PC Review


Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread

Big problem, Outlook 2007 and Solid State Disks (SSD)

 
 
Mixing Solutions Ltd
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      1st Aug 2008
I've a user with a Dell laptop that was purchased with a 64GB Samsung SSD,
and ever since getting the laptop at the start of 2008 he's had a severe
problem with it where the laptop regularly hangs for 30 seconds or so. The
cause of the problem has been narrowed down to Outlook 2007 ! (after many
months and plenty of research/testing).

Recently whilst conducting more reasearch on this I came across the
following...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940226

.... so I now have hard evidence that there is an issue with Outlook 2007 and
SSD's.

OK, now how the heck do I find out what Microsoft are actualy doing to try
and fix this issue ?. I doubt they will let me discuss this with the 'Outlook
Product Team' ?, also how far away could the fix be as if it's months away
I'm going to have to argue with Dell to get the SSD swapped over with a
standard HDD as I very much they even know about this problem

Thanks.
 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
 
Roady [MVP]
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      1st Aug 2008
Call Microsoft and find out. They could have a BETA Hotfix available for you
or they could use your feedback to come up with a solution faster. The more
info about an issue, the easier it could be to troubleshoot it and come to a
solution. Also knowing how many people are affected by the issue could
increase the priority of the issue.

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
http://www.howto-outlook.com/
Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more

http://www.msoutlook.info/
Real World Questions, Real World Answers

-----

"Mixing Solutions Ltd" <Mixing Solutions (E-Mail Removed)>
wrote in message news:CE26E1E3-34B4-4646-9C95-(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've a user with a Dell laptop that was purchased with a 64GB Samsung SSD,
> and ever since getting the laptop at the start of 2008 he's had a severe
> problem with it where the laptop regularly hangs for 30 seconds or so. The
> cause of the problem has been narrowed down to Outlook 2007 ! (after many
> months and plenty of research/testing).
>
> Recently whilst conducting more reasearch on this I came across the
> following...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940226
>
> ... so I now have hard evidence that there is an issue with Outlook 2007
> and
> SSD's.
>
> OK, now how the heck do I find out what Microsoft are actualy doing to try
> and fix this issue ?. I doubt they will let me discuss this with the
> 'Outlook
> Product Team' ?, also how far away could the fix be as if it's months away
> I'm going to have to argue with Dell to get the SSD swapped over with a
> standard HDD as I very much they even know about this problem
>
> Thanks.


 
Reply With Quote
 
Mixing Solutions Ltd
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      1st Aug 2008
I would love to but to talk to someone at Microsoft I'd have log a support
call with them which is chargeable, I'm not aware of a means of contacting
them which is free ?.

"Roady [MVP]" wrote:

> Call Microsoft and find out. They could have a BETA Hotfix available for you
> or they could use your feedback to come up with a solution faster. The more
> info about an issue, the easier it could be to troubleshoot it and come to a
> solution. Also knowing how many people are affected by the issue could
> increase the priority of the issue.
>
> --
> Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
> Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
> http://www.howto-outlook.com/
> Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more
>
> http://www.msoutlook.info/
> Real World Questions, Real World Answers
>
> -----
>
> "Mixing Solutions Ltd" <Mixing Solutions (E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in message news:CE26E1E3-34B4-4646-9C95-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I've a user with a Dell laptop that was purchased with a 64GB Samsung SSD,
> > and ever since getting the laptop at the start of 2008 he's had a severe
> > problem with it where the laptop regularly hangs for 30 seconds or so. The
> > cause of the problem has been narrowed down to Outlook 2007 ! (after many
> > months and plenty of research/testing).
> >
> > Recently whilst conducting more reasearch on this I came across the
> > following...
> >
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940226
> >
> > ... so I now have hard evidence that there is an issue with Outlook 2007
> > and
> > SSD's.
> >
> > OK, now how the heck do I find out what Microsoft are actualy doing to try
> > and fix this issue ?. I doubt they will let me discuss this with the
> > 'Outlook
> > Product Team' ?, also how far away could the fix be as if it's months away
> > I'm going to have to argue with Dell to get the SSD swapped over with a
> > standard HDD as I very much they even know about this problem
> >
> > Thanks.

>
>

 
Reply With Quote
 
Roady [MVP]
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      1st Aug 2008
Discussing or reporting bugs and security issues is free of charge. Also
when you ask support for an issue that appears to be a bug, support costs
are weaved afterwards.

