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Blind Copy Anomaly

 
 
=?Utf-8?B?Z2Vla3NlZWtlcg==?=
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      21st Jul 2005
A recent MS Inside Office newsletter features an article on how to send a
message to many without any knowing that others have receive the message. I
attemped to try this using the three account names that I have with my ISP,
and got a surprising result.

Configuration: Outlook 2003 with three accounts (all member of the same ISP
account). Call the account names A, B and C, i.e. (E-Mail Removed), (E-Mail Removed) and
(E-Mail Removed).

Anomaly. A sends email TO: A with BCC: B & C. What should happen is that B
and C receive email without knowing the other also received it. What
actually happens is that as the message is sent, B and C addresses are
replaced by A's address and A receives three copies, B and C receive none.
Variant 2: B or C sends message to themselves with BCC to A and the other.
Regardless of who sends the message, the sender is replaced by A as well as
BCC addresses are replaced by A and A receives 3 copies. SURPRISE!!!

This may be unique to using addresses all within the same ISP account and
therefore inconsequential?
 
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=?Utf-8?B?Sm9jZWx5biBGaW9yZWxsbyBbTVZQIC0gT3V0bG9v
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      22nd Jul 2005
Sounds to me like you need to talk to your ISP and find out why their server
is messing up the BCCs...

--
Jocelyn Fiorello
MVP - Outlook

*** Messages sent to my e-mail address will NOT be answered -- please reply
only to the newsgroup to preserve the message thread. ***


"geekseeker" wrote:

> A recent MS Inside Office newsletter features an article on how to send a
> message to many without any knowing that others have receive the message. I
> attemped to try this using the three account names that I have with my ISP,
> and got a surprising result.
>
> Configuration: Outlook 2003 with three accounts (all member of the same ISP
> account). Call the account names A, B and C, i.e. (E-Mail Removed), (E-Mail Removed) and
> (E-Mail Removed).
>
> Anomaly. A sends email TO: A with BCC: B & C. What should happen is that B
> and C receive email without knowing the other also received it. What
> actually happens is that as the message is sent, B and C addresses are
> replaced by A's address and A receives three copies, B and C receive none.
> Variant 2: B or C sends message to themselves with BCC to A and the other.
> Regardless of who sends the message, the sender is replaced by A as well as
> BCC addresses are replaced by A and A receives 3 copies. SURPRISE!!!
>
> This may be unique to using addresses all within the same ISP account and
> therefore inconsequential?

 
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=?Utf-8?B?Z2Vla3NlZWtlcg==?=
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Posts: n/a
 
      22nd Jul 2005
Thanks Jocelyn ... I'll give it a try with the ISP, but I am not entirely
sure the problem is there. May you can help confirm this by looking over the
following:

After receiving your reply I did run another test then went to the ISP web
mail site and looked in each of the three mailboxes and found an appropriate
copy in each. Of interest is that the message in each is addressed only to
the sender, i.e., "A." While the web mail mailboxes for "B" and "C" contain
a copy of the message their names do not show up as addressees! SOoooo when
my Outlook goes to the ISP server to find new messages for each mailbox, it
finds one in each box but the only address in each is A's address - this is
why when I receive the messages back in Outlook they all appear addressed to
A. Is this the way it should be or is the ISP stripping off the "B" and "C"
address info? I was under the impression that B shsould receive the
message as though it were addressed to B only [and perhaps A?] and C should
receive the message as though it was addressed to C only [and perhaps A?]. As
it actually appears B and C believe that they have received email from A but
addressed to only A.

By the way the same thing happens when I use the ISP webmail interface ...so
if this is a problem it must surely be the ISP mail processing.

"Jocelyn Fiorello [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:

> Sounds to me like you need to talk to your ISP and find out why their server
> is messing up the BCCs...
>
> --
> Jocelyn Fiorello
> MVP - Outlook
>
> *** Messages sent to my e-mail address will NOT be answered -- please reply
> only to the newsgroup to preserve the message thread. ***
>
>
> "geekseeker" wrote:
>
> > A recent MS Inside Office newsletter features an article on how to send a
> > message to many without any knowing that others have receive the message. I
> > attemped to try this using the three account names that I have with my ISP,
> > and got a surprising result.
> >
> > Configuration: Outlook 2003 with three accounts (all member of the same ISP
> > account). Call the account names A, B and C, i.e. (E-Mail Removed), (E-Mail Removed) and
> > (E-Mail Removed).
> >
> > Anomaly. A sends email TO: A with BCC: B & C. What should happen is that B
> > and C receive email without knowing the other also received it. What
> > actually happens is that as the message is sent, B and C addresses are
> > replaced by A's address and A receives three copies, B and C receive none.
> > Variant 2: B or C sends message to themselves with BCC to A and the other.
> > Regardless of who sends the message, the sender is replaced by A as well as
> > BCC addresses are replaced by A and A receives 3 copies. SURPRISE!!!
> >
> > This may be unique to using addresses all within the same ISP account and
> > therefore inconsequential?

