Hello everybody,

According to several websites, boxed Athlon 64 CPUs come with a thermal
pad (A.K.A. phase-change material) pre-applied on the heatsink.

e.g. http://www.madshrimps.be/printart.php?articID=135

"Also interesting to know, this heatsink has some sort of thermal pad
pre-applied. Mostly this looks and behaves like bubble gum, but this
one's different."

If you've bought a boxed Athlon 64, can you confirm that the HSF is the
Ajigo MF043-044A and that it comes with a pre-applied thermal pad?

I'm thoroughly confused because the following document warns: "Do not
use a thermal pad for AMD Athlon 64 or AMD Opteron processors!"

Thermal Interface Material Comparison: Thermal Pads vs. Thermal Grease
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/26951.pdf

Did AMD change their mind since April 2004?

--
Regards, Grumble

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:05:28 +0100, Grumble <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Hello everybody,
>
>According to several websites, boxed Athlon 64 CPUs come with a thermal
>pad (A.K.A. phase-change material) pre-applied on the heatsink.
>
>e.g. http://www.madshrimps.be/printart.php?articID=135
>
>"Also interesting to know, this heatsink has some sort of thermal pad
>pre-applied. Mostly this looks and behaves like bubble gum, but this
>one's different."

I wouldn't call the TIM on my boxed A64 3500+(90nm) a "thermal pad" - it
was very thinly applied and definitely had a pastey consistency to it
before use (I scratched just the edge of it with a finger nail) and I
haven't dismounted it so don't know what it's turned into with heat &
pressure. It looked & felt nothing like the pads I've seen on the Athlon
XPs, which are thicker and do have a bubblegum feel to them.

>If you've bought a boxed Athlon 64, can you confirm that the HSF is the
>Ajigo MF043-044A and that it comes with a pre-applied thermal pad?

I've no idea who made it - it's not obvious and I did not examine it in
detail beyond looking at the TIM. Where is it marked who made it?

>I'm thoroughly confused because the following document warns: "Do not
>use a thermal pad for AMD Athlon 64 or AMD Opteron processors!"
>
>Thermal Interface Material Comparison: Thermal Pads vs. Thermal Grease
>http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/26951.pdf
>
>Did AMD change their mind since April 2004?

I don't think so.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:05:28 +0100, Grumble <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Hello everybody,
>
>According to several websites, boxed Athlon 64 CPUs come with a thermal
>pad (A.K.A. phase-change material) pre-applied on the heatsink.
>
>e.g. http://www.madshrimps.be/printart.php?articID=135
>
>"Also interesting to know, this heatsink has some sort of thermal pad
>pre-applied. Mostly this looks and behaves like bubble gum, but this
>one's different."

I disagree with their characterization of the material that's on the
heat sink bottom. It's a grayish paste-like material that if you tried
removing before it's been used, i.e., heated up by the CPU, would
break up easily, unlike a thermal pad.

>
>If you've bought a boxed Athlon 64, can you confirm that the HSF is the
>Ajigo MF043-044A and that it comes with a pre-applied thermal pad?

The material that's on the heat sink bottom is not a pad.

>
>I'm thoroughly confused because the following document warns: "Do not
>use a thermal pad for AMD Athlon 64 or AMD Opteron processors!"
>
>Thermal Interface Material Comparison: Thermal Pads vs. Thermal Grease
>http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/26951.pdf
>
>Did AMD change their mind since April 2004?

No. For heat sinks that rest directly on the microprocessor die, they
recommend using a pad. For microprocessors that have a heat spreader,
they do not recommend using a pad.

Andy wrote:

> Grumble wrote:
>
>> If you've bought a boxed Athlon 64, can you confirm that the HSF is the
>> Ajigo MF043-044A and that it comes with a pre-applied thermal pad?
>
> The material that's on the heat sink bottom is not a pad.

I'm completely new to this game, but it seems to me that it qualifies as
a thermal pad, or phase-change material, according to the definition
given by AMD. Am I mistaken?

> No. For heat sinks that rest directly on the microprocessor die, they
> recommend using a pad. For microprocessors that have a heat spreader,
> they do not recommend using a pad.

The document states: "High-performance thermal greases and pastes are
the recommended solution for lidded processors, such as the AMD Athlon
64 and AMD Opteron processors." Would you consider the pre-applied
material on the heatsink some kind of thermal paste?

Did you just use what came in the box, or did you have to purchase
additional thermal paste?

