My elderly system consists of: Asus P4C800-E del, 2Gb ram / Antec Truepower
480W PS / Matrox P650 AGP video / Iiyama AS4332U monitor /Win XP SP3.

This has been hitherto rock solid, but after a recent incident, it now only
gives a black screen on start up Not a case of Windows hanging, methinks, as I
don't reach the Win XP start up screen. Indeed, I no longer even get the Asus
splash screen...or any scrolling post messages!.

The issue started some months ago: monitor screen would occasionally suddenly
start to fracture into a crazed mess of fuzzy, unreadable text. This problem
happened sporadically, but, perhaps significantly?, I could always reliably
induce this screen corruption simply by visiting the BBC iPlayer website. (Flash
overwhelming my Matrox card?). Till now I could always restore proper screen
working by restarting the pc, but on the last occasion, the screen corruption
was so severe that I had to power down the pc...and since then I only get the
black screen, thus am denied any chance to dive into the bios, or
install/uninstall other drivers etc.

The monitor works fine when hooked up to a different pc
Things I've checked so far without success:
- replacing Matrox with a Geforce 6200 AGP card
- resetting bios via MB jumper settings
- booting to a bootable Win CD
- reducing load on MB / PS by removing all peripheral cards and HD's, except for
video card.

I've no other PS available to swap in for the Antec, but last time | checked
with a software utility, the system hardware voltage rails all seemed healthy.
Any pointers? Asus MB blown? I guess it's time long overdue to move on?
--
Tom McCreadie

On 15/10/2011 10:18 PM, Tom McCreadie wrote:
> My elderly system consists of: Asus P4C800-E del, 2Gb ram / Antec Truepower
> 480W PS / Matrox P650 AGP video / Iiyama AS4332U monitor /Win XP SP3.
>
> This has been hitherto rock solid, but after a recent incident, it now only
> gives a black screen on start up Not a case of Windows hanging, methinks, as I
> don't reach the Win XP start up screen. Indeed, I no longer even get the Asus
> splash screen...or any scrolling post messages!.
>
> The issue started some months ago: monitor screen would occasionally suddenly
> start to fracture into a crazed mess of fuzzy, unreadable text. This problem
> happened sporadically, but, perhaps significantly?, I could always reliably
> induce this screen corruption simply by visiting the BBC iPlayer website. (Flash
> overwhelming my Matrox card?). Till now I could always restore proper screen
> working by restarting the pc, but on the last occasion, the screen corruption
> was so severe that I had to power down the pc...and since then I only get the
> black screen, thus am denied any chance to dive into the bios, or
> install/uninstall other drivers etc.
>
> The monitor works fine when hooked up to a different pc
> Things I've checked so far without success:
> - replacing Matrox with a Geforce 6200 AGP card
> - resetting bios via MB jumper settings
> - booting to a bootable Win CD
> - reducing load on MB / PS by removing all peripheral cards and HD's, except for
> video card.
>
> I've no other PS available to swap in for the Antec, but last time | checked
> with a software utility, the system hardware voltage rails all seemed healthy.
> Any pointers? Asus MB blown? I guess it's time long overdue to move on?

Try swapping out memory sticks. IE, remove all but one, try starting the
beast. Then substitute a different memory stick each time you try a
restart. Only takes one faulty one to stop everything. Don't forget to
remove the power cord each time BEFORE removing or inserting RAM. I also
press the power switch once to get rid of any stray capacitance charge
as well.

--

Krypsis

On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:18:30 +0200, Tom McCreadie rearranged some
electrons to say:

> My elderly system consists of: Asus P4C800-E del, 2Gb ram / Antec
> Truepower 480W PS / Matrox P650 AGP video / Iiyama AS4332U monitor /Win
> XP SP3.
>
> This has been hitherto rock solid, but after a recent incident, it now
> only gives a black screen on start up Not a case of Windows hanging,
> methinks, as I don't reach the Win XP start up screen. Indeed, I no
> longer even get the Asus splash screen...or any scrolling post
> messages!.
>
> The issue started some months ago: monitor screen would occasionally
> suddenly start to fracture into a crazed mess of fuzzy, unreadable text.
> This problem happened sporadically, but, perhaps significantly?, I could
> always reliably induce this screen corruption simply by visiting the BBC
> iPlayer website. (Flash overwhelming my Matrox card?). Till now I could
> always restore proper screen working by restarting the pc, but on the
> last occasion, the screen corruption was so severe that I had to power
> down the pc...and since then I only get the black screen, thus am denied
> any chance to dive into the bios, or install/uninstall other drivers
> etc.
>
> The monitor works fine when hooked up to a different pc Things I've
> checked so far without success:
> - replacing Matrox with a Geforce 6200 AGP card - resetting bios via MB
> jumper settings - booting to a bootable Win CD - reducing load on MB /
> PS by removing all peripheral cards and HD's, except for video card.
>
> I've no other PS available to swap in for the Antec, but last time |
> checked with a software utility, the system hardware voltage rails all
> seemed healthy. Any pointers? Asus MB blown? I guess it's time long
> overdue to move on?