 
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=?Utf-8?B?Sm9jZWx5biBGaW9yZWxsbyBbTVZQIC0gT3V0bG9v
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      22nd Jul 2005
OK, I guess your original message confused me, because what you are
describing is how BCC is supposed to work -- sort of. If you (I'll call you
Geek just based on your posting name -- sorry <g>) send a message with Geek
in the To field and Fred and Mary in the BCC field, here is what should
happen:

1) You (Geek) should get one copy of the message -- you will see that it was
addressed to you and you only. You will not see the BCC information
anywhere, not even in the full message headers.

2) Fred and Mary should each get a message which appears to be addressed
only to Geek. They will not see their names or addresses in any field or in
the message header. This may confuse them, but in this day and age many
folks know about BCC, since a lot of ads they get use this technique too.

3) None of you -- Geek, Fred or Mary -- should get more than one copy of the
message unless you, Geek, sent it more than once.

In a nutshell, BCC does not address e-mails individually to the BCC
recipients -- the messages GO to those recipients but that's it. And the ISP
does strip the BCC info after sending the messages to the BCC recipients --
that's to preserve the "blind" part of the BCC concept.

You would need to do a mail merge in order to address each mail to each
contact separately. More information on mail merge can be found here:

http://www.slipstick.com/contacts/startletter.htm
http://www.slipstick.com/addins/mail.htm#massmail

--
Jocelyn Fiorello
MVP - Outlook

*** Messages sent to my e-mail address will NOT be answered -- please reply
only to the newsgroup to preserve the message thread. ***


"geekseeker" wrote:

> Thanks Jocelyn ... I'll give it a try with the ISP, but I am not entirely
> sure the problem is there. May you can help confirm this by looking over the
> following:
>
> After receiving your reply I did run another test then went to the ISP web
> mail site and looked in each of the three mailboxes and found an appropriate
> copy in each. Of interest is that the message in each is addressed only to
> the sender, i.e., "A." While the web mail mailboxes for "B" and "C" contain
> a copy of the message their names do not show up as addressees! SOoooo when
> my Outlook goes to the ISP server to find new messages for each mailbox, it
> finds one in each box but the only address in each is A's address - this is
> why when I receive the messages back in Outlook they all appear addressed to
> A. Is this the way it should be or is the ISP stripping off the "B" and "C"
> address info? I was under the impression that B shsould receive the
> message as though it were addressed to B only [and perhaps A?] and C should
> receive the message as though it was addressed to C only [and perhaps A?]. As
> it actually appears B and C believe that they have received email from A but
> addressed to only A.
>
> By the way the same thing happens when I use the ISP webmail interface ...so
> if this is a problem it must surely be the ISP mail processing.
>
> "Jocelyn Fiorello [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:
>
> > Sounds to me like you need to talk to your ISP and find out why their server
> > is messing up the BCCs...
> >
> > --
> > Jocelyn Fiorello
> > MVP - Outlook
> >
> > *** Messages sent to my e-mail address will NOT be answered -- please reply
> > only to the newsgroup to preserve the message thread. ***
> >
> >
> > "geekseeker" wrote:
> >
> > > A recent MS Inside Office newsletter features an article on how to send a
> > > message to many without any knowing that others have receive the message. I
> > > attemped to try this using the three account names that I have with my ISP,
> > > and got a surprising result.
> > >
> > > Configuration: Outlook 2003 with three accounts (all member of the same ISP
> > > account). Call the account names A, B and C, i.e. (E-Mail Removed), (E-Mail Removed) and
> > > (E-Mail Removed).
> > >
> > > Anomaly. A sends email TO: A with BCC: B & C. What should happen is that B
> > > and C receive email without knowing the other also received it. What
> > > actually happens is that as the message is sent, B and C addresses are
> > > replaced by A's address and A receives three copies, B and C receive none.
> > > Variant 2: B or C sends message to themselves with BCC to A and the other.
> > > Regardless of who sends the message, the sender is replaced by A as well as
> > > BCC addresses are replaced by A and A receives 3 copies. SURPRISE!!!
> > >
> > > This may be unique to using addresses all within the same ISP account and
> > > therefore inconsequential?

