Hello,

can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my Duron
1300 producing faults at Prime95...

http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/

MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.

Thanks
Zdenek Sojka

The only way to test capacitors is to use an ESR meter, or to substitute
them.

--

Jerry G.
======


"Zdenek Sojka" <xXzsoXjkaXx.AT.@seXznamX.cz> wrote in message
news:d1js6h$1q0u$(E-Mail Removed)...
Hello,

can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my Duron
1300 producing faults at Prime95...

http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/

MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.

Thanks
Zdenek Sojka

Well, thats the reason why I am asking... testing the CPU in different PC
would be a waste of time, as that cannot be 100% proof of bad MB. Also I
dont have any chance to test if caps are good.
If someone has seen caps like these not working, then that can be a
reason...

"Jerry G." <(E-Mail Removed)> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> The only way to test capacitors is to use an ESR meter, or to substitute
> them.
>
> --
>
> Jerry G.
> ======
>
>
> "Zdenek Sojka" <xXzsoXjkaXx.AT.@seXznamX.cz> wrote in message
> news:d1js6h$1q0u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my Duron
> 1300 producing faults at Prime95...
>
> http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/
>
> MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.
>
> Thanks
> Zdenek Sojka
>
>
>

I had to replace a number of caps on the 2000 vintage MSI K7T PRO
(MS-6330) that came with my gateway pc. The quickest way to tell if
they are bad is to check if the tops appear bulged (should be flat), or
if there is electrolyte on the mobo surrounding them (looks a bit like
oil). They're fairly easy to replace if you know how to solder, if not
don't even attempt it, especially with the thin, cramped traces on these
mobos. See http://www.badcaps.com/ A good source for the caps is
digikey.com

Dan

Zdenek Sojka wrote:
> Hello,
>
> can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my Duron
> 1300 producing faults at Prime95...
>
> http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/
>
> MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.
>
> Thanks
> Zdenek Sojka
>
>

"Zdenek Sojka" <xXzsoXjkaXx.AT.@seXznamX.cz> wrote in message
news:d1js6h$1q0u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my
> Duron
> 1300 producing faults at Prime95...
>
> http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/
>
> MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.
>
> Thanks
> Zdenek Sojka
>
>


How old is the Abit motherboard (from when you bought it)? Abit got hit
by a class action lawsuit to make them replace bad caps. They were the
only one to openly announce that some of their motherboards had bad
caps. MANY other mobo makers had these bad caps but they denied the
problem. It was a case of espionage gone bad as only half the formula
got stolen. They extended the 1-year warranty to 3 years. A couple
months ago they got slapped with a class action lawsuit to force them
what they already volunteered to do (except, I believe, they now have to
pay for return shipping). See
http://www.pcstats.com/NewsView.cfm?NewsID=40744 and
http://snipurl.com/ggroups_abit_caps. For opening up about the problem
and graciously helping their customers, their reward was to get slapped
in the face. But they don't do that again and instead will let follow
the lead from the other mobo makers: screw the customers that sue even
when you go beyond what all other mobo makers are doing. Obviously if
you send them a mobo that does not have bad capacitors means they will
return the motherboard and charge you for shipping (both ways) because
you wasted their time for non-warranty service.

So what makes you believe the electryolytic capacitors are at fault?
You could use an oscilloscope to look at the voltage levels and also
check for the amount of ripple on each voltage line across the caps. If
the caps aren't bulging (on the normally flat top) or leaking out (which
looks like a black stain) then my guess is that you read something and
incorrectly associate that problem with whatever is your problem.

Is you PC unstable when it just sits there after the POST but you do NOT
load Windows (or any other operating system)? Is it unstable when you
use a bootable floppy to go into MS-DOS? Is it unstable when you boot
into Recovery Console mode? Is it unstable if you boot using a bootable
CD that loads a different operating system? And just WHAT do you mean
by unstable? Hell, that could be because you used an underpowered power
supply, or got a cheapie that can't manage to put out more than 75% of
its bogus rated output, or you have added lots more drives and other
internal devices and simply loaded the power supply beyond the original
configuration for the box. Maybe you have a virus, like the one that
forces a shutdown. Maybe you installed software that is generating a
BSOD (blue screen of death). Maybe you installed a crappy device driver
or the wrong one (i.e., not for the operating system that you use).

Saying it is unstable is like going to the car shop and saying, "It's
broke." Extremely vague.

--
____________________________________________________________
Post your replies to the newsgroup. Share with others.
E-mail reply: Remove "NIXTHIS" and add "#VS811" to Subject.
____________________________________________________________

Aha, thanks, it seems that the photo P3180010.JPG exactly shows electrolyte
has flown from capacitors.
Too bad news ;-(
On the site is also a note about KT7 that it is one of the worst MBs...
The 'kit' would cost about $30 and without chance of shipping ... anyway,
changing only 10 caps would not be so expensive - I can buy it in my city.
But if I did any mistake while soldering, the MB would go dead anyway.
Nowadays, with SocketA MB prices at ~ $40 its a better way to buy a new one
(after this fails totally, buy a new one)

Thanks
Zdenek Sojka

"Dan" <(E-Mail Removed)> píse v diskusním príspevku
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I had to replace a number of caps on the 2000 vintage MSI K7T PRO
> (MS-6330) that came with my gateway pc. The quickest way to tell if
> they are bad is to check if the tops appear bulged (should be flat), or
> if there is electrolyte on the mobo surrounding them (looks a bit like
> oil). They're fairly easy to replace if you know how to solder, if not
> don't even attempt it, especially with the thin, cramped traces on these
> mobos. See http://www.badcaps.com/ A good source for the caps is
> digikey.com
>
> Dan
>
> Zdenek Sojka wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my
Duron
> > 1300 producing faults at Prime95...
> >
> > http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/
> >
> > MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Zdenek Sojka
> >
> >

Not possible to declare caps good from visual inspection.
In simpler terms, you cannot see electrons. Test equipment is
required. One method is to remove caps to test their ESR.
Another means using the oscilloscope while the motherboard is
powered and running. It may be possible to see a defect with
a multimeter if those capacitors are heated with a hairdryer
on high or hotter - which is still 'pig heaven' normal
temperature to electronics. The multimeter idea is not as
reliable - but reports far more than visual inspection.

Capacitors that are failing but not yet failed are best
observed by test equipment when heat is applied. Heat makes
the defective component temporarily more obviously defective.
There is no way to confirm component integrity with visual
inspection. Visual inspection can only identify the worst and
most grossly obvious failure - the rarest of failures.

Zdenek Sojka wrote:
> Well, thats the reason why I am asking... testing the CPU in different
> PC would be a waste of time, as that cannot be 100% proof of bad MB.
> Also I dont have any chance to test if caps are good. If someone has
> seen caps like these not working, then that can be a reason...

