what I think you're saying:
1) If I get the non-boot HD situation again, unplug any and all USB devices
(floppies, HDs, printers, whatever) and reboot. The non-boot HD situation
should clear itself once I completely power off, wait 10 seconds or so and
then reboot. Once I see the Windows splash screen, insert the external
devices.
2) Should I, as a matter of procedure, remove all USB device after power off
and before reboot? Including a restart-such as a Windows Update? The
problem has never occurred right after a Windows Update to my knowledge.
It appears from your experiences that the non-boot issue is a phantom issue
that really doesn't exist but only manifests itself as an issue IF an
external USB HD exists.
TIA!


"John John (MVP)" wrote:

> Tom wrote:
>
> > John,
> > I don't have a floppy disk.. just the CD/DVD burner. Is there a way to do
> > the boot process without the floppy drive? I'm driving to be floppy-less!
>
> I understand your wanting to be floppy-less but as far as I am concerned
> Windows XP installations are at times much easier to maintain when a
> floppy drive is present. You can salvage a floppy drive from a retired
> PC or buy a new one for about $10. If your computer can boot USB
> devices you can try to create a floppy boot image for USB stick, doing a
> search for "Boot usb stick floppy image" will return information like
> this: http://www.bootdisk.com/pendrive.htm
>
>
> > Relative to the external USB drives are you saying I should wait until I see
> > the Windows logo screen before re-inserting the external USB drives? OR, are
> > you saying the IF I get the issue next time that I remove the external drives
> > and reboot?
>
> If you get the problem unplug the USB drives and try re-booting the
> computer. I have certain machines here that give the very same symptoms
> as yours, if I leave a flash drive plugged in the computer just boots to
> a blinking cursor, pull the stick and the machine boots without
> problems. This happens even when the hard disk is set to be the first
> boot device in the BIOS, but this isn't an occasional thing, it is
> consistent and the machine will not boot if a USB stick is plugged in,
> other users and posters to these groups have also often reported this
> kind of problem when USB hard drives are plugged in.
>
>
> > On the HD issue, about 4+ months ago I ran a test on the drive that wouldn't
> > boot and it was ok. On the partition idea, I do have valid active partitions
> > - the system partition plus the active user partition (148GB or so).
>
> The only way to absolutely rule out the removal of the active flag would
> be to examine the disk when the problem occurs and verify the active
> status of the partitions.
>
>
> > Other ideas???
>
> No, maybe someone else has other advice to offer.
>
> John
>
>
>
> > "John John (MVP)" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Tom wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>It seems that my boot sector on my 160GB HDs keep getting 'hosed'. Not too
> >>>sure why but I make backups of the active internal HD and then about 2 weeks
> >>>later the HD's boot sector gets hosed and I can't boot (time interval isn't
> >>>consistent). Only way around is to replace the non-bootable HD with the
> >>>2-week old bootable backup HD and copy the appropriate files onto the 2-week
> >>>old HD. Then make a backup of the current active over the hosed HD drive.
> >>>I wear an anti-static wrist band; I also remove any potential static before
> >>>I touch the laptop, just in case; I don't get static when I'm at the laptop
> >>>(unless it's from my wife! ;-) ). What happens is when I reboot (cold or
> >>>warm) the Dell splash screen appears and then I get the cursor in the upper
> >>>left corner of the screen. Once I see the Windows splash screen, I'm ok but
> >>>if I only see the flashing cursor at the top left of the screen, then I'm
> >>>hosed!
> >>
> >>This blinking cursor on black screen is usually a sign that there are no
> >>active partitions on the drive, the active partition flag was removed,
> >>or you are trying to boot to a different drive, like a flash drive. You
> >>can verify the status of the active partition in the Disk Management
> >>tool, the Active partition will be identified as the System partition.
> >>You can also use a Windows 98 startup diskette and Fdisk to verify the
> >>active status of the partition.
> >>
> >>If you have a floppy drive you should make yourself an NT floppy boot
> >>diskette and keep it nearby, the nest time you get this problem see if
> >>you can boot your Windows installation with this diskette.
> >>
> >>To create the diskette:
> >>
> >>1- The diskette must contain an NT boot sector. Format the floppy
> >>diskette with a Windows NT/2000/XP operating system. Do not use a
> >>diskette formatted with a Windows 9x operating system, it will not
> >>contain the NT boot sector and it will fail to boot your Windows XP
> >>installation.
> >>
> >>2- Copy the files ntldr, NTDETECT.COM and boot.ini to the diskette.
> >>
> >>Now test the diskette to make sure that it works, go in the BIOS and
> >>verify the Boot Order so that the computer is set to boot to the
> >>diskette drive first then try to boot the computer with the diskette.
> >>The next time this problem comes up see if the diskette can boot
> >>Windows, if it can then look at the Active status of the partition.
> >>
> >>If you are certain that there are no software/malware issues at cause
> >>and if you are sure that your cables are not defective and properly
> >>seated then maybe the drive is defective, get a utility from the drive
> >>manufacturer and test the drive. Also note that this issue is also
> >>often reported to happen when external USB drives or flash drives are
> >>plugged into the computer when it is booted, make sure that none of
> >>these devices are present when you boot the computer.
> >>
> >>John
> >>
> >>
>
>