Check for bulging capacitors.
http://www.badcaps.net/

On Oct 15, 7:18 am, Tom McCreadie <mccreadi.spam...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> My elderly system consists of: Asus P4C800-E del, 2Gb ram / Antec Truepower
> 480W PS / Matrox P650 AGP video / Iiyama AS4332U monitor /Win XP SP3.
>
> This has been hitherto rock solid, but after a recent incident, it now only
> gives a black screen on start up Not a case of Windows hanging, methinks, as I
> don't reach the Win XP start up screen. Indeed, I no longer even get the Asus
> splash screen...or any scrolling post messages!.
>
> The issue started some months ago: monitor screen would occasionally suddenly
> start to fracture into a crazed mess of fuzzy, unreadable text. This problem
> happened sporadically, but, perhaps significantly?, I could always reliably
> induce this screen corruption simply by visiting the BBC iPlayer website. (Flash
> overwhelming my Matrox card?). Till now I could always restore proper screen
> working by restarting the pc, but on the last occasion, the screen corruption
> was so severe that I had to power down the pc...and since then I only get the
> black screen, thus am denied any chance to dive into the bios, or
> install/uninstall other drivers etc.
>
> The monitor works fine when hooked up to a different pc
> Things I've checked so far without success:
> - replacing Matrox with a Geforce 6200 AGP card
> - resetting bios via MB jumper settings
> - booting to a bootable Win CD
> - reducing load on MB / PS by removing all peripheral cards and HD's, except for
> video card.
>
> I've no other PS available to swap in for the Antec, but last time | checked
> with a software utility, the system hardware voltage rails all seemed healthy.
> Any pointers? Asus MB blown? I guess it's time long overdue to move on?
> --
> Tom McCreadie

My asus may be older, AMD ASUS socket 756 setup. It has it's
anomalies, for sure, although not to the point of unreachable BIOS.
You can mess with the CPU and memory timings, voltages, depending on
availability. I have, keeping as close to stock as possible. No
help, really, though. Somebody was mentioning a P4 host frequency or
something. Mine's 100 on a Celeron D, maybe 533, 478 ASUS setup, but
I'll be swapping in a P4 800 sometime soon and I'll have to remember
to see if the BIOS auto setting bumps the host freq up to 200. You
could try taking it down to 100 if possible. That system has been
relatively solid, though. Almost seems newish at least to me. This
AMD noway & flatout isn't. I *have had* luck with swapping power
supplies on not only the AMD. . .with the AMD it gets better, a little
and for awhile I guess, considering how bad it's really gotten over
the years, and that's worse for the wear on pretty much an all
downhill course. I'm fed up dicking with and feeding it power
supplies. Keeping an eyeball out for extra sweet deals, I am, that
and swapping around variously a couple semi-reasonably working extra,
single-core setups. These days prices I find things overall pretty
peachy compared to some of the crap I'd buy at unbelievable
yesteryear's prices. Can't wait to try my very first PCI-EXPRESS
card.

Tom McCreadie wrote:
> My elderly system consists of: Asus P4C800-E del, 2Gb ram / Antec Truepower
> 480W PS / Matrox P650 AGP video / Iiyama AS4332U monitor /Win XP SP3.
>
> This has been hitherto rock solid, but after a recent incident, it now only
> gives a black screen on start up Not a case of Windows hanging, methinks, as I
> don't reach the Win XP start up screen. Indeed, I no longer even get the Asus
> splash screen...or any scrolling post messages!.
>
> The issue started some months ago: monitor screen would occasionally suddenly
> start to fracture into a crazed mess of fuzzy, unreadable text. This problem
> happened sporadically, but, perhaps significantly?, I could always reliably
> induce this screen corruption simply by visiting the BBC iPlayer website. (Flash
> overwhelming my Matrox card?). Till now I could always restore proper screen
> working by restarting the pc, but on the last occasion, the screen corruption
> was so severe that I had to power down the pc...and since then I only get the
> black screen, thus am denied any chance to dive into the bios, or
> install/uninstall other drivers etc.
>
> The monitor works fine when hooked up to a different pc
> Things I've checked so far without success:
> - replacing Matrox with a Geforce 6200 AGP card
> - resetting bios via MB jumper settings
> - booting to a bootable Win CD
> - reducing load on MB / PS by removing all peripheral cards and HD's, except for
> video card.
>
> I've no other PS available to swap in for the Antec, but last time | checked
> with a software utility, the system hardware voltage rails all seemed healthy.
> Any pointers? Asus MB blown? I guess it's time long overdue to move on?

