On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:46:40 GMT, "JAD" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>yeah hmm hmm sure...... GTA3 remembering.... ? remember PONG? when computers first hit the home, games have always been a
>major part of home computing..... I don't think your life experience goes back far enough...
>

Please count me in, my all time favorite is Lode Runner on the Atari 800 on 5
1/4 floppy, protected, had to hack it so i could add lives

second choice was Montezuma's Revenge ( i had a map of that piramyd on the
wall ) hand made to keep track of all the rooms I had been in.

a tough 3rd choice was Miner49ner and the sequel miner 2049 on bank switched
cardtridge

I had the original pong but i tired of it in a month.

I guess Pacman and all the other Atari cart's are there too.






>
>"Manu T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:3f9229bf$0$1110$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> There are several factors.
>>
>> First a PC was NEVER designed to play games. Smooth scrolling is a vital
>> part of Playstation or Ninento machines. Hell, even a old 8-bit Sega master
>> system had smooth scrolling landscapes in racegames etc... The X-Box suffer
>> from the same jerkiness as a regular PC in this respect. It's not that PC's
>> allways behave jerky. They don't, for example the old GTA3-game (everybody
>> remmembers that, don't they?) only starts to jerk when cornering streets.
>> But straight line racings DOES go smooth???
>>
>> Many programmers (e.g. Codemasters) can't program. I mean with this that it
>> seems very difficult to generate a smooth scrolling landscape or so on PC's
>> despite their suposedly awesome graphics-power. Also many programs eat way
>> too much cpu-cycles (again incompetent programming) than what they're
>> suposed to do (e.g. McCaffe virusscanners are noteworthy in this respect)
>>
>> Windows is quite crappy in the multitasking level. Though I haven't seen
>> much Lunix-games but it seems that cpu-power is much more leveled between
>> apps in Linux than on Windows.
>>
>> So I guess that if 'smooth' scrolling is a vital part of your gaming
>> experience and you don't mind being less able to find pirated software (the
>> mean reason why Windows PC's are so popular) then you should buy a console.
>> Because for most of these games it doesn't give a **** if you've got the
>> latest PC with all the bells and whistles. Just play GT3 or Colin McRea
>> Rally 2 (yep those old buggers) on the latest DX-whatever, Pentium whatever,
>> Radeon 1000XTPRo SE whatever. These games STILL stutter despite the increase
>> in both gfx-power and cpu-power over the last couple of years. Keeps you
>> wondering what the truth is behind these socalled 800MHz Front side busses?
>>
>> Where were the days when they could cramm everything in the 48KB of a ZX
>> Spectrum and STILL managed to get a smooth scroll?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Manu T
>>
>> "Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
>> news:yd6dnUSqxtW3hA2iRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > Bought at Best Buy, after all the rebates, reward zone points, preferred
>> > customer discount, etc...my cost was $184 + tax
>> >
>> > How-ever, the game occasionally stalls when playing vice city 3. How-ever,
>> > there may be other apps runningconcurrently, perhaps 2-3 browsers, outlook
>> > express and an excel spreadsheet.
>> >
>> > Furthermore, Norton AV is running in the background.
>> >
>> > Is the occasional "stutterting" normal? Am I pushing it too far, or is it
>> > the card?
>> >
>> > All 3D benchmark tests came back normal, and I am running a P4 2.4 800 mhz
>> > cpu, with a 800 mhz MSI mb and 512 mb 400 kingston ddr ram, on a LCD
>> screen.
>> >
>> > Any input please?
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>

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I worked for Computer consulting firm as a Sys Admin for two years and was
surprised at the specs on most of their servers, or the ones they managed
for their clients. They were definitely not cutting edge in terms of speed
and power because the purchase of servers is a business decision involving
millions of dollars for large corporations where bang for the buck is always
examined closely. Speed wasn't nearly as important as reliability and
storage capacity as well as the quality of the components that shunted the
data around the network. Servers don't really work that hard. One client
was still running two servers with 486 CPU's and using Windows for
Workgroups. Their other servers were Pentiums running an older version of
Novell Netware. When they upgraded their network in 2001 - 2002 they opted
for an upgraded version of Netware, no hardware upgrade for their servers,
and new Pentium 3 desktops throughout the enterprise running Windows 2000.
During quiet times we managed to play Quake 3 on the desktops, but they
couldn't handle much else. The desktops were all IBM....because they are
reliable and came with good support from IBM. They all had 128 megs of ram,
an ATI Rage video card and a 30 gig hard drive and will probably be used for
about ten years.

