Does anyone know if a (Made By) ATI 9800Pro (retail box) has the same shim
on the GPU that the 9500Pro had?

I am thinking of changing the stock HS/Fan , but not going to if there is a
glued shim.
If so, does the shim still leave the same gap between the HS and GPU?

On Sun, 2 May 2004 12:10:43 -0700, "Sept1967"
<sept1967@highstream.(Erase)net> wrote:

>Does anyone know if a (Made By) ATI 9800Pro (retail box) has the same shim
>on the GPU that the 9500Pro had?
>
>I am thinking of changing the stock HS/Fan , but not going to if there is a
>glued shim.
>If so, does the shim still leave the same gap between the HS and GPU?
>
>

Yes. I believe it has the raised shim. But I also believe the latest
Zalman heatipie is designed to overcome that issue. Better double
check with Zalman first though.

Slug <slug@no_email.here> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> On Sun, 2 May 2004 12:10:43 -0700, "Sept1967"
> <sept1967@highstream.(Erase)net> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know if a (Made By) ATI 9800Pro (retail box) has the same shim
> >on the GPU that the 9500Pro had?
> >
> >I am thinking of changing the stock HS/Fan , but not going to if there is a
> >glued shim.
> >If so, does the shim still leave the same gap between the HS and GPU?
> >
> >
>
> Yes. I believe it has the raised shim. But I also believe the latest
> Zalman heatipie is designed to overcome that issue. Better double
> check with Zalman first though.

Zalman advices to use "quite an ammount" of cooling stuff! And with
"quite an ammount" it means quite more then you put on a cpu. Basicly,
as the booklet says..put the heatsink base on after applying the
cooling stuff on the gpu... then take it of to see IF there is cooling
stuff on the heatsink, if cooling stuff is on the heatsink you used
enough..if not..you need to use more!

Seems easy enough not?

On 3 May 2004 05:48:01 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Dark Avenger) wrote:


>Zalman advices to use "quite an ammount" of cooling stuff! And with
>"quite an ammount" it means quite more then you put on a cpu. Basicly,
>as the booklet says..put the heatsink base on after applying the
>cooling stuff on the gpu... then take it of to see IF there is cooling
>stuff on the heatsink, if cooling stuff is on the heatsink you used
>enough..if not..you need to use more!
>
>Seems easy enough not?

Filling up a gap with thermal paste is not a method I personally would
like to use. I thought I Zalman designed the ZM80C-HP to overcome
this issue on the Radeon 9800pro but maybe I am wrong.

Funny.

I tried that with my 9500pro. The Artic Silver never even touched the Vantec
Iceberq4 . So the flippin shim got itself knifed off.

I just dont want that stress with my 9800Pro.


"Dark Avenger" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Slug <slug@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> > On Sun, 2 May 2004 12:10:43 -0700, "Sept1967"
> > <sept1967@highstream.(Erase)net> wrote:
> >
> > >Does anyone know if a (Made By) ATI 9800Pro (retail box) has the same
shim
> > >on the GPU that the 9500Pro had?
> > >
> > >I am thinking of changing the stock HS/Fan , but not going to if there
is a
> > >glued shim.
> > >If so, does the shim still leave the same gap between the HS and GPU?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yes. I believe it has the raised shim. But I also believe the latest
> > Zalman heatipie is designed to overcome that issue. Better double
> > check with Zalman first though.
>
> Zalman advices to use "quite an ammount" of cooling stuff! And with
> "quite an ammount" it means quite more then you put on a cpu. Basicly,
> as the booklet says..put the heatsink base on after applying the
> cooling stuff on the gpu... then take it of to see IF there is cooling
> stuff on the heatsink, if cooling stuff is on the heatsink you used
> enough..if not..you need to use more!
>
> Seems easy enough not?

Slug <slug@no_email.here> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> On 3 May 2004 05:48:01 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Dark Avenger) wrote:
>
>
> >Zalman advices to use "quite an ammount" of cooling stuff! And with
> >"quite an ammount" it means quite more then you put on a cpu. Basicly,
> >as the booklet says..put the heatsink base on after applying the
> >cooling stuff on the gpu... then take it of to see IF there is cooling
> >stuff on the heatsink, if cooling stuff is on the heatsink you used
> >enough..if not..you need to use more!
> >
> >Seems easy enough not?
>
> Filling up a gap with thermal paste is not a method I personally would
> like to use. I thought I Zalman designed the ZM80C-HP to overcome
> this issue on the Radeon 9800pro but maybe I am wrong.

The shim of the 9800 Pro is about on the same level as the gpu, so it
should work :-) , but yes..you can remove the shim....

On 4 May 2004 02:15:45 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Dark Avenger) wrote:

>Slug <slug@no_email.here> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
>> On 3 May 2004 05:48:01 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Dark Avenger) wrote:

>> >Zalman advices to use "quite an ammount" of cooling stuff! And with
>> >"quite an ammount" it means quite more then you put on a cpu. Basicly,
>> >as the booklet says..put the heatsink base on after applying the
>> >cooling stuff on the gpu... then take it of to see IF there is cooling
>> >stuff on the heatsink, if cooling stuff is on the heatsink you used
>> >enough..if not..you need to use more!

>> >Seems easy enough not?

>> Filling up a gap with thermal paste is not a method I personally would
>> like to use. I thought I Zalman designed the ZM80C-HP to overcome
>> this issue on the Radeon 9800pro but maybe I am wrong.

>The shim of the 9800 Pro is about on the same level as the gpu, so it
>should work :-) , but yes..you can remove the shim....


The frame plate around the chip supports the heatsink, care therefore
when you mount anything on the GPU without that support.

The frame plate does not transfer much heat. Do not apply paste to the
frame as this will give no heat reduction but will increase the
distance [ dis-benefit ] twixt slug & H/S.

The top of the GPU slug to the bottom of the heatsink does the
transfer work. There is a 002" ( ish ) gap twixt frame & H/S so this
needs to be filled or no real transfer can take place.

Personally I'd use a thermal pad, but if you must use grease apply a
very small dab to the centre of the H/S first and rub it well into the
pores with your finger inside a clean oil free plastic bag. When the
centre area is a ' dull glaze ' that part is done - do not polish it
shiny, leave it as it is.

Then the slug, first repeat the ' finger in bag ' on the slug and then
put a bigger dab of grease in the centre of the slug and spread evenly
over the whole surface area, a razor blade works fine.

If you lack confidence get a small piece of square balsa wood the size
of the frame push the blade through the wood so it's just ' proud '
then resting the wood on both sides of the frame draw it gently over
the slug you should have both the ' even ' & ' the whole surface '.

BoroLad

"Sept1967" <sept1967@highstream.(Erase)net> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> Funny.
>
> I tried that with my 9500pro. The Artic Silver never even touched the Vantec
> Iceberq4 . So the flippin shim got itself knifed off.
>
> I just dont want that stress with my 9800Pro.

Yeah - I'd be really nervous about attaching a big HS w/out the shim
(heard a few cracked core stories). I checked my 9700Pro when I
installed a VGA silencer, and there was a noticable gap with the shim
installed - you wouldn't get away with a thin layer of grease. I
bought some AS Ceramique (dense, almost as good as AS5,
non-conductive) so I could put a relatively thick layer and not worry
too much about it. My O/C is much better, the H/S doesn't get nearly
as hot as the dinky stock one did.
Note that this was a built-by ATI card - seems like the other cards
may have bigger gaps.

HTH,
Kendt

>
> Yeah - I'd be really nervous about attaching a big HS w/out the shim
> (heard a few cracked core stories). I checked my 9700Pro when I
> installed a VGA silencer, and there was a noticable gap with the shim
> installed - you wouldn't get away with a thin layer of grease. I
> bought some AS Ceramique (dense, almost as good as AS5,
> non-conductive) so I could put a relatively thick layer and not worry
> too much about it. My O/C is much better, the H/S doesn't get nearly
> as hot as the dinky stock one did.
> Note that this was a built-by ATI card - seems like the other cards
> may have bigger gaps.
>
> HTH,
> Kendt

My Build By Ati card modded very simple, yes there was a slight gap
but... not a problematic one though. And now my card is ... acceptable
cool.. after a few hours gaming I still can touch the heatsink..so..
it cools enough...but then again.. I don't overclock!