If you're done a "Clear CMOS", that returns the P4C800-E Deluxe to using
"full screen logo" during startup. That would normally be covering the text
during POST. One of the first things I do on that motherboard, is disable
"full screen logo", so the text will be visible. Not that it matters in this case.
Removing full screen logo, makes it easier to determine how far along in POST
it is getting. And I like to leave it that way, in case of later troubles.

So what I think we know in this case is:

1) Machine stuck at BIOS level.
2) No beep pattern to speak of (as the machine beeps a code if the BIOS detects a problem).
3) No audible error messages (as the board has the Winbond Voice chip and if you're using
motherboard Line_Out connector and have the Winbond enabled, you could also potentially
hear a message on there).

Along Krypsis line of thinking, I'd remove *all* memory DIMMs (with power completely
removed). Then, start the system. Does the computer case speaker beep a repeating
"bad RAM" message ? If it does, that means the processor has been able to execute
enough code, to be able to attempt startup of the RAM. And that's a good sign, that
BIOS code is loading. If the machine will beep, that helps test CPU, NB/SB chipset,
BIOS ROM, and so on. A lot of the system has to work, in order for it to beep.

If you get no reaction, no beeps, black screen, then that means the processor is
not able to execute code. You'd want to get a multimeter and verify voltages at
that point, because, after all, you did mention Antec Truepower, and some of
those have died with bad caps inside the power supply. I have two dead Antecs here.
On one of them, the five volt output eventually died (went out of spec), due to
leaking caps that filter that output. You get the orange/brown crud seen on the
caps in this picture. There are at least five bad caps in this picture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg

If a replacement supply won't bring it to its senses, then you have
many possibilities. If it won't beep, with the RAM removed, then also
remove the video card and retest. If a video card was to "short out" the
AGP bus, that might load the Northbridge enough to prevent proper operation
of the rest of the interfaces. So a second "beep test case", is with
both RAM and video removed.

That might leave motherboard or CPU, of which motherboard is the "weak link".
CPUs are generally pretty good, with the odd batch that "escapes proper testing"
at the factory. You don't see that too often. Your system is old enough, the
processor is not an "infant mortality". I'd tend to look at motherboard
first in that case, unless the processor has already been giving signs of
trouble. If you'd been torturing the processor, you probably would have
mentioned that by now :-) Northwood processors suffer from "sudden death"
syndrome, if you apply the right value of boosted VCore. But that might take
the max setting the BIOS has to offer, for VCore.

With regard to the chipset, there have been many motherboard failures due to
ICH5/ICH5R. But that kind of failure is very sudden - one day it works, the
next day it doesn't. The root cause could be a "latchup" failure. Sometimes,
all the USB ports blow, and the board still boots. But if you see this
burn mark, "she's dead Scotty". If it's burned like this (and the warranty
is long gone), it means finding another motherboard.

http://onfinite.com/libraries/179057/2ea.jpg

Paul

>Try swapping out memory sticks. IE, remove all but one, try starting the
>beast. Then substitute a different memory stick each time you try a
>restart. Only takes one faulty one to stop everything.