JK

"J.Clarke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:36:47 GMT
> "John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > I would agree that a PC was not "orginally" designed to play games,
> > but it's gaming that drives the technology today. You don't need a
> > fast bus, fast chipset, fast memory, a 3D graphics card like the 9800
> > pro, and 2 or 3 ghz of cpu power to run a spreadsheet or write an
> > email to Aunt Maude.
>
> You _do_ need the fast bus, fast chipset, fast memory, and 2-3 GHz of
> CPU power in a heavily used server managing a large database though.
>
> > The technology has evolved, and it has evolved
> > because of gaming and to suit gaming which is THE app that really
> > pushes a computer.
> >
> > On the guys stuttering problem, it is caused for sure by upgrading
> > from ME to XP, and not doing a clean install. I have upgraded every
> > OS from Windows 3.0 to XP and have never been happy with the results.
> > I always had to bite the bullet and do a clean install, and then try
> > to salvage whatever I could of my custom settings. But after the
> > clean install, my machine always ran like a rocket.
> >
> > JK
> >
> > "Manu T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:3f9229bf$0$1110$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > There are several factors.
> > >
> > > First a PC was NEVER designed to play games. Smooth scrolling is a
> > > vital part of Playstation or Ninento machines. Hell, even a old
> > > 8-bit Sega
> > master
> > > system had smooth scrolling landscapes in racegames etc... The X-Box
> > suffer
> > > from the same jerkiness as a regular PC in this respect. It's not
> > > that
> > PC's
> > > allways behave jerky. They don't, for example the old GTA3-game
> > > (everybody remmembers that, don't they?) only starts to jerk when
> > > cornering streets. But straight line racings DOES go smooth???
> > >
> > > Many programmers (e.g. Codemasters) can't program. I mean with this
> > > that
> > it
> > > seems very difficult to generate a smooth scrolling landscape or so
> > > on
> > PC's
> > > despite their suposedly awesome graphics-power. Also many programs
> > > eat way too much cpu-cycles (again incompetent programming) than
> > > what they're suposed to do (e.g. McCaffe virusscanners are
> > > noteworthy in this respect)
> > >
> > > Windows is quite crappy in the multitasking level. Though I haven't
> > > seen much Lunix-games but it seems that cpu-power is much more
> > > leveled between apps in Linux than on Windows.
> > >
> > > So I guess that if 'smooth' scrolling is a vital part of your gaming
> > > experience and you don't mind being less able to find pirated
> > > software
> > (the
> > > mean reason why Windows PC's are so popular) then you should buy a
> > console.
> > > Because for most of these games it doesn't give a **** if you've got
> > > the latest PC with all the bells and whistles. Just play GT3 or
> > > Colin McRea Rally 2 (yep those old buggers) on the latest
> > > DX-whatever, Pentium
> > whatever,
> > > Radeon 1000XTPRo SE whatever. These games STILL stutter despite the
> > increase
> > > in both gfx-power and cpu-power over the last couple of years. Keeps
> > > you wondering what the truth is behind these socalled 800MHz Front
> > > side
> > busses?
> > >
> > > Where were the days when they could cramm everything in the 48KB of
> > > a ZX Spectrum and STILL managed to get a smooth scroll?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Manu T
> > >
> > > "Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
> > > news:yd6dnUSqxtW3hA2iRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Bought at Best Buy, after all the rebates, reward zone points,
> > > > preferred customer discount, etc...my cost was $184 + tax
> > > >
> > > > How-ever, the game occasionally stalls when playing vice city 3.
> > How-ever,
> > > > there may be other apps runningconcurrently, perhaps 2-3 browsers,
> > outlook
> > > > express and an excel spreadsheet.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, Norton AV is running in the background.
> > > >
> > > > Is the occasional "stutterting" normal? Am I pushing it too far,
> > > > or is
> > it
> > > > the card?
> > > >
> > > > All 3D benchmark tests came back normal, and I am running a P4 2.4
> > > > 800
> > mhz
> > > > cpu, with a 800 mhz MSI mb and 512 mb 400 kingston ddr ram, on a
> > > > LCD
> > > screen.
> > > >
> > > > Any input please?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