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 4 May 2004 02:15:45 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Dark Avenger) wrote:
>
> >Slug <slug@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> >> On 3 May 2004 05:48:01 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (Dark Avenger) wrote:
>
> >> >Zalman advices to use "quite an ammount" of cooling stuff! And with
> >> >"quite an ammount" it means quite more then you put on a cpu. Basicly,
> >> >as the booklet says..put the heatsink base on after applying the
> >> >cooling stuff on the gpu... then take it of to see IF there is cooling
> >> >stuff on the heatsink, if cooling stuff is on the heatsink you used
> >> >enough..if not..you need to use more!
>
> >> >Seems easy enough not?
>
> >> Filling up a gap with thermal paste is not a method I personally would
> >> like to use. I thought I Zalman designed the ZM80C-HP to overcome
> >> this issue on the Radeon 9800pro but maybe I am wrong.
>
> >The shim of the 9800 Pro is about on the same level as the gpu, so it
> >should work :-) , but yes..you can remove the shim....
>
>
> The frame plate around the chip supports the heatsink, care therefore
> when you mount anything on the GPU without that support.
>
> The frame plate does not transfer much heat. Do not apply paste to the
> frame as this will give no heat reduction but will increase the
> distance [ dis-benefit ] twixt slug & H/S.
>
> The top of the GPU slug to the bottom of the heatsink does the
> transfer work. There is a 002" ( ish ) gap twixt frame & H/S so this
> needs to be filled or no real transfer can take place.
>
> Personally I'd use a thermal pad, but if you must use grease apply a
> very small dab to the centre of the H/S first and rub it well into the
> pores with your finger inside a clean oil free plastic bag. When the
> centre area is a ' dull glaze ' that part is done - do not polish it
> shiny, leave it as it is.
>
> Then the slug, first repeat the ' finger in bag ' on the slug and then
> put a bigger dab of grease in the centre of the slug and spread evenly
> over the whole surface area, a razor blade works fine.
>
> If you lack confidence get a small piece of square balsa wood the size
> of the frame push the blade through the wood so it's just ' proud '
> then resting the wood on both sides of the frame draw it gently over
> the slug you should have both the ' even ' & ' the whole surface '.
>
> BoroLad

You ARE kidding right? Making the paste thickness even
to the top of the spacer? Might as well leave the stock
heatsink on!

Pop that spacer right off. Its there for mass
production reasons, it prevents the Chinese
or Tiawanese assemblers from damaging too many
cores banging the boards around on the assembly line
after the HSF is added.

The ATI core is no more delicate than any other
CPU core and should be treated with the same
respect. banging on the corners is not suggested.
Properly aligning and placing a aftermarket HSF
should result in no damage. Banging away at things
and cranking things down like your working on an
engine block may result in damage and believe me thats
what happens on a board assembly line.

More "cooling stuff" is just as bad as not enough
"cooling stuff". Cooling stuff is there to smooth out
and fill the slight depressions on the surface of the
core and/or HSF and loses its effectivity when
gobbed or gooped on. Thats why so many stock units
develop artifacting or hang when overclocked (or not).
ATI used thermal conductive pink goop pads to
compensate for the need of a shim to protect the cores
during manufacturing and post manufacturing handling.

These boards probably see one pass of functional test
before they ship so they never get a chance to get up
to temperature, and the pink goop never really activates
until its in your machine and you play UT2K4 at high
detail for a couple hours... then it heats up, spreads out
looses what little efficiency it had and your video goes
blooey because the core to HSF contact has deteriorated.

The shim can leave a quite a gap, unacceptable if you are
going to use ANY aftermarket cooler (IMHO) at decent
efficiency unless it is specifically machined with a inset
to fit over the shim (I've seen a couple custom ones -
waste of good CNC run time). Don't waste your money if
your not going to use the equipment at its design potentual.

If your afraid of cracking your core you shouldn't
be messing with after market cooling...it voids your
warrantee you know.

--
><{{ MudFish (Co30){('>
www.Co30.com
"Careful with that Axe Eugene."