 
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=?Utf-8?B?Z2Vla3NlZWtlcg==?=
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      23rd Jul 2005
Thanks, Jocelyn ...very helpful ... everything seems to work the way
intended, just a bit unusal when the BCC addressees have mailboxes within the
same Outlook folder as the sender, i.e. their BCC messages are routed to the
sender's mailbox. This is an unusual configuration for using BCC so really
there is not problem. You were most kind to give this your attention.

"Jocelyn Fiorello [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:

> OK, I guess your original message confused me, because what you are
> describing is how BCC is supposed to work -- sort of. If you (I'll call you
> Geek just based on your posting name -- sorry <g>) send a message with Geek
> in the To field and Fred and Mary in the BCC field, here is what should
> happen:
>
> 1) You (Geek) should get one copy of the message -- you will see that it was
> addressed to you and you only. You will not see the BCC information
> anywhere, not even in the full message headers.
>
> 2) Fred and Mary should each get a message which appears to be addressed
> only to Geek. They will not see their names or addresses in any field or in
> the message header. This may confuse them, but in this day and age many
> folks know about BCC, since a lot of ads they get use this technique too.
>
> 3) None of you -- Geek, Fred or Mary -- should get more than one copy of the
> message unless you, Geek, sent it more than once.
>
> In a nutshell, BCC does not address e-mails individually to the BCC
> recipients -- the messages GO to those recipients but that's it. And the ISP
> does strip the BCC info after sending the messages to the BCC recipients --
> that's to preserve the "blind" part of the BCC concept.
>
> You would need to do a mail merge in order to address each mail to each
> contact separately. More information on mail merge can be found here:
>
> http://www.slipstick.com/contacts/startletter.htm
> http://www.slipstick.com/addins/mail.htm#massmail
>
> --
> Jocelyn Fiorello
> MVP - Outlook
>
> *** Messages sent to my e-mail address will NOT be answered -- please reply
> only to the newsgroup to preserve the message thread. ***
>
>
> "geekseeker" wrote:
>
> > Thanks Jocelyn ... I'll give it a try with the ISP, but I am not entirely
> > sure the problem is there. May you can help confirm this by looking over the
> > following:
> >
> > After receiving your reply I did run another test then went to the ISP web
> > mail site and looked in each of the three mailboxes and found an appropriate
> > copy in each. Of interest is that the message in each is addressed only to
> > the sender, i.e., "A." While the web mail mailboxes for "B" and "C" contain
> > a copy of the message their names do not show up as addressees! SOoooo when
> > my Outlook goes to the ISP server to find new messages for each mailbox, it
> > finds one in each box but the only address in each is A's address - this is
> > why when I receive the messages back in Outlook they all appear addressed to
> > A. Is this the way it should be or is the ISP stripping off the "B" and "C"
> > address info? I was under the impression that B shsould receive the
> > message as though it were addressed to B only [and perhaps A?] and C should
> > receive the message as though it was addressed to C only [and perhaps A?]. As
> > it actually appears B and C believe that they have received email from A but
> > addressed to only A.
> >
> > By the way the same thing happens when I use the ISP webmail interface ...so
> > if this is a problem it must surely be the ISP mail processing.
> >
> > "Jocelyn Fiorello [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:
> >
> > > Sounds to me like you need to talk to your ISP and find out why their server
> > > is messing up the BCCs...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jocelyn Fiorello
> > > MVP - Outlook
> > >
> > > *** Messages sent to my e-mail address will NOT be answered -- please reply
> > > only to the newsgroup to preserve the message thread. ***
> > >
> > >
> > > "geekseeker" wrote:
> > >
> > > > A recent MS Inside Office newsletter features an article on how to send a
> > > > message to many without any knowing that others have receive the message. I
> > > > attemped to try this using the three account names that I have with my ISP,
> > > > and got a surprising result.
> > > >
> > > > Configuration: Outlook 2003 with three accounts (all member of the same ISP
> > > > account). Call the account names A, B and C, i.e. (E-Mail Removed), (E-Mail Removed) and
> > > > (E-Mail Removed).
> > > >
> > > > Anomaly. A sends email TO: A with BCC: B & C. What should happen is that B
> > > > and C receive email without knowing the other also received it. What
> > > > actually happens is that as the message is sent, B and C addresses are
> > > > replaced by A's address and A receives three copies, B and C receive none.
> > > > Variant 2: B or C sends message to themselves with BCC to A and the other.
> > > > Regardless of who sends the message, the sender is replaced by A as well as
> > > > BCC addresses are replaced by A and A receives 3 copies. SURPRISE!!!
> > > >
> > > > This may be unique to using addresses all within the same ISP account and
> > > > therefore inconsequential?

 
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