John, for the most part you probably are correct.
I upgraded from Win2k to XP, Then I added the Radeon ATA 9800 (not Pro)
card.
I should had reformatted first with the Radeon card, then do a fresh install
of XP.
But as it goes with most home-built boxes, the construction process does not
always
take into consideration the impulsive buying possibilities at Best
Buy.....LOL!


Rev Marcus
----------------------



"John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:jPWkb.214664$ko%.(E-Mail Removed)...
> I would agree that a PC was not "orginally" designed to play games, but
it's
> gaming that drives the technology today. You don't need a fast bus, fast
> chipset, fast memory, a 3D graphics card like the 9800 pro, and 2 or 3 ghz
> of cpu power to run a spreadsheet or write an email to Aunt Maude. The
> technology has evolved, and it has evolved because of gaming and to suit
> gaming which is THE app that really pushes a computer.
>
> On the guys stuttering problem, it is caused for sure by upgrading from ME
> to XP, and not doing a clean install. I have upgraded every OS from
Windows
> 3.0 to XP and have never been happy with the results. I always had to
bite
> the bullet and do a clean install, and then try to salvage whatever I
could
> of my custom settings. But after the clean install, my machine always ran
> like a rocket.
>
> JK
>
> "Manu T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:3f9229bf$0$1110$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > There are several factors.
> >
> > First a PC was NEVER designed to play games. Smooth scrolling is a vital
> > part of Playstation or Ninento machines. Hell, even a old 8-bit Sega
> master
> > system had smooth scrolling landscapes in racegames etc... The X-Box
> suffer
> > from the same jerkiness as a regular PC in this respect. It's not that
> PC's
> > allways behave jerky. They don't, for example the old GTA3-game
(everybody
> > remmembers that, don't they?) only starts to jerk when cornering
streets.
> > But straight line racings DOES go smooth???
> >
> > Many programmers (e.g. Codemasters) can't program. I mean with this that
> it
> > seems very difficult to generate a smooth scrolling landscape or so on
> PC's
> > despite their suposedly awesome graphics-power. Also many programs eat
way
> > too much cpu-cycles (again incompetent programming) than what they're
> > suposed to do (e.g. McCaffe virusscanners are noteworthy in this
respect)
> >
> > Windows is quite crappy in the multitasking level. Though I haven't seen
> > much Lunix-games but it seems that cpu-power is much more leveled
between
> > apps in Linux than on Windows.
> >
> > So I guess that if 'smooth' scrolling is a vital part of your gaming
> > experience and you don't mind being less able to find pirated software
> (the
> > mean reason why Windows PC's are so popular) then you should buy a
> console.
> > Because for most of these games it doesn't give a **** if you've got the
> > latest PC with all the bells and whistles. Just play GT3 or Colin McRea
> > Rally 2 (yep those old buggers) on the latest DX-whatever, Pentium
> whatever,
> > Radeon 1000XTPRo SE whatever. These games STILL stutter despite the
> increase
> > in both gfx-power and cpu-power over the last couple of years. Keeps you
> > wondering what the truth is behind these socalled 800MHz Front side
> busses?
> >
> > Where were the days when they could cramm everything in the 48KB of a ZX
> > Spectrum and STILL managed to get a smooth scroll?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Manu T
> >
> > "Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
> > news:yd6dnUSqxtW3hA2iRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Bought at Best Buy, after all the rebates, reward zone points,
preferred
> > > customer discount, etc...my cost was $184 + tax
> > >
> > > How-ever, the game occasionally stalls when playing vice city 3.
> How-ever,
> > > there may be other apps runningconcurrently, perhaps 2-3 browsers,
> outlook
> > > express and an excel spreadsheet.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, Norton AV is running in the background.
> > >
> > > Is the occasional "stutterting" normal? Am I pushing it too far, or is
> it
> > > the card?
> > >
> > > All 3D benchmark tests came back normal, and I am running a P4 2.4 800
> mhz
> > > cpu, with a 800 mhz MSI mb and 512 mb 400 kingston ddr ram, on a LCD
> > screen.
> > >
> > > Any input please?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:30:02 GMT
"John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I worked for Computer consulting firm as a Sys Admin for two years and
> was surprised at the specs on most of their servers, or the ones they
> managed for their clients. They were definitely not cutting edge in
> terms of speed and power because the purchase of servers is a business
> decision involving millions of dollars for large corporations where
> bang for the buck is always examined closely. Speed wasn't nearly as
> important as reliability and storage capacity as well as the quality
> of the components that shunted the data around the network. Servers
> don't really work that hard. One client was still running two servers
> with 486 CPU's and using Windows for Workgroups. Their other servers
> were Pentiums running an older version of Novell Netware. When they
> upgraded their network in 2001 - 2002 they opted for an upgraded
> version of Netware, no hardware upgrade for their servers, and new
> Pentium 3 desktops throughout the enterprise running Windows 2000.
> During quiet times we managed to play Quake 3 on the desktops, but
> they couldn't handle much else. The desktops were all IBM....because
> they are reliable and came with good support from IBM. They all had
> 128 megs of ram, an ATI Rage video card and a 30 gig hard drive and
> will probably be used for about ten years.

Depends on what the server is used for. Some variants of the System/390
are positioned as servers. If it's departmental file and print then
no, you don't need much machine. If it's handling operations for a
large insurance company that might have 10,000 users sharing the same 3
terabyte database then you need quite a lot of machine, in fact you
need quite a lot of quite a lot of machines if you're doing it with
Intel-based servers.

If all servers were lightweight machines there would be no market for
the Xeon and Itanium.

> JK
>
> "J.Clarke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:36:47 GMT
> > "John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> > > I would agree that a PC was not "orginally" designed to play
> > > games, but it's gaming that drives the technology today. You
> > > don't need a fast bus, fast chipset, fast memory, a 3D graphics
> > > card like the 9800 pro, and 2 or 3 ghz of cpu power to run a
> > > spreadsheet or write an email to Aunt Maude.
> >
> > You _do_ need the fast bus, fast chipset, fast memory, and 2-3 GHz
> > of CPU power in a heavily used server managing a large database
> > though.
> >
> > > The technology has evolved, and it has evolved
> > > because of gaming and to suit gaming which is THE app that really
> > > pushes a computer.
> > >
> > > On the guys stuttering problem, it is caused for sure by upgrading
> > > from ME to XP, and not doing a clean install. I have upgraded
> > > every OS from Windows 3.0 to XP and have never been happy with the
> > > results. I always had to bite the bullet and do a clean install,
> > > and then try to salvage whatever I could of my custom settings.
> > > But after the clean install, my machine always ran like a rocket.
> > >
> > > JK
> > >
> > > "Manu T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:3f9229bf$0$1110$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > There are several factors.
> > > >
> > > > First a PC was NEVER designed to play games. Smooth scrolling is
> > > > a vital part of Playstation or Ninento machines. Hell, even a
> > > > old 8-bit Sega
> > > master
> > > > system had smooth scrolling landscapes in racegames etc... The
> > > > X-Box
> > > suffer
> > > > from the same jerkiness as a regular PC in this respect. It's
> > > > not that
> > > PC's
> > > > allways behave jerky. They don't, for example the old GTA3-game
> > > > (everybody remmembers that, don't they?) only starts to jerk
> > > > when cornering streets. But straight line racings DOES go
> > > > smooth???
> > > >
> > > > Many programmers (e.g. Codemasters) can't program. I mean with
> > > > this that
> > > it
> > > > seems very difficult to generate a smooth scrolling landscape or
> > > > so on
> > > PC's
> > > > despite their suposedly awesome graphics-power. Also many
> > > > programs eat way too much cpu-cycles (again incompetent
> > > > programming) than what they're suposed to do (e.g. McCaffe
> > > > virusscanners are noteworthy in this respect)
> > > >
> > > > Windows is quite crappy in the multitasking level. Though I
> > > > haven't seen much Lunix-games but it seems that cpu-power is
> > > > much more leveled between apps in Linux than on Windows.
> > > >
> > > > So I guess that if 'smooth' scrolling is a vital part of your
> > > > gaming experience and you don't mind being less able to find
> > > > pirated software
> > > (the
> > > > mean reason why Windows PC's are so popular) then you should buy
> > > > a
> > > console.
> > > > Because for most of these games it doesn't give a **** if you've
> > > > got the latest PC with all the bells and whistles. Just play GT3
> > > > or Colin McRea Rally 2 (yep those old buggers) on the latest
> > > > DX-whatever, Pentium
> > > whatever,
> > > > Radeon 1000XTPRo SE whatever. These games STILL stutter despite
> > > > the
> > > increase
> > > > in both gfx-power and cpu-power over the last couple of years.
> > > > Keeps you wondering what the truth is behind these socalled
> > > > 800MHz Front side
> > > busses?
> > > >
> > > > Where were the days when they could cramm everything in the 48KB
> > > > of a ZX Spectrum and STILL managed to get a smooth scroll?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Manu T
> > > >
> > > > "Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
> > > > news:yd6dnUSqxtW3hA2iRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > Bought at Best Buy, after all the rebates, reward zone points,
> > > > > preferred customer discount, etc...my cost was $184 + tax
> > > > >
> > > > > How-ever, the game occasionally stalls when playing vice city
> > > > > 3.
> > > How-ever,
> > > > > there may be other apps runningconcurrently, perhaps 2-3
> > > > > browsers,
> > > outlook
> > > > > express and an excel spreadsheet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Furthermore, Norton AV is running in the background.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the occasional "stutterting" normal? Am I pushing it too
> > > > > far, or is
> > > it
> > > > > the card?
> > > > >
> > > > > All 3D benchmark tests came back normal, and I am running a P4
> > > > > 2.4 800
> > > mhz
> > > > > cpu, with a 800 mhz MSI mb and 512 mb 400 kingston ddr ram, on
> > > > > a LCD
> > > > screen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any input please?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > --
> > --John
> > Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> > (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
>
>


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

True. The servers were file servers, and most computation occured at the
work station level. I think that is typical for most companies.

JK

"J.Clarke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 03:30:02 GMT
> "John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> > I worked for Computer consulting firm as a Sys Admin for two years and
> > was surprised at the specs on most of their servers, or the ones they
> > managed for their clients. They were definitely not cutting edge in
> > terms of speed and power because the purchase of servers is a business
> > decision involving millions of dollars for large corporations where
> > bang for the buck is always examined closely. Speed wasn't nearly as
> > important as reliability and storage capacity as well as the quality
> > of the components that shunted the data around the network. Servers
> > don't really work that hard. One client was still running two servers
> > with 486 CPU's and using Windows for Workgroups. Their other servers
> > were Pentiums running an older version of Novell Netware. When they
> > upgraded their network in 2001 - 2002 they opted for an upgraded
> > version of Netware, no hardware upgrade for their servers, and new
> > Pentium 3 desktops throughout the enterprise running Windows 2000.
> > During quiet times we managed to play Quake 3 on the desktops, but
> > they couldn't handle much else. The desktops were all IBM....because
> > they are reliable and came with good support from IBM. They all had
> > 128 megs of ram, an ATI Rage video card and a 30 gig hard drive and
> > will probably be used for about ten years.
>
> Depends on what the server is used for. Some variants of the System/390
> are positioned as servers. If it's departmental file and print then
> no, you don't need much machine. If it's handling operations for a
> large insurance company that might have 10,000 users sharing the same 3
> terabyte database then you need quite a lot of machine, in fact you
> need quite a lot of quite a lot of machines if you're doing it with
> Intel-based servers.
>
> If all servers were lightweight machines there would be no market for
> the Xeon and Itanium.
>
> > JK
> >
> > "J.Clarke" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:36:47 GMT
> > > "John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I would agree that a PC was not "orginally" designed to play
> > > > games, but it's gaming that drives the technology today. You
> > > > don't need a fast bus, fast chipset, fast memory, a 3D graphics
> > > > card like the 9800 pro, and 2 or 3 ghz of cpu power to run a
> > > > spreadsheet or write an email to Aunt Maude.
> > >
> > > You _do_ need the fast bus, fast chipset, fast memory, and 2-3 GHz
> > > of CPU power in a heavily used server managing a large database
> > > though.
> > >
> > > > The technology has evolved, and it has evolved
> > > > because of gaming and to suit gaming which is THE app that really
> > > > pushes a computer.
> > > >
> > > > On the guys stuttering problem, it is caused for sure by upgrading
> > > > from ME to XP, and not doing a clean install. I have upgraded
> > > > every OS from Windows 3.0 to XP and have never been happy with the
> > > > results. I always had to bite the bullet and do a clean install,
> > > > and then try to salvage whatever I could of my custom settings.
> > > > But after the clean install, my machine always ran like a rocket.
> > > >
> > > > JK
> > > >
> > > > "Manu T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:3f9229bf$0$1110$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > There are several factors.
> > > > >
> > > > > First a PC was NEVER designed to play games. Smooth scrolling is
> > > > > a vital part of Playstation or Ninento machines. Hell, even a
> > > > > old 8-bit Sega
> > > > master
> > > > > system had smooth scrolling landscapes in racegames etc... The
> > > > > X-Box
> > > > suffer
> > > > > from the same jerkiness as a regular PC in this respect. It's