--
Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
http://www.howto-outlook.com/
Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more

http://www.msoutlook.info/
Real World Questions, Real World Answers

-----

"Mixing Solutions Ltd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in message news:B2D7D854-152F-44D1-9EE0-(E-Mail Removed)...
> I would love to but to talk to someone at Microsoft I'd have log a support
> call with them which is chargeable, I'm not aware of a means of contacting
> them which is free ?.
>
> "Roady [MVP]" wrote:
>
>> Call Microsoft and find out. They could have a BETA Hotfix available for
>> you
>> or they could use your feedback to come up with a solution faster. The
>> more
>> info about an issue, the easier it could be to troubleshoot it and come
>> to a
>> solution. Also knowing how many people are affected by the issue could
>> increase the priority of the issue.
>>
>> --
>> Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
>> Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
>> http://www.howto-outlook.com/
>> Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more
>>
>> http://www.msoutlook.info/
>> Real World Questions, Real World Answers
>>
>> -----
>>
>> "Mixing Solutions Ltd" <Mixing Solutions (E-Mail Removed)>
>> wrote in message
>> news:CE26E1E3-34B4-4646-9C95-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > I've a user with a Dell laptop that was purchased with a 64GB Samsung
>> > SSD,
>> > and ever since getting the laptop at the start of 2008 he's had a
>> > severe
>> > problem with it where the laptop regularly hangs for 30 seconds or so.
>> > The
>> > cause of the problem has been narrowed down to Outlook 2007 ! (after
>> > many
>> > months and plenty of research/testing).
>> >
>> > Recently whilst conducting more reasearch on this I came across the
>> > following...
>> >
>> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940226
>> >
>> > ... so I now have hard evidence that there is an issue with Outlook
>> > 2007
>> > and
>> > SSD's.
>> >
>> > OK, now how the heck do I find out what Microsoft are actualy doing to
>> > try
>> > and fix this issue ?. I doubt they will let me discuss this with the
>> > 'Outlook
>> > Product Team' ?, also how far away could the fix be as if it's months
>> > away
>> > I'm going to have to argue with Dell to get the SSD swapped over with a
>> > standard HDD as I very much they even know about this problem
>> >
>> > Thanks.

>>
>>

 
Reply With Quote
 
Mixing Solutions Ltd
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      4th Aug 2008
Well, I contacted Microsoft and mentioned the article below, the bottom line
was that to take this any further I have to log a support call costing
£195.00 GBP !. This is without any guarantee of a fix, so far I can see the
t's and c's relating to support calls anywhere but I'll find them out first.

I was polite on the telephone as the member of call centre staff is just
doing their job.

I'm very annoyed though in that the article below states that this is a
known issue without a fix and that the the product team are working on it.
I'd like to think that they would jump at the chance to take a look at this
laptop as it's further evidence of the issue and they could use it to work
towards a fix for all users.

I'm going to see if there's a way of containg them without having to log a
support call but I doubt that there is ?...

"Roady [MVP]" wrote:

> Discussing or reporting bugs and security issues is free of charge. Also
> when you ask support for an issue that appears to be a bug, support costs
> are weaved afterwards.
>
> --
> Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
> Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
> http://www.howto-outlook.com/
> Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more
>
> http://www.msoutlook.info/
> Real World Questions, Real World Answers
>
> -----
>
> "Mixing Solutions Ltd" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> in message news:B2D7D854-152F-44D1-9EE0-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I would love to but to talk to someone at Microsoft I'd have log a support
> > call with them which is chargeable, I'm not aware of a means of contacting
> > them which is free ?.
> >
> > "Roady [MVP]" wrote:
> >
> >> Call Microsoft and find out. They could have a BETA Hotfix available for
> >> you
> >> or they could use your feedback to come up with a solution faster. The
> >> more
> >> info about an issue, the easier it could be to troubleshoot it and come
> >> to a
> >> solution. Also knowing how many people are affected by the issue could
> >> increase the priority of the issue.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
> >> Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
> >> http://www.howto-outlook.com/
> >> Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more
> >>
> >> http://www.msoutlook.info/
> >> Real World Questions, Real World Answers
> >>
> >> -----
> >>
> >> "Mixing Solutions Ltd" <Mixing Solutions (E-Mail Removed)>
> >> wrote in message
> >> news:CE26E1E3-34B4-4646-9C95-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > I've a user with a Dell laptop that was purchased with a 64GB Samsung
> >> > SSD,
> >> > and ever since getting the laptop at the start of 2008 he's had a
> >> > severe
> >> > problem with it where the laptop regularly hangs for 30 seconds or so.
> >> > The
> >> > cause of the problem has been narrowed down to Outlook 2007 ! (after
> >> > many
> >> > months and plenty of research/testing).
> >> >
> >> > Recently whilst conducting more reasearch on this I came across the
> >> > following...
> >> >
> >> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940226
> >> >
> >> > ... so I now have hard evidence that there is an issue with Outlook
> >> > 2007
> >> > and
> >> > SSD's.
> >> >
> >> > OK, now how the heck do I find out what Microsoft are actualy doing to
> >> > try
> >> > and fix this issue ?. I doubt they will let me discuss this with the
> >> > 'Outlook
> >> > Product Team' ?, also how far away could the fix be as if it's months
> >> > away
> >> > I'm going to have to argue with Dell to get the SSD swapped over with a
> >> > standard HDD as I very much they even know about this problem
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >>
> >>

>

 
Reply With Quote
 
D D
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      21st Sep 2008
I developed these tricks for a eee PC 1000. It should work for XP, Vista, and Outlook 2003 / 2007.

