Folks

Hows that for an attention grabbing subject? Although I'm serious.
I've put a lot of work into the utility. Thousands of hours. I've
tried to make money using voluntary donations, voluntary licensing and
now the Enterprise Edition. I figure I'm up to about $1 per hour.
Maybe.

So I'm seriously considering making the Auto FE Updater so it will
work for the first 15 days no problem. After that for the next 15
days every time the developer starts it they get a nag screen and they
click Ok. Every time the user starts it an "Unlicensed screen"
which they have to click OK or wait 5 seconds. After 30 days they
will have to wait 5 seconds before they can continue.

Yes, I've posted many times that it's free. And now it isn't. I will
be criticized for this decision.

I would geusstimate that 0.05%, yes, that's one in two thousand, of
the downloaders have made some kind of financial renumeration. So if
I get only 5% of the downloads but I get paid for those then I can
keep on making lots of feature enhancements.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

On Oct 21, 8:11*am, Tony Toews <tto...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> Folks
>
> Hows that for an attention grabbing subject?

Hi Tony. What licence fee will be applicable to a developer who
distributes the Updater to lots of clients?

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 03:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Wayne
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Hows that for an attention grabbing subject?
>
>Hi Tony. What licence fee will be applicable to a developer who
>distributes the Updater to lots of clients?

I will be creating an ISV (reseller) version which will include the
ability to download updates from the ISV websites as a zip file,
unzip and copy the updated files(s). All of which can be intiated by
one line of code from within the users Access application.* Obviously
you the developer will want to restrict this to just the power users
of your app.

Now if there are schema changes required for the backend database then
that gets a bit tricker. But the Auto FE Updater now knows if
someone is in the backend so a screen could be displayed for the power
user showing who is in the backend so everyone can exit and then the
Auto FE Updater will continue to deploy the new FE.

Of course you the developer will have to have code to update the
tables, fields, relationships and indexes. I'm reasonably happy with
Compare'Em
http://home.gci.net/~mike-noel/Compa...reEM-About.htm.
Although it does have it's quirks and I don't think it supports
ACCDBs.

I'm thinking a price would be $100 per client. But maybe that's a
bit high. I'm not quite sure on this. Maybe a graduated pricing
policy.

However I think there are some Access developers who are selling their
program for $50 as it is for personal use rather than corporate use.
So I'm quite willing to be flexible in that situation.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:57:02 -0600, Tony Toews
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 03:41:29 -0700 (PDT), Wayne
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> Hows that for an attention grabbing subject?
>>
>>Hi Tony. What licence fee will be applicable to a developer who
>>distributes the Updater to lots of clients?

>I'm thinking a price would be $100 per client. But maybe that's a
>bit high. I'm not quite sure on this. Maybe a graduated pricing
>policy.

I realized that this is not at all practical. This would require me
being notified for each new client. And if I was to create a license
file for each new client this would mean you'd have to tell me thier
name. And I don't want to deal with that kind of administrivia.
Furthermore, understandably, you don't want me to know your client
names.

So a flat fee of some sort. But what is reasonable? Or do I have
some kind of percentage based system and trust that you the developers
will tell me the number of clients? No, you wouldn't want to even
tell me that. Also quite understandable.

So no a flat fee of some sort I guess. What do you think is
reasonable?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

Tony Toews <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> I would geusstimate that 0.05%, yes, that's one in two thousand,
> of the downloaders have made some kind of financial renumeration.
> So if I get only 5% of the downloads but I get paid for those
> then I can keep on making lots of feature enhancements.

Well, for what it's worth, I won't use it in that case, and won't
have my clients purchase it, either. In most cases where I've
implemented it, it's been where there was no upgrade management
installed. Where I haven't used it, I have something else in place
that I've written myself (usually batch files), so that means
instead of the easy route of using your utility, I'll simply make a
one-time effort to enhance some vbScripts to do the job.

I know you've put a lot of effort into it, but most of the work
you've done is not needed for the clients I've got (no Citrix, not
even any workgroup file). I've only needed one of your "advanced"
features in one setting, and that's not in production use any
longer.

I feel terrible that I wouldn't be supporting you, but I can't see
why I shouldn't earn the money for myself rather than passing it off
to you.

Secondly, I'd still be first-line support, and it's easier for me to
do that with something I've written myself.

I worry that you won't make any more than you're making now, Tony,
and all you've done is deprived yourself of a bunch of free quality
assurance testers.

--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
contact via website only http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/

On 21 Oct 2010 23:12:03 GMT, "David-W-Fenton"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Well, for what it's worth, I won't use it in that case, and won't
>have my clients purchase it, either.

Reasonable enough.

>I worry that you won't make any more than you're making now, Tony,

Yes, that's quite possible. In which case work on the utility will
slow to a crawl, rather than than the 7,000 lines of code I've added
since January.

>and all you've done is deprived yourself of a bunch of free quality
>assurance testers.

True but if folks are paying for the utility then they will be even
more motivated to give me feedback.

Your points are quite valid.

You will always be able to use the current version 3.14 for free. I
may remove it from my website as I usually do with the second oldest
version as I put out new versions.