> > > > > not that
> > > > PC's
> > > > > allways behave jerky. They don't, for example the old GTA3-game
> > > > > (everybody remmembers that, don't they?) only starts to jerk
> > > > > when cornering streets. But straight line racings DOES go
> > > > > smooth???
> > > > >
> > > > > Many programmers (e.g. Codemasters) can't program. I mean with
> > > > > this that
> > > > it
> > > > > seems very difficult to generate a smooth scrolling landscape or
> > > > > so on
> > > > PC's
> > > > > despite their suposedly awesome graphics-power. Also many
> > > > > programs eat way too much cpu-cycles (again incompetent
> > > > > programming) than what they're suposed to do (e.g. McCaffe
> > > > > virusscanners are noteworthy in this respect)
> > > > >
> > > > > Windows is quite crappy in the multitasking level. Though I
> > > > > haven't seen much Lunix-games but it seems that cpu-power is
> > > > > much more leveled between apps in Linux than on Windows.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I guess that if 'smooth' scrolling is a vital part of your
> > > > > gaming experience and you don't mind being less able to find
> > > > > pirated software
> > > > (the
> > > > > mean reason why Windows PC's are so popular) then you should buy
> > > > > a
> > > > console.
> > > > > Because for most of these games it doesn't give a **** if you've
> > > > > got the latest PC with all the bells and whistles. Just play GT3
> > > > > or Colin McRea Rally 2 (yep those old buggers) on the latest
> > > > > DX-whatever, Pentium
> > > > whatever,
> > > > > Radeon 1000XTPRo SE whatever. These games STILL stutter despite
> > > > > the
> > > > increase
> > > > > in both gfx-power and cpu-power over the last couple of years.
> > > > > Keeps you wondering what the truth is behind these socalled
> > > > > 800MHz Front side
> > > > busses?
> > > > >
> > > > > Where were the days when they could cramm everything in the 48KB
> > > > > of a ZX Spectrum and STILL managed to get a smooth scroll?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Manu T
> > > > >
> > > > > "Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
> > > > > news:yd6dnUSqxtW3hA2iRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > > Bought at Best Buy, after all the rebates, reward zone points,
> > > > > > preferred customer discount, etc...my cost was $184 + tax
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How-ever, the game occasionally stalls when playing vice city
> > > > > > 3.
> > > > How-ever,
> > > > > > there may be other apps runningconcurrently, perhaps 2-3
> > > > > > browsers,
> > > > outlook
> > > > > > express and an excel spreadsheet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Furthermore, Norton AV is running in the background.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is the occasional "stutterting" normal? Am I pushing it too
> > > > > > far, or is
> > > > it
> > > > > > the card?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All 3D benchmark tests came back normal, and I am running a P4
> > > > > > 2.4 800
> > > > mhz
> > > > > > cpu, with a 800 mhz MSI mb and 512 mb 400 kingston ddr ram, on
> > > > > > a LCD
> > > > > screen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any input please?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
> > > --John
> > > Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> > > (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> --
> --John
> Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Yeah, my system is home built and is loaded with impulse purchases from my
local Future Shop which is Canada's Best Buy. Come to think of it, it is
Best Buy in Canada now. I had such a buzz when I first got my 9800 flashed
pro. Now I take it for granted. Then you need the buzz again...and on it
goes.

Geekhood is a curse. :-)

JK

"Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
news:r86dnYfXSK5qNgmiRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> John, for the most part you probably are correct.
> I upgraded from Win2k to XP, Then I added the Radeon ATA 9800 (not Pro)
> card.
> I should had reformatted first with the Radeon card, then do a fresh
install
> of XP.
> But as it goes with most home-built boxes, the construction process does
not
> always
> take into consideration the impulsive buying possibilities at Best
> Buy.....LOL!
>
>
> Rev Marcus
> ----------------------
>
>
>
> "John Hall" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:jPWkb.214664$ko%.(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I would agree that a PC was not "orginally" designed to play games, but
> it's
> > gaming that drives the technology today. You don't need a fast bus,
fast
> > chipset, fast memory, a 3D graphics card like the 9800 pro, and 2 or 3
ghz
> > of cpu power to run a spreadsheet or write an email to Aunt Maude. The
> > technology has evolved, and it has evolved because of gaming and to suit
> > gaming which is THE app that really pushes a computer.
> >
> > On the guys stuttering problem, it is caused for sure by upgrading from
ME
> > to XP, and not doing a clean install. I have upgraded every OS from
> Windows
> > 3.0 to XP and have never been happy with the results. I always had to
> bite
> > the bullet and do a clean install, and then try to salvage whatever I
> could
> > of my custom settings. But after the clean install, my machine always
ran
> > like a rocket.
> >
> > JK
> >
> > "Manu T" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:3f9229bf$0$1110$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > There are several factors.
> > >
> > > First a PC was NEVER designed to play games. Smooth scrolling is a
vital
> > > part of Playstation or Ninento machines. Hell, even a old 8-bit Sega
> > master
> > > system had smooth scrolling landscapes in racegames etc... The X-Box
> > suffer
> > > from the same jerkiness as a regular PC in this respect. It's not that
> > PC's
> > > allways behave jerky. They don't, for example the old GTA3-game
> (everybody
> > > remmembers that, don't they?) only starts to jerk when cornering
> streets.
> > > But straight line racings DOES go smooth???
> > >
> > > Many programmers (e.g. Codemasters) can't program. I mean with this
that
> > it
> > > seems very difficult to generate a smooth scrolling landscape or so on
> > PC's
> > > despite their suposedly awesome graphics-power. Also many programs eat
> way
> > > too much cpu-cycles (again incompetent programming) than what they're
> > > suposed to do (e.g. McCaffe virusscanners are noteworthy in this
> respect)
> > >
> > > Windows is quite crappy in the multitasking level. Though I haven't
seen
> > > much Lunix-games but it seems that cpu-power is much more leveled
> between
> > > apps in Linux than on Windows.
> > >
> > > So I guess that if 'smooth' scrolling is a vital part of your gaming
> > > experience and you don't mind being less able to find pirated software
> > (the
> > > mean reason why Windows PC's are so popular) then you should buy a
> > console.
> > > Because for most of these games it doesn't give a **** if you've got
the
> > > latest PC with all the bells and whistles. Just play GT3 or Colin
McRea
> > > Rally 2 (yep those old buggers) on the latest DX-whatever, Pentium
> > whatever,
> > > Radeon 1000XTPRo SE whatever. These games STILL stutter despite the
> > increase
> > > in both gfx-power and cpu-power over the last couple of years. Keeps
you
> > > wondering what the truth is behind these socalled 800MHz Front side
> > busses?
> > >
> > > Where were the days when they could cramm everything in the 48KB of a
ZX
> > > Spectrum and STILL managed to get a smooth scroll?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Manu T
> > >
> > > "Rev Marc" <Rev@Kingdomof Heaven> wrote in message
> > > news:yd6dnUSqxtW3hA2iRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Bought at Best Buy, after all the rebates, reward zone points,
> preferred
> > > > customer discount, etc...my cost was $184 + tax
> > > >
> > > > How-ever, the game occasionally stalls when playing vice city 3.
> > How-ever,
> > > > there may be other apps runningconcurrently, perhaps 2-3 browsers,
> > outlook
> > > > express and an excel spreadsheet.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, Norton AV is running in the background.
> > > >
> > > > Is the occasional "stutterting" normal? Am I pushing it too far, or
is
> > it
> > > > the card?
> > > >
> > > > All 3D benchmark tests came back normal, and I am running a P4 2.4
800
> > mhz
> > > > cpu, with a 800 mhz MSI mb and 512 mb 400 kingston ddr ram, on a LCD
> > > screen.
> > > >
> > > > Any input please?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:46:40 GMT, "JAD" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >yeah hmm hmm sure...... GTA3 remembering.... ? remember PONG? when
computers first hit the home, games have always been a
> >major part of home computing..... I don't think your life experience goes
back far enough...
> >