"Vanguard" <use_ReplyTo_header> píse v diskusním príspevku
news:1t-dnX_-a9DuAaDfRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Zdenek Sojka" <xXzsoXjkaXx.AT.@seXznamX.cz> wrote in message
> news:d1js6h$1q0u$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hello,
> >
> > can be these caps reason for my PC instability? Even on 1.85V is my
> > Duron
> > 1300 producing faults at Prime95...
> >
> > http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/
> >
> > MB is Abit KT7, VIA KT133.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Zdenek Sojka
> >
> >
>
>
> How old is the Abit motherboard (from when you bought it)? Abit got hit
> by a class action lawsuit to make them replace bad caps. They were the
> only one to openly announce that some of their motherboards had bad
> caps. MANY other mobo makers had these bad caps but they denied the
> problem. It was a case of espionage gone bad as only half the formula
> got stolen. They extended the 1-year warranty to 3 years. A couple
> months ago they got slapped with a class action lawsuit to force them
> what they already volunteered to do (except, I believe, they now have to
> pay for return shipping). See
> http://www.pcstats.com/NewsView.cfm?NewsID=40744 and
> http://snipurl.com/ggroups_abit_caps. For opening up about the problem
> and graciously helping their customers, their reward was to get slapped
> in the face. But they don't do that again and instead will let follow
> the lead from the other mobo makers: screw the customers that sue even
> when you go beyond what all other mobo makers are doing. Obviously if
> you send them a mobo that does not have bad capacitors means they will
> return the motherboard and charge you for shipping (both ways) because
> you wasted their time for non-warranty service.
>
> So what makes you believe the electryolytic capacitors are at fault?
> You could use an oscilloscope to look at the voltage levels and also
> check for the amount of ripple on each voltage line across the caps. If
> the caps aren't bulging (on the normally flat top) or leaking out (which
> looks like a black stain) then my guess is that you read something and
> incorrectly associate that problem with whatever is your problem.
>
> Is you PC unstable when it just sits there after the POST but you do NOT
> load Windows (or any other operating system)? Is it unstable when you
> use a bootable floppy to go into MS-DOS? Is it unstable when you boot
> into Recovery Console mode? Is it unstable if you boot using a bootable
> CD that loads a different operating system? And just WHAT do you mean
> by unstable? Hell, that could be because you used an underpowered power
> supply, or got a cheapie that can't manage to put out more than 75% of
> its bogus rated output, or you have added lots more drives and other
> internal devices and simply loaded the power supply beyond the original
> configuration for the box. Maybe you have a virus, like the one that
> forces a shutdown. Maybe you installed software that is generating a
> BSOD (blue screen of death). Maybe you installed a crappy device driver
> or the wrong one (i.e., not for the operating system that you use).
>
> Saying it is unstable is like going to the car shop and saying, "It's
> broke." Extremely vague.

I didn't say 'Its unstable', I exactly said 'Even on 1.85V is my Duron
1300 producing faults at Prime95...' - it is not overheating, at most 70C
(at this voltage).
The PSU is a 400W Fortron.
I think, there should be seen at http://www.volny.cz/smatt/caps/P3180010.JPG
how bad it is...
Well , the MB is some 7 zears old, but I have some 486 working for over 15
years...

Zdenek Sojka

It is not clear that the material is electrolyte. When
manufacturing these boards, a sticky substance is applied
beneath capacitor so that vibration does not jar that
electrolytic off motherboard during wave soldering. Is that
electrolyte or the glue? They look similar.

Zdenek Sojka wrote:
> Aha, thanks, it seems that the photo P3180010.JPG exactly shows
> electrolyte has flown from capacitors. Too bad news ;-(
> On the site is also a note about KT7 that it is one of the worst MBs...
> The 'kit' would cost about $30 and without chance of shipping ...
> anyway, changing only 10 caps would not be so expensive - I can buy
> it in my city. But if I did any mistake while soldering, the MB would
> go dead anyway. Nowadays, with SocketA MB prices at ~ $40 its a
> better way to buy a new one (after this fails totally, buy a new one)

A number of the tops of the green caps in the pictures are clearly
bulging, they're bad. In addition, these are the EXACT same caps
(brand) which were bad in my gateway. Not unusual for them to function
well enough for a period while in this state, especially after they have
"warmed up". Had the same thing with caps in the capstan drive servo
system of a high-end cassette deck I used to own.

Dan

w_tom wrote:
> It is not clear that the material is electrolyte. When
> manufacturing these boards, a sticky substance is applied
> beneath capacitor so that vibration does not jar that
> electrolytic off motherboard during wave soldering. Is that
> electrolyte or the glue? They look similar.
>
> Zdenek Sojka wrote:
>
>>Aha, thanks, it seems that the photo P3180010.JPG exactly shows
>>electrolyte has flown from capacitors. Too bad news ;-(
>>On the site is also a note about KT7 that it is one of the worst MBs...
>>The 'kit' would cost about $30 and without chance of shipping ...
>>anyway, changing only 10 caps would not be so expensive - I can buy
>>it in my city. But if I did any mistake while soldering, the MB would
>>go dead anyway. Nowadays, with SocketA MB prices at ~ $40 its a
>>better way to buy a new one (after this fails totally, buy a new one)