--
Regards, Grumble

Bitstring <42341c9f$0$20744$(E-Mail Removed)>, from the wonderful
person Grumble <(E-Mail Removed)> said
<snip>
>> No. For heat sinks that rest directly on the microprocessor die, they
>> recommend using a pad.

Because they are (somewhat justifiably) paranoid about Joe Blow screwing
up paste/grease application, and because they don't want/expect the
general public to be changing the HS, or CPU.

>>For microprocessors that have a heat spreader,
>> they do not recommend using a pad.
>
>The document states: "High-performance thermal greases and pastes are
>the recommended solution for lidded processors, such as the AMD Athlon
>64 and AMD Opteron processors." Would you consider the pre-applied
>material on the heatsink some kind of thermal paste?

Yes, I'd consider it paste which happens to be pre-applied to the HS.
This obviously only works with pastes which have very high viscosity
(approaching 'solid') at room temperature - not a problem, just mix your
Zinc Oxide (or whatever) with something at the 'waxy' end of 'oil'.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:57:49 +0100, Grumble <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Andy wrote:
>
>> Grumble wrote:
>>
>>> If you've bought a boxed Athlon 64, can you confirm that the HSF is the
>>> Ajigo MF043-044A and that it comes with a pre-applied thermal pad?
>>
>> The material that's on the heat sink bottom is not a pad.
>
>I'm completely new to this game, but it seems to me that it qualifies as
>a thermal pad, or phase-change material, according to the definition
>given by AMD. Am I mistaken?
>
>> No. For heat sinks that rest directly on the microprocessor die, they
>> recommend using a pad. For microprocessors that have a heat spreader,
>> they do not recommend using a pad.
>
>The document states: "High-performance thermal greases and pastes are
>the recommended solution for lidded processors, such as the AMD Athlon
>64 and AMD Opteron processors." Would you consider the pre-applied
>material on the heatsink some kind of thermal paste?
>
>Did you just use what came in the box, or did you have to purchase
>additional thermal paste?

FWIW, I have a boxed 3200+ Newcastle and the HS had pre-applied thermal
paste. I've tried Artic Silver 3 on it and don't see any difference at
all, Maybe 1C lower at idle, probably just room temp changed. ;p.

Ed

George Macdonald wrote:

> I wouldn't call the TIM on my boxed A64 3500+(90nm) a "thermal pad" - it
> was very thinly applied and definitely had a pastey consistency to it
> before use (I scratched just the edge of it with a finger nail) and I
> haven't dismounted it so don't know what it's turned into with heat &
> pressure. It looked & felt nothing like the pads I've seen on the Athlon
> XPs, which are thicker and do have a bubblegum feel to them.

If I understand correctly, you didn't add any extra thermal paste? The
pre-applied TIM is enough. Right?

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:25:56 +0100, Grumble <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>George Macdonald wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't call the TIM on my boxed A64 3500+(90nm) a "thermal pad" - it
>> was very thinly applied and definitely had a pastey consistency to it
>> before use (I scratched just the edge of it with a finger nail) and I
>> haven't dismounted it so don't know what it's turned into with heat &
>> pressure. It looked & felt nothing like the pads I've seen on the Athlon
>> XPs, which are thicker and do have a bubblegum feel to them.
>
>If I understand correctly, you didn't add any extra thermal paste? The
>pre-applied TIM is enough. Right?

You only want to apply one thermal interface.

Chapter 4 (Builder’s Guide)....
The heatsink has a thermal interface material pre-applied on the bottom.
This material is protected by a plastic cover.

Do not use the thermal interface material if it has scratches or gaps.
If replacement thermal interface material is needed, contact AMD
technical support for assistance at http://ask.amd.com or (408)
749-3060. In EMEA, please contact AMD technical support for assistance
at http://www.amd.com/support.

If a heatsink is removed for any reason, clean the processor and
heatsink surface and re-apply an AMD approved thermal interface material
before re-installing the processor.

Builder’s Guide for AMD Opteron™ Processor-Based Servers and
Workstations
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...docs/30925.pdf

hth,
Ed

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:25:56 +0100, Grumble <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>George Macdonald wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't call the TIM on my boxed A64 3500+(90nm) a "thermal pad" - it
>> was very thinly applied and definitely had a pastey consistency to it
>> before use (I scratched just the edge of it with a finger nail) and I
>> haven't dismounted it so don't know what it's turned into with heat &
>> pressure. It looked & felt nothing like the pads I've seen on the Athlon
>> XPs, which are thicker and do have a bubblegum feel to them.
>
>If I understand correctly, you didn't add any extra thermal paste? The
>pre-applied TIM is enough. Right?

Correct.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald