in both the free and the pro versions
the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a reboot
One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work correctly on
their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find this
happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and find the
avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will uninstall 8.0
and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
installation. Just follow the instructions.
As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but if you
find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website and
uninstall the 8.0 version

robin

just to add cause I spelled it incorrectly
you need to look in the antivir folder not the Avira folder
robin

"robinb" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> in both the free and the pro versions
> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a reboot
> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work correctly
> on their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find
> this happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and
> find the avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will
> uninstall 8.0 and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the
> new installation. Just follow the instructions.
> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but if you
> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website and
> uninstall the 8.0 version
>
> robin

robinb wrote:
> in both the free and the pro versions
> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a reboot
> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work correctly on
> their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find this
> happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and find the
> avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will uninstall 8.0
> and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
> installation. Just follow the instructions.
> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but if you
> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website and
> uninstall the 8.0 version

All you needed to know but were afraid to ask <wink>...
<http://forum.avira.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=750858#post750858>


--
Randy
<http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/default.aspx>

only it is a pita to upgrade
I do not like the way this program is doing its upgrade and you can read
what I said on their forum and also on wilder security forums - in other
antivirus programs
robin

"Randy Knobloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:#Tbw1E#(E-Mail Removed)...
> robinb wrote:
>> in both the free and the pro versions
>> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a reboot
>> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work correctly
>> on
>> their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find
>> this
>> happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and find
>> the
>> avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will uninstall
>> 8.0
>> and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
>> installation. Just follow the instructions.
>> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but if
>> you
>> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website and
>> uninstall the 8.0 version
>
> All you needed to know but were afraid to ask <wink>...
> <http://forum.avira.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=750858#post750858>
>
>
> --
> Randy
> <http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/default.aspx>
>
>

My frustration on the lousy upgrade process of Avira
At least AVG's upgrade process is must less painful
and I believe they finally got it right in this 8.5 because I am beginning
to get my confidence back in AVG now that they fixed this program and it
runs much more smoothly than when they first came out with 8.0

1. When a major upgrade is done to most antivirus programs, those who own
the paid versions receive an email in the mail telling them about the
upgrade and how to do it.
None of my clients received anything like this from Avira so how are they
suppose to know something is coming and I can assume they do not have only 2
clients or they would be out of business :P

2. Other Antivirus/antispyware, or any other type of any upgrade to a
software program- you will see a constant popup (reboot or not) in your face
every few hours until either you change the settings in that program or do
the upgrade. Again not everyone shuts down or reboots their computers
daily. I have 10 computers in this office. 6of them are on 24/7 and once a
week get a reboot to clear out the memory. Once a month they are shut off
to clean the office. They do not like being turned on and off and they are
very happy this way and they have been like this for their 3-4yrs of their
lives. 4 of them got used to be shutting off in the evening and turned on
in the morning. Now if I had Avira on the 6 of them how the heck would they
get this upgrade? I do not have 6 bodies in front of these computers all
the time- this is a 2 person office.

3. I have AVG antivirus on some of my computers, pro and free versions. I
always get an email from AVG for my pro product when there is a major
upgrade. And if for some reason i accidentally delete it, the pro version
automatically does the upgrade and sits there with a red mark in it and pops
up with a message telling me I need to reboot the computer to finish the
process.

4. When HP Printer needs an upgrade (and i normally change the settings not
to remind me) it pops up in your face and annoys the "blithers" out of you
until you do it like most software programs do. Microsoft Security updates
put a yellow shield up to tell you there are updates and yes you have the
option to change the settings to suite your needs but you are still notified
that there are updates.

5. Avira seems to only do it once in a blue moon (none of my 2 clients ever
saw anything popup or alert them) and they shut down their computers every
night and turn it on in the morning- and yes I checked the version and it
still said version 8) and worse if you do not reboot your computer because
you normally do not do it at least once a week you will be sitting there
with a crippled antivirus program and have no idea why because it will not
tell you a darn thing until you finally reboot your computer- now that
sucks!