Yes my (personal) experience really goes furter back then GTA3 or the many
ZX Spectrum/C64 games. Anyway the archaic example you mentioned proves what
I stated before. PONG was a dedicated machine for just playing THAT game.
And the Atari systems mentioned below had GFX processors and system design
originating from the Atari VCS. Again Atari computers are NOT PC's (not even
Atari's later offerings like the ST or TT had no resemblance to PC's).

> Please count me in, my all time favorite is Lode Runner on the Atari 800
on 5
> 1/4 floppy, protected, had to hack it so i could add lives
>
> second choice was Montezuma's Revenge ( i had a map of that piramyd on
the
> wall ) hand made to keep track of all the rooms I had been in.
>
> a tough 3rd choice was Miner49ner and the sequel miner 2049 on bank
switched
> cardtridge
>
> I had the original pong but i tired of it in a month.
>
> I guess Pacman and all the other Atari cart's are there too.
>
Anyway the thread wasn't about how fun older games on dedicated games/home
computers were. But to indentify why PC suck so badly in scrolling
landscapes. Oddly enough some games really do the trick e.g. Serious Sam (1)
is a prime example of how good 3D scrolling should be (Even Quake isn't bad
in this respect). There are probably a lot more games who display proper
'game'-behaviour as far as smooth movement is concerned but majority (some
from wel-respected software houses) really are bad (Codemasters efforts are
noteworthy of bad scrolling)

PS: My most favourite old-style game is StarFighter 3000 on Acorn Archimedes
and Lotus Turbo challenge (on various systems). Although SF3000 has been
(badly) ported to several modern systems including PC and PS1 and is not
excactly an ancient game. I really liked Uridium on the C64 (and it's
follow-up Delta). On the speccy were a lot of games that I liked but some
where not exactly the best examples of scrolling landscapes (Marsport e.g.)

Regards,

Manu T