Tony

--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:27:45 -0700, Salad <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>When you updated your AutoFE (maybe a year or less ago) it became
>simplicity itself. Prior to that it took a few hours to set it up
>correctly (at least so it worked for me). Now a few minutes. It was a
>major improvement.

Thanks. The wizard and the update form make a huge difference in ease
of use.

>Any application that I write in the future I will ask the client to
>spring for it, especially those that require frequent updates.
>
>It is a quality product, easy to use, and I applaud your effort. You
>should be compensated for it.

Thanks for your kind words.

>You were musing on pricing. Perhaps 2 types; professional (developer)
>and single site (user). A professional for someone that can distribute
>to unlimited companies, user for one company's use. What's a fair
>price? Only you know. Maybe $200 for Professional, $25-50 for an end
>user client. (USD). You want a price that people won't balk at as a
>sale is better than a window shopper.

I was just trying to come up with the name for the version to be used
by outside programmers. My working name was ISV but I didn't like
that. Professional sounds better and I might use it. Developer
wasn't quite descriptive enough.

>Can AutoFE be expanded to other programs? i don't know.

Yes. That's one reason why I added the Start Method = Display File
Count Message. This way it doesn't actually start a program such as
Access, Excel, Word, whatever. It just states "All files are up to
date" or "x files copied".

I also own the www.autofileupdater.com domain. <smile>

>Does FileMaker
>or other database programs require easy distrubution as well?

Apparently FileMaker has the capabliity built ni.

>Maybe
>other developers here know of other programs that require easy
>distribution. Would an IT department that distributes apps to new
>end-users need something like this?

Awaiting suggestions. <smile>

>Maybe a site like Tucows or similar would be good distribution site as well.

I need to add some more features first such as copying subfolders.
But yes, I'll be thinking about that when I get there.

>Job well done.

Thanks.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/

"Tony Toews" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 20:27:45 -0700, Salad <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>When you updated your AutoFE (maybe a year or less ago) it became
>>simplicity itself. Prior to that it took a few hours to set it up
>>correctly (at least so it worked for me). Now a few minutes. It was
>>a
>>major improvement.
>
> Thanks. The wizard and the update form make a huge difference in ease
> of use.
>
>>Any application that I write in the future I will ask the client to
>>spring for it, especially those that require frequent updates.
>>
>>It is a quality product, easy to use, and I applaud your effort. You
>>should be compensated for it.
>
> Thanks for your kind words.
>
>>You were musing on pricing. Perhaps 2 types; professional (developer)
>>and single site (user). A professional for someone that can
>>distribute
>>to unlimited companies, user for one company's use. What's a fair
>>price? Only you know. Maybe $200 for Professional, $25-50 for an end
>>user client. (USD). You want a price that people won't balk at as a
>>sale is better than a window shopper.
>
> I was just trying to come up with the name for the version to be used
> by outside programmers. My working name was ISV but I didn't like
> that. Professional sounds better and I might use it. Developer
> wasn't quite descriptive enough.
>
>>Can AutoFE be expanded to other programs? i don't know.
>
> Yes. That's one reason why I added the Start Method = Display File
> Count Message. This way it doesn't actually start a program such as
> Access, Excel, Word, whatever. It just states "All files are up to
> date" or "x files copied".
>
> I also own the www.autofileupdater.com domain. <smile>
>


I have used AutoFEUpdater to distribute Excel AddIns. The flexibility
Tony has built in is incredible. Not only can you use AutoFEUpdater to
copy only; it can be used to launch an "unrelated" process ... script,
exe, whatever.

--
Clif McIrvin

(clare reads his mail with moe, nomail finds the bit bucket)

Tony, your work is brilliant, and I see no reason you can't charge for
it.

Careful of your stats. Some large percentage of downloads probably
never get implemented, so their payment of a fee would not be
appropriate.

Having said that, I haven't paid you, but I had planned when moving to
the next version to license your Professional version. I'll bill it to
my client "under the covers".

Take a look at VBAGlobalErrorHandler for an example of a pretty well-
thought-out licensing structure. Its still relies on some trust, but I
think it's worked out for me and my client.

Jim

On Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:33:21 -0700 (PDT), Cheryl
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Tony, your work is brilliant, and I see no reason you can't charge for
>it.
>
>Careful of your stats. Some large percentage of downloads probably
>never get implemented, so their payment of a fee would not be
>appropriate.

True enough.

>Having said that, I haven't paid you, but I had planned when moving to
>the next version to license your Professional version. I'll bill it to
>my client "under the covers".
>
>Take a look at VBAGlobalErrorHandler for an example of a pretty well-
>thought-out licensing structure. Its still relies on some trust, but I
>think it's worked out for me and my client.

So you're thinking of the page at
http://www.everythingaccess.com/vbwatchdog_purchase.htm ?

Yes, I have no problem with such a system. Indeed I'm doing
something similar when I ask you to indicate how many servers you are
using the Auto FE Updater on.

But could you be a bit more specific in your thoughts? Do you mean by
number of users of the utility? If you are a outside contractor the
number of clients? Total number of users among all the clients?

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/