Tom wrote:
> So, John, it sounds like I've been spending too much time recreating my HD
> status..

Maybe... maybe not. We don't know for absolute certainty why it is that
your hard drive fails to boot. I am only giving you possibilities and
the steps that I would take to try to get to the bottom of things and
resolve the problem.


> Let me reaffirm/reflect what I think you're saying:
> 1) If I get the non-boot HD situation again, unplug any and all USB devices
> (floppies, HDs, printers, whatever) and reboot. The non-boot HD situation
> should clear itself once I completely power off, wait 10 seconds or so and
> then reboot.

You said earlier that you had no floppy drive? What I am saying that
this issue is known to sometime occur if USB drives or USB sticks are
plugged in the machine, unless your printer has card readers I wouldn't
expect it or other non-bootable USB devices to cause this kind of
problem, there is no need to disconnect these devices.


Once I see the Windows splash screen, insert the external
> devices.
> 2) Should I, as a matter of procedure, remove all USB device after power off
> and before reboot? Including a restart-such as a Windows Update? The
> problem has never occurred right after a Windows Update to my knowledge.
> It appears from your experiences that the non-boot issue is a phantom issue
> that really doesn't exist but only manifests itself as an issue IF an
> external USB HD exists.

On some computers that are capable of booting to USB devices this
sometimes causes problems but if your computer usually boots without
problems when these USB devices are normally plugged in then the devices
themselves are probably not the cause of the problem. In that case I
would check to make sure that the boot order in the BIOS hasn't been
changed to boot to USB before the hard drive. What I am saying is that
you should make sure and eliminate these as a possible cause, when the
problem occurs do the following:

- Verify in the BIOS to make sure that the Windows hard drive is the
first boot device in the Boot Sequence or Boot Order, make sure that USB
devices aren't set to boot before the hard drive.

- Unplug your USB external hard drive and make sure that there are no
USB sticks in the machine and try to boot again.

- If the machine still cannot boot try the boot floppy, if you don't
have a floppy drive (as you stated in your other post) you will have to
use another method to examine the drive and verify the active status of
the partitions, when there are no active partitions on the drive the
computer usually halts at a black screen with a blinking cursor at the
upper left of the screen, a classic symptom of a disk without an active
partition so that is one of the first things that I would look at. Why
would a previously present active flag be suddenly missing? I'm not
sure, maybe a flaky drive or maybe the active flag is removed by some
rogue software of malware. Or maybe this is caused by a weak CMOS
battery that causes the BIOS to lose its settings and revert to its
default values which could change the boot order and place USB devices
ahead of the hard drive.