If you make it so hard to upgrade a version I am betting they will loose a
whole lot of faithful users.
Just look at this forum of posts on upgrading- I can count at least 20 posts
here of users that are so frustrated over the upgrading of this program. An
upgrade should go smooth and easy if the program is scripted to upgrade
correctly-this should not be hard for you guys to figure out so that is
painless and easy for everyone. yes you will get the occasional program
when upgrading but i cannot believe the amount of posts here just on this
topic alone, versions not changing to 9, upgrading crashing in the middle,
upgrading not happening- go look at all the posts on here just for today and
yesterday - avira update fails, V9 install fails, upgrade problems to 9,
etc etc.

robin



"robinb" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> only it is a pita to upgrade
> I do not like the way this program is doing its upgrade and you can read
> what I said on their forum and also on wilder security forums - in other
> antivirus programs
> robin
>
> "Randy Knobloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:#Tbw1E#(E-Mail Removed)...
>> robinb wrote:
>>> in both the free and the pro versions
>>> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a reboot
>>> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work correctly
>>> on
>>> their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find
>>> this
>>> happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and find
>>> the
>>> avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will uninstall
>>> 8.0
>>> and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
>>> installation. Just follow the instructions.
>>> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but if
>>> you
>>> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website
>>> and
>>> uninstall the 8.0 version
>>
>> All you needed to know but were afraid to ask <wink>...
>> <http://forum.avira.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=750858#post750858>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Randy
>> <http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/default.aspx>
>>
>>

Robon...I had AVG as did my husband, but when Snet made some kind of upgrade
last year, AVG just wouldn't work. I finally got disgusted and switched to
Avast, so far...so good.

When it updates a new virus, sometimes twice a day, a little blue box pops
up and tells you..yes, it speaks to you. LOL A friend told me about Avast, as
he had run both AVG and Avira and had little luck with both upgrading
properly.

Maybe it is time some folks switch if it is such a pain. JMHO JJ





"robinb" wrote:

> My frustration on the lousy upgrade process of Avira
> At least AVG's upgrade process is must less painful
> and I believe they finally got it right in this 8.5 because I am beginning
> to get my confidence back in AVG now that they fixed this program and it
> runs much more smoothly than when they first came out with 8.0
>
> 1. When a major upgrade is done to most antivirus programs, those who own
> the paid versions receive an email in the mail telling them about the
> upgrade and how to do it.
> None of my clients received anything like this from Avira so how are they
> suppose to know something is coming and I can assume they do not have only 2
> clients or they would be out of business :P
>
> 2. Other Antivirus/antispyware, or any other type of any upgrade to a
> software program- you will see a constant popup (reboot or not) in your face
> every few hours until either you change the settings in that program or do
> the upgrade. Again not everyone shuts down or reboots their computers
> daily. I have 10 computers in this office. 6of them are on 24/7 and once a
> week get a reboot to clear out the memory. Once a month they are shut off
> to clean the office. They do not like being turned on and off and they are
> very happy this way and they have been like this for their 3-4yrs of their
> lives. 4 of them got used to be shutting off in the evening and turned on
> in the morning. Now if I had Avira on the 6 of them how the heck would they
> get this upgrade? I do not have 6 bodies in front of these computers all
> the time- this is a 2 person office.
>
> 3. I have AVG antivirus on some of my computers, pro and free versions. I
> always get an email from AVG for my pro product when there is a major
> upgrade. And if for some reason i accidentally delete it, the pro version
> automatically does the upgrade and sits there with a red mark in it and pops
> up with a message telling me I need to reboot the computer to finish the
> process.
>
> 4. When HP Printer needs an upgrade (and i normally change the settings not
> to remind me) it pops up in your face and annoys the "blithers" out of you
> until you do it like most software programs do. Microsoft Security updates
> put a yellow shield up to tell you there are updates and yes you have the
> option to change the settings to suite your needs but you are still notified
> that there are updates.
>
> 5. Avira seems to only do it once in a blue moon (none of my 2 clients ever
> saw anything popup or alert them) and they shut down their computers every
> night and turn it on in the morning- and yes I checked the version and it
> still said version 8) and worse if you do not reboot your computer because
> you normally do not do it at least once a week you will be sitting there
> with a crippled antivirus program and have no idea why because it will not
> tell you a darn thing until you finally reboot your computer- now that
> sucks!
>
>
> If you make it so hard to upgrade a version I am betting they will loose a
> whole lot of faithful users.
> Just look at this forum of posts on upgrading- I can count at least 20 posts
> here of users that are so frustrated over the upgrading of this program. An
> upgrade should go smooth and easy if the program is scripted to upgrade
> correctly-this should not be hard for you guys to figure out so that is
> painless and easy for everyone. yes you will get the occasional program
> when upgrading but i cannot believe the amount of posts here just on this
> topic alone, versions not changing to 9, upgrading crashing in the middle,
> upgrading not happening- go look at all the posts on here just for today and
> yesterday - avira update fails, V9 install fails, upgrade problems to 9,
> etc etc.
>
> robin
>
>
>
> "robinb" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > only it is a pita to upgrade
> > I do not like the way this program is doing its upgrade and you can read
> > what I said on their forum and also on wilder security forums - in other
> > antivirus programs
> > robin
> >
> > "Randy Knobloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:#Tbw1E#(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> robinb wrote:
> >>> in both the free and the pro versions
> >>> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a reboot
> >>> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work correctly
> >>> on
> >>> their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find
> >>> this
> >>> happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and find
> >>> the
> >>> avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will uninstall
> >>> 8.0
> >>> and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
> >>> installation. Just follow the instructions.
> >>> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but if
> >>> you
> >>> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website
> >>> and
> >>> uninstall the 8.0 version
> >>
> >> All you needed to know but were afraid to ask <wink>...
> >> <http://forum.avira.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=750858#post750858>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Randy
> >> <http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/default.aspx>
> >>
> >>
>

you know if Avast had real time scheduled scanning I probably would think
about it
but none of my clients are going to do a scan on their own so they will
never know if they have a virus or trojan unless they stumble on one.
I like the avira product, I just do not like how it upgraded.
I am still having no issues with AVG but some of my clients were so I had no
choice but to switch them to avira because it has the real time and
scheduled scanning.
robin

"JJ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:5DC60CC0-251A-477B-A3CD-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Robon...I had AVG as did my husband, but when Snet made some kind of
> upgrade
> last year, AVG just wouldn't work. I finally got disgusted and switched to
> Avast, so far...so good.
>
> When it updates a new virus, sometimes twice a day, a little blue box pops
> up and tells you..yes, it speaks to you. LOL A friend told me about Avast,
> as
> he had run both AVG and Avira and had little luck with both upgrading
> properly.
>
> Maybe it is time some folks switch if it is such a pain. JMHO JJ
>
>
>
>
>
> "robinb" wrote:
>
>> My frustration on the lousy upgrade process of Avira
>> At least AVG's upgrade process is must less painful
>> and I believe they finally got it right in this 8.5 because I am
>> beginning
>> to get my confidence back in AVG now that they fixed this program and it
>> runs much more smoothly than when they first came out with 8.0
>>
>> 1. When a major upgrade is done to most antivirus programs, those who
>> own
>> the paid versions receive an email in the mail telling them about the
>> upgrade and how to do it.
>> None of my clients received anything like this from Avira so how are they
>> suppose to know something is coming and I can assume they do not have
>> only 2
>> clients or they would be out of business :P
>>
>> 2. Other Antivirus/antispyware, or any other type of any upgrade to a
>> software program- you will see a constant popup (reboot or not) in your
>> face
>> every few hours until either you change the settings in that program or
>> do
>> the upgrade. Again not everyone shuts down or reboots their computers
>> daily. I have 10 computers in this office. 6of them are on 24/7 and once
>> a
>> week get a reboot to clear out the memory. Once a month they are shut
>> off
>> to clean the office. They do not like being turned on and off and they
>> are
>> very happy this way and they have been like this for their 3-4yrs of
>> their
>> lives. 4 of them got used to be shutting off in the evening and turned
>> on
>> in the morning. Now if I had Avira on the 6 of them how the heck would
>> they
>> get this upgrade? I do not have 6 bodies in front of these computers
>> all
>> the time- this is a 2 person office.
>>
>> 3. I have AVG antivirus on some of my computers, pro and free versions.
>> I
>> always get an email from AVG for my pro product when there is a major
>> upgrade. And if for some reason i accidentally delete it, the pro version
>> automatically does the upgrade and sits there with a red mark in it and
>> pops
>> up with a message telling me I need to reboot the computer to finish the
>> process.
>>
>> 4. When HP Printer needs an upgrade (and i normally change the settings
>> not
>> to remind me) it pops up in your face and annoys the "blithers" out of
>> you
>> until you do it like most software programs do. Microsoft Security
>> updates
>> put a yellow shield up to tell you there are updates and yes you have the
>> option to change the settings to suite your needs but you are still
>> notified
>> that there are updates.
>>
>> 5. Avira seems to only do it once in a blue moon (none of my 2 clients
>> ever
>> saw anything popup or alert them) and they shut down their computers
>> every
>> night and turn it on in the morning- and yes I checked the version and it
>> still said version 8) and worse if you do not reboot your computer
>> because
>> you normally do not do it at least once a week you will be sitting there
>> with a crippled antivirus program and have no idea why because it will
>> not
>> tell you a darn thing until you finally reboot your computer- now that
>> sucks!
>>
>>
>> If you make it so hard to upgrade a version I am betting they will loose
>> a
>> whole lot of faithful users.
>> Just look at this forum of posts on upgrading- I can count at least 20
>> posts
>> here of users that are so frustrated over the upgrading of this program.
>> An
>> upgrade should go smooth and easy if the program is scripted to upgrade
>> correctly-this should not be hard for you guys to figure out so that is
>> painless and easy for everyone. yes you will get the occasional program
>> when upgrading but i cannot believe the amount of posts here just on this
>> topic alone, versions not changing to 9, upgrading crashing in the
>> middle,
>> upgrading not happening- go look at all the posts on here just for today
>> and
>> yesterday - avira update fails, V9 install fails, upgrade problems to 9,
>> etc etc.
>>
>> robin
>>
>>
>>
>> "robinb" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > only it is a pita to upgrade
>> > I do not like the way this program is doing its upgrade and you can
>> > read
>> > what I said on their forum and also on wilder security forums - in
>> > other
>> > antivirus programs
>> > robin
>> >
>> > "Randy Knobloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:#Tbw1E#(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> robinb wrote:
>> >>> in both the free and the pro versions
>> >>> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a
>> >>> reboot
>> >>> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work
>> >>> correctly
>> >>> on
>> >>> their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find
>> >>> this
>> >>> happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and
>> >>> find
>> >>> the
>> >>> avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will
>> >>> uninstall
>> >>> 8.0
>> >>> and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
>> >>> installation. Just follow the instructions.
>> >>> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but
>> >>> if
>> >>> you
>> >>> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website
>> >>> and
>> >>> uninstall the 8.0 version
>> >>
>> >> All you needed to know but were afraid to ask <wink>...
>> >> <http://forum.avira.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=750858#post750858>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Randy
>> >> <http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/default.aspx>
>> >>
>> >>
>>