Thanks for alerting to possible memory issues. My PSU is a Prescott P4 3.2GHz
(FSB Freq 800 Mhz; FSB speed 200 MHz), and the MB was loaded with four 512 MB
sticks of Kingston DDR-400 RAM [KVR400x64C3A/512; PC3200 (200 MHz). I've since
tried booting with all permissible perrmutations of one-, two- and four sticks,
as described in the Asus MB manual, but this did not help.
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA

>Check for bulging capacitors.
>http://www.badcaps.net/

Thanks for that bad cap url. I've now scrutinized the P4C800-E Del MB and all
the caps seem to be in fine shape. I haven't yet opened and inpected the Antec
PSU, though
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA

>
>My asus may be older, AMD ASUS socket 756 setup. It has it's
>anomalies, for sure, although not to the point of unreachable BIOS.
>You can mess with the CPU and memory timings, voltages, depending on
>availability. I have, keeping as close to stock as possible. No
>help, really, though. Somebody was mentioning a P4 host frequency or
>something. Mine's 100 on a Celeron D, maybe 533, 478 ASUS setup, but
>I'll be swapping in a P4 800 sometime soon and I'll have to remember
>to see if the BIOS auto setting bumps the host freq up to 200. You
>could try taking it down to 100 if possible. That system has been
>relatively solid, though. ....

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately I cannot report on, let alone adjust, the
current state of my bios settings because of the frustrating 'chicken and egg'
situation that I'm now unable to get access to the bios.

Generally I have always run with conservative 'auto / default' settings, with no
overclocking or agressive timings.
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA

Tom McCreadie wrote:

> I've no other PS available to swap in for the Antec, but last time |
> checked with a software utility, the system hardware voltage rails
> all seemed healthy. Any pointers?

My local Fry's often has sales on PS as low as $20, whereas retail price
when you need one is much much more expensive.

So I buy one on sale when I don't need one and so there is always a
brand new 'spare' around for me to troubleshoot with.

I also keep a spare bought-on-sale router around for the same reasons.

--
Mike Easter

>
>If you're done a "Clear CMOS", that returns the P4C800-E Deluxe to using
>"full screen logo" during startup. That would normally be covering the text
>during POST. One of the first things I do on that motherboard, is disable
>"full screen logo", so the text will be visible. Not that it matters in this case.
>Removing full screen logo, makes it easier to determine how far along in POST
>it is getting. And I like to leave it that way, in case of later troubles.
>
>So what I think we know in this case is:
>
>1) Machine stuck at BIOS level.
>2) No beep pattern to speak of (as the machine beeps a code if the BIOS detects a problem).
>3) No audible error messages (as the board has the Winbond Voice chip and if you're using
> motherboard Line_Out connector and have the Winbond enabled, you could also potentially
> hear a message on there).
>
>Along Krypsis line of thinking, I'd remove *all* memory DIMMs (with power completely
>removed). Then, start the system. Does the computer case speaker beep a repeating
>"bad RAM" message ? If it does, that means the processor has been able to execute
>enough code, to be able to attempt startup of the RAM. And that's a good sign, that
>BIOS code is loading. If the machine will beep, that helps test CPU, NB/SB chipset,
>BIOS ROM, and so on. A lot of the system has to work, in order for it to beep.
>
>If you get no reaction, no beeps, black screen, then that means the processor is
>not able to execute code. You'd want to get a multimeter and verify voltages at
>that point, because, after all, you did mention Antec Truepower, and some of
>those have died with bad caps inside the power supply. I have two dead Antecs here.
>On one of them, the five volt output eventually died (went out of spec), due to
>leaking caps that filter that output. You get the orange/brown crud seen on the
>caps in this picture. There are at least five bad caps in this picture.
>
>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...4/PSU_Caps.jpg
>
<rest benignly snipped>

Thanks for the typically thorough reply, Paul. You bring up a lot of
considerations that I still have to work my way through.

My 'Clear CMOS' procedure was: disconnect MB power > move a MB jumper from 1-2
to 2-3 for a few secs, then back to 1-2 > restore power. But I did not remove or
replace the CMOS battery. OK?

I get no Winbond Voice audible error message and also get no PC case speaker
beeps when I boot with no memory installed. Ditto when booting with all memory
re-installed. (<- all these tests were run with video card installedI). My
Winbond Voice is presumably still active, as I recall using it during my system
build; but I guess I need to dredge up the handbook of my Antec P160 case to
check if my case speaker is still properly connected :-) All the caps on the
MB appear fine. I still have to inspect the innards of the Antec or measure the
voltage rails...but at least the MB and case fans, drive bay lights etc. all
work fine.

FWIW, on a few occasions (generally unconnected to my aforementioned fuzzy
screen issue ) when my system has hung and needed a power-off reset, I often
have seen an errror message on reboot: "system overclocking failure". I found
that mystifying as I never overclock. But maybe that was linked to my
impatient, multiple-pressing of the case 'reset' button. (I recall a thread back
in June where you pointed out the consequences to the bios of using the 'reset')
.. .
--
Tom McCreadie

Live at The London Palindrome - ABBA