John


> TIA!
>
>
> "John John (MVP)" wrote:
>
>
>>Tom wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John,
>>>I don't have a floppy disk.. just the CD/DVD burner. Is there a way to do
>>>the boot process without the floppy drive? I'm driving to be floppy-less!
>>
>>I understand your wanting to be floppy-less but as far as I am concerned
>>Windows XP installations are at times much easier to maintain when a
>>floppy drive is present. You can salvage a floppy drive from a retired
>>PC or buy a new one for about $10. If your computer can boot USB
>>devices you can try to create a floppy boot image for USB stick, doing a
>>search for "Boot usb stick floppy image" will return information like
>>this: http://www.bootdisk.com/pendrive.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>>Relative to the external USB drives are you saying I should wait until I see
>>>the Windows logo screen before re-inserting the external USB drives? OR, are
>>>you saying the IF I get the issue next time that I remove the external drives
>>>and reboot?
>>
>>If you get the problem unplug the USB drives and try re-booting the
>>computer. I have certain machines here that give the very same symptoms
>>as yours, if I leave a flash drive plugged in the computer just boots to
>>a blinking cursor, pull the stick and the machine boots without
>>problems. This happens even when the hard disk is set to be the first
>>boot device in the BIOS, but this isn't an occasional thing, it is
>>consistent and the machine will not boot if a USB stick is plugged in,
>>other users and posters to these groups have also often reported this
>>kind of problem when USB hard drives are plugged in.
>>
>>
>>
>>>On the HD issue, about 4+ months ago I ran a test on the drive that wouldn't
>>>boot and it was ok. On the partition idea, I do have valid active partitions
>>>- the system partition plus the active user partition (148GB or so).
>>
>>The only way to absolutely rule out the removal of the active flag would
>>be to examine the disk when the problem occurs and verify the active
>>status of the partitions.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Other ideas???
>>
>>No, maybe someone else has other advice to offer.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>"John John (MVP)" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>It seems that my boot sector on my 160GB HDs keep getting 'hosed'. Not too
>>>>>sure why but I make backups of the active internal HD and then about 2 weeks
>>>>>later the HD's boot sector gets hosed and I can't boot (time interval isn't
>>>>>consistent). Only way around is to replace the non-bootable HD with the
>>>>>2-week old bootable backup HD and copy the appropriate files onto the 2-week
>>>>>old HD. Then make a backup of the current active over the hosed HD drive.
>>>>>I wear an anti-static wrist band; I also remove any potential static before
>>>>>I touch the laptop, just in case; I don't get static when I'm at the laptop
>>>>>(unless it's from my wife! ;-) ). What happens is when I reboot (cold or
>>>>>warm) the Dell splash screen appears and then I get the cursor in the upper
>>>>>left corner of the screen. Once I see the Windows splash screen, I'm ok but
>>>>>if I only see the flashing cursor at the top left of the screen, then I'm
>>>>>hosed!
>>>>
>>>>This blinking cursor on black screen is usually a sign that there are no
>>>>active partitions on the drive, the active partition flag was removed,
>>>>or you are trying to boot to a different drive, like a flash drive. You
>>>>can verify the status of the active partition in the Disk Management
>>>>tool, the Active partition will be identified as the System partition.
>>>>You can also use a Windows 98 startup diskette and Fdisk to verify the
>>>>active status of the partition.
>>>>
>>>>If you have a floppy drive you should make yourself an NT floppy boot
>>>>diskette and keep it nearby, the nest time you get this problem see if
>>>>you can boot your Windows installation with this diskette.
>>>>
>>>>To create the diskette:
>>>>
>>>>1- The diskette must contain an NT boot sector. Format the floppy
>>>>diskette with a Windows NT/2000/XP operating system. Do not use a
>>>>diskette formatted with a Windows 9x operating system, it will not
>>>>contain the NT boot sector and it will fail to boot your Windows XP
>>>>installation.
>>>>
>>>>2- Copy the files ntldr, NTDETECT.COM and boot.ini to the diskette.
>>>>
>>>>Now test the diskette to make sure that it works, go in the BIOS and
>>>>verify the Boot Order so that the computer is set to boot to the
>>>>diskette drive first then try to boot the computer with the diskette.
>>>>The next time this problem comes up see if the diskette can boot
>>>>Windows, if it can then look at the Active status of the partition.
>>>>
>>>>If you are certain that there are no software/malware issues at cause
>>>>and if you are sure that your cables are not defective and properly
>>>>seated then maybe the drive is defective, get a utility from the drive
>>>>manufacturer and test the drive. Also note that this issue is also
>>>>often reported to happen when external USB drives or flash drives are
>>>>plugged into the computer when it is booted, make sure that none of
>>>>these devices are present when you boot the computer.
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>