That is a feature that Avast should put on theirs, but I don't mind doing it
manually. I just do it on a sat. morning while I am doing chores, it only
takes me about 55 minutes, so no big deal.

Have no idea what in God's name Snet/ATT did, but man, it messed up AVG
something fierce on me, as it did some friends. Oh well, you have a good one,
and sorry for misspelling your name, didn't even notice it till now. :-) JJ



"robinb" wrote:

> you know if Avast had real time scheduled scanning I probably would think
> about it
> but none of my clients are going to do a scan on their own so they will
> never know if they have a virus or trojan unless they stumble on one.
> I like the avira product, I just do not like how it upgraded.
> I am still having no issues with AVG but some of my clients were so I had no
> choice but to switch them to avira because it has the real time and
> scheduled scanning.
> robin
>
> "JJ" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:5DC60CC0-251A-477B-A3CD-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Robon...I had AVG as did my husband, but when Snet made some kind of
> > upgrade
> > last year, AVG just wouldn't work. I finally got disgusted and switched to
> > Avast, so far...so good.
> >
> > When it updates a new virus, sometimes twice a day, a little blue box pops
> > up and tells you..yes, it speaks to you. LOL A friend told me about Avast,
> > as
> > he had run both AVG and Avira and had little luck with both upgrading
> > properly.
> >
> > Maybe it is time some folks switch if it is such a pain. JMHO JJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "robinb" wrote:
> >
> >> My frustration on the lousy upgrade process of Avira
> >> At least AVG's upgrade process is must less painful
> >> and I believe they finally got it right in this 8.5 because I am
> >> beginning
> >> to get my confidence back in AVG now that they fixed this program and it
> >> runs much more smoothly than when they first came out with 8.0
> >>
> >> 1. When a major upgrade is done to most antivirus programs, those who
> >> own
> >> the paid versions receive an email in the mail telling them about the
> >> upgrade and how to do it.
> >> None of my clients received anything like this from Avira so how are they
> >> suppose to know something is coming and I can assume they do not have
> >> only 2
> >> clients or they would be out of business :P
> >>
> >> 2. Other Antivirus/antispyware, or any other type of any upgrade to a
> >> software program- you will see a constant popup (reboot or not) in your
> >> face
> >> every few hours until either you change the settings in that program or
> >> do
> >> the upgrade. Again not everyone shuts down or reboots their computers
> >> daily. I have 10 computers in this office. 6of them are on 24/7 and once
> >> a
> >> week get a reboot to clear out the memory. Once a month they are shut
> >> off
> >> to clean the office. They do not like being turned on and off and they
> >> are
> >> very happy this way and they have been like this for their 3-4yrs of
> >> their
> >> lives. 4 of them got used to be shutting off in the evening and turned
> >> on
> >> in the morning. Now if I had Avira on the 6 of them how the heck would
> >> they
> >> get this upgrade? I do not have 6 bodies in front of these computers
> >> all
> >> the time- this is a 2 person office.
> >>
> >> 3. I have AVG antivirus on some of my computers, pro and free versions.
> >> I
> >> always get an email from AVG for my pro product when there is a major
> >> upgrade. And if for some reason i accidentally delete it, the pro version
> >> automatically does the upgrade and sits there with a red mark in it and
> >> pops
> >> up with a message telling me I need to reboot the computer to finish the