Read it here:

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=44736

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=44928


The gist is XP / Vista were architectured for very small amounts of DRAM, and relatively slow hard drives.

Techniques like caching, prefetch, etc. are all intended to optimize for mechanical hard drives.

SSDs basically read samll, random files fast, (with out the need for regular defrag), but write very slowly especially if the data is in large blocks (which means it has to erase an entire block just to write a file that may take only 1% of the size of the block).

A mechanical hard drive can write 2 bytes and ignore the rest of the space in an 8k block. An SSD has to erase an entire 8k block just to write 2 bytes.

Programs like Outlook that writes lots of small files are a killer.

So the fix is real simple --- use very small sized clusters, 512k in my case, and then turn off a lot of unnecessary disk activity that an SSD do not need, like NT Journaling, writing the date and time of last access, etc.

Also, do not use SSD for a page file if at all possible --- too much writes.

Because SSDs have a potential failure mode where the entire block can fail (or drive) rather than a hard drive's more forgiving partial failure, I also recommend that you backup the Outlook pst or ost files to an entirely different drive regularly.

Good luck.






 
Reply With Quote
 
D
Guest
Posts: n/a
 
      21st Sep 2008

developed these tricks for a eee PC 1000. It should work for XP, Vista,
and Outlook 2003 / 2007.



Read it here:



http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=44736



http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?id=44928





The gist is XP / Vista were architectured for very small amounts of DRAM,
and relatively slow hard drives.



Techniques like caching, prefetch, etc. are all intended to optimize for
mechanical hard drives.



SSDs basically read samll, random files fast, (with out the need for regular
defrag), but write very slowly especially if the data is in large blocks
(which means it has to erase an entire block just to write a file that may
take only 1% of the size of the block).



A mechanical hard drive can write 2 bytes and ignore the rest of the space
in an 8k block. An SSD has to erase an entire 8k block just to write 2 bytes.



Programs like Outlook that writes lots of small files are a killer.



So the fix is real simple --- use very small sized clusters, 512k in my
case, and then turn off a lot of unnecessary disk activity that an SSD do not
need, like NT Journaling, writing the date and time of last access, etc.



Also, do not use SSD for a page file if at all possible --- too much writes.



Because SSDs have a potential failure mode where the entire block can fail
(or drive) rather than a hard drive's more forgiving partial failure, I also
recommend that you backup the Outlook pst or ost files to an entirely
different drive regularly.

These solutions fix the problem of slow reads of the in box, but if you go
to the other boxes (sent, deleted) the slowness problem recurs probably
because Outlook is rewriting the entire file even if you just read one
message.


Good luck.



"Roady [MVP]" wrote:

> Call Microsoft and find out. They could have a BETA Hotfix available for you
> or they could use your feedback to come up with a solution faster. The more
> info about an issue, the easier it could be to troubleshoot it and come to a
> solution. Also knowing how many people are affected by the issue could
> increase the priority of the issue.
>
> --
> Robert Sparnaaij [MVP-Outlook]
> Coauthor, Configuring Microsoft Outlook 2003
> http://www.howto-outlook.com/
> Outlook FAQ, HowTo, Downloads, Add-Ins and more
>
> http://www.msoutlook.info/
> Real World Questions, Real World Answers
>
> -----
>
> "Mixing Solutions Ltd" <Mixing Solutions (E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote in message news:CE26E1E3-34B4-4646-9C95-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I've a user with a Dell laptop that was purchased with a 64GB Samsung SSD,
> > and ever since getting the laptop at the start of 2008 he's had a severe
> > problem with it where the laptop regularly hangs for 30 seconds or so. The
> > cause of the problem has been narrowed down to Outlook 2007 ! (after many
> > months and plenty of research/testing).
> >
> > Recently whilst conducting more reasearch on this I came across the
> > following...
> >
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940226
> >
> > ... so I now have hard evidence that there is an issue with Outlook 2007
> > and
> > SSD's.
> >
> > OK, now how the heck do I find out what Microsoft are actualy doing to try
> > and fix this issue ?. I doubt they will let me discuss this with the
> > 'Outlook
> > Product Team' ?, also how far away could the fix be as if it's months away
> > I'm going to have to argue with Dell to get the SSD swapped over with a
> > standard HDD as I very much they even know about this problem
> >
> > Thanks.

>
>

 
Reply With Quote
 
 
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Solid State Capacitors TVeblen DIY PC 4 23rd Nov 2008 05:00 AM
How to compare solid state disks to standard SATA disks ? johns DIY PC 5 28th Sep 2008 02:39 PM
Solid state hard disks Man-wai Chang ToDie Storage Devices 2 10th Feb 2008 02:39 PM
Samsung launches PCs with solid-state disks Andy Computer Hardware 11 26th May 2006 06:32 AM
solid state HD's? Ben Trower DIY PC 5 12th Jul 2004 06:31 AM


Features
 

Advertising
 

Newsgroups
 


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:57 AM.