> >> process.
> >>
> >> 4. When HP Printer needs an upgrade (and i normally change the settings
> >> not
> >> to remind me) it pops up in your face and annoys the "blithers" out of
> >> you
> >> until you do it like most software programs do. Microsoft Security
> >> updates
> >> put a yellow shield up to tell you there are updates and yes you have the
> >> option to change the settings to suite your needs but you are still
> >> notified
> >> that there are updates.
> >>
> >> 5. Avira seems to only do it once in a blue moon (none of my 2 clients
> >> ever
> >> saw anything popup or alert them) and they shut down their computers
> >> every
> >> night and turn it on in the morning- and yes I checked the version and it
> >> still said version 8) and worse if you do not reboot your computer
> >> because
> >> you normally do not do it at least once a week you will be sitting there
> >> with a crippled antivirus program and have no idea why because it will
> >> not
> >> tell you a darn thing until you finally reboot your computer- now that
> >> sucks!
> >>
> >>
> >> If you make it so hard to upgrade a version I am betting they will loose
> >> a
> >> whole lot of faithful users.
> >> Just look at this forum of posts on upgrading- I can count at least 20
> >> posts
> >> here of users that are so frustrated over the upgrading of this program.
> >> An
> >> upgrade should go smooth and easy if the program is scripted to upgrade
> >> correctly-this should not be hard for you guys to figure out so that is
> >> painless and easy for everyone. yes you will get the occasional program
> >> when upgrading but i cannot believe the amount of posts here just on this
> >> topic alone, versions not changing to 9, upgrading crashing in the
> >> middle,
> >> upgrading not happening- go look at all the posts on here just for today
> >> and
> >> yesterday - avira update fails, V9 install fails, upgrade problems to 9,
> >> etc etc.
> >>
> >> robin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "robinb" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> > only it is a pita to upgrade
> >> > I do not like the way this program is doing its upgrade and you can
> >> > read
> >> > what I said on their forum and also on wilder security forums - in
> >> > other
> >> > antivirus programs
> >> > robin
> >> >
> >> > "Randy Knobloch" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >> > news:#Tbw1E#(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> >> robinb wrote:
> >> >>> in both the free and the pro versions
> >> >>> the pro version is suppose to upgrade itself and will require a
> >> >>> reboot
> >> >>> One of my clients have the pro because AVG just would not work
> >> >>> correctly
> >> >>> on
> >> >>> their computer and for some reason it would not upgrade. If you find
> >> >>> this
> >> >>> happens to you- go to Program Files. Look for the Avira folder and
> >> >>> find
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> avnetworkloader.exe application. Double click it and it will
> >> >>> uninstall
> >> >>> 8.0
> >> >>> and install 9.0. A reboot will be required to do finish the new
> >> >>> installation. Just follow the instructions.
> >> >>> As for the free- they claim it is also suppose to update itself but
> >> >>> if
> >> >>> you
> >> >>> find it is not doing it just pick up the new version at their website
> >> >>> and
> >> >>> uninstall the 8.0 version
> >> >>
> >> >> All you needed to know but were afraid to ask <wink>...
> >> >> <http://forum.avira.com/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=750858#post750858>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Randy
> >> >> <http://msmvps.com/blogs/siljaline/default.aspx>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>