I do a lot of video encoding (2 at once sometimes) as well as other
fairly heavy CPU intensive things while encoding goes on. I also do
some GPU/CPU intensive gaming like Far Cry and will likely get into
Doom III. I also use VMWare GSX a lot. I'm considering building...

2-way Opteron 242
(242 is $300 on pricewatch vs. $440 for 244. 2x244 worth the extra
$280?)
Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885)
ATI AIW 9700 Pro (already have one)
WinXP Pro and Suse Linux

What's the difference between Opteron and Athlon other than that
Althon is not SMP capable? Should I go for a single Athlon 64FX or is
dual Opteron better for doing many tasks at once, especially VMWare?
I'm thinking the latter, especially for WinXP.

Please respond to this thread and not email.

Thanks in advance.

On 29 Mar 2004 14:03:53 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) (Xenophon)
wrote:
>I do a lot of video encoding (2 at once sometimes) as well as other
>fairly heavy CPU intensive things while encoding goes on. I also do
>some GPU/CPU intensive gaming like Far Cry and will likely get into
>Doom III. I also use VMWare GSX a lot. I'm considering building...
>
>2-way Opteron 242
>(242 is $300 on pricewatch vs. $440 for 244. 2x244 worth the extra
>$280?)
>Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885)
>ATI AIW 9700 Pro (already have one)
>WinXP Pro and Suse Linux
>
>What's the difference between Opteron and Athlon other than that
>Althon is not SMP capable?

The Athlon64 FX and the Opteron 14x chips are 100% identical. The
only difference between those chips and the Opteron 24x chips is that
the latter are dual capable while the former are not.

> Should I go for a single Athlon 64FX or is
>dual Opteron better for doing many tasks at once, especially VMWare?
>I'm thinking the latter, especially for WinXP.

For multiple tasks at once, dual processors systems will almost always
be a lot better than single processor systems. I don't know how much
VMWare enters into this equation, but it supports multiple processors,
so it's almost certain to work better with two chips than just one.

Now, games are a slightly different case here. Games will almost
certainly be faster with just a single fast processor than two
slightly slower processors. Most games are not multithreaded to any
meaningful amount, and I doubt that we'll see this change for Doom III
or Far Cry (ID has made some noise about multithreading in the past,
but it hasn't lead to much actual performance).

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Hill
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes

>The Athlon64 FX and the Opteron 14x chips are 100% identical.

Doesn't the Opteron require registered memory, whereas the A64FX will
work with cheaper unbuffered SDRAM?

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"Mike Tomlinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:whU0P7AwuVaAFw+(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Hill
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
> >The Athlon64 FX and the Opteron 14x chips are 100% identical.
>
> Doesn't the Opteron require registered memory, whereas the A64FX will
> work with cheaper unbuffered SDRAM?
>


No. Not yet.

--
Derek

Thanks for the response. I didn't realize Althon FX was identical to
Opteron other than SMP. I thought FX had additional boosts and 64-bit
features of some sort... like a dot release or something like that.

I should have clarified my question though. For what I intend to do
below, would it be better to have a single 3000+ FX (~$800) or dual
1.6ghz Operton (~$300 ea.). Gaming may be the only reason to have a
single faster CPU but will the 1.6Ghz be enough for the most demanding
games coming up? Even though the games are not dual capable, the OS
calls and other services could go to the other CPU so there may be
some benefit with the second CPU.

If it is true that the only difference of FX and Opteron is SMP
capability, I may just go for dual Opteron.

Thanks...


Tony Hill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> On 29 Mar 2004 14:03:53 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) (Xenophon)
> wrote:
> >I do a lot of video encoding (2 at once sometimes) as well as other
> >fairly heavy CPU intensive things while encoding goes on. I also do
> >some GPU/CPU intensive gaming like Far Cry and will likely get into
> >Doom III. I also use VMWare GSX a lot. I'm considering building...
> >
> >2-way Opteron 242
> >(242 is $300 on pricewatch vs. $440 for 244. 2x244 worth the extra
> >$280?)
> >Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885)
> >ATI AIW 9700 Pro (already have one)
> >WinXP Pro and Suse Linux
> >
> >What's the difference between Opteron and Athlon other than that
> >Althon is not SMP capable?
>
> The Athlon64 FX and the Opteron 14x chips are 100% identical. The
> only difference between those chips and the Opteron 24x chips is that
> the latter are dual capable while the former are not.
>
> > Should I go for a single Athlon 64FX or is
> >dual Opteron better for doing many tasks at once, especially VMWare?
> >I'm thinking the latter, especially for WinXP.
>
> For multiple tasks at once, dual processors systems will almost always
> be a lot better than single processor systems. I don't know how much
> VMWare enters into this equation, but it supports multiple processors,
> so it's almost certain to work better with two chips than just one.
>
> Now, games are a slightly different case here. Games will almost
> certainly be faster with just a single fast processor than two
> slightly slower processors. Most games are not multithreaded to any
> meaningful amount, and I doubt that we'll see this change for Doom III
> or Far Cry (ID has made some noise about multithreading in the past,
> but it hasn't lead to much actual performance).
>
> -------------
> Tony Hill
> hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

I'm confused with the memory the Tyan s2885 requires. According to
the manual....
ftp://ftp.tyan.com/manuals/m_s2885_100.pdf

....it says it 'requires registered' memory but that it 'supports ECC'
memory.

Doing a search, it looks like the only registered memory IS ECC
memory. So I'm guessing the board requires ECC. Wonder why it
doesn't explicitly state it that way.




(E-Mail Removed) (Xenophon) wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> I do a lot of video encoding (2 at once sometimes) as well as other
> fairly heavy CPU intensive things while encoding goes on. I also do
> some GPU/CPU intensive gaming like Far Cry and will likely get into
> Doom III. I also use VMWare GSX a lot. I'm considering building...
>
> 2-way Opteron 242
> (242 is $300 on pricewatch vs. $440 for 244. 2x244 worth the extra
> $280?)
> Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885)
> ATI AIW 9700 Pro (already have one)
> WinXP Pro and Suse Linux
>
> What's the difference between Opteron and Athlon other than that
> Althon is not SMP capable? Should I go for a single Athlon 64FX or is
> dual Opteron better for doing many tasks at once, especially VMWare?
> I'm thinking the latter, especially for WinXP.
>
> Please respond to this thread and not email.
>
> Thanks in advance.

Xenophon <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Thanks for the response. I didn't realize Althon FX was identical to
> Opteron other than SMP. I thought FX had additional boosts and 64-bit
> features of some sort... like a dot release or something like that.

Caveat: the Opteron 148 and Athlon 64FX both are DDR400 fsb, while the
Opteron 140/142/144 are all DDR333; I can't recall if the 146 is available
in both DDR333 and DDR400 or if it's also DDR333 only.

> below, would it be better to have a single 3000+ FX (~$800)

FX51 (2.2ghz, 1mb) -- the 3000+ is the Athlon64 non-FX, and (2ghz, 512kb,
single channel)

> or dual 1.6ghz Operton (~$300 ea.).

That's a 242, and thus DDR333. Also, bear in mind that the difference
between the $600 total for hte dual 1.6s and the single FX51 will be
swallowed up by the increased cost of a dual-processor motherboard.

You might also want to consider a single Opteron 146, or Athlon 64 3200+

Both sell for around $300, and offer a very significant fraction of the
performance of an Opteron 148 or Athlon 64FX-51.

> Gaming may be the only reason to have a single faster CPU but will the
> 1.6Ghz be enough for the most demanding games coming up?

In the very short run, a 1.6ghz should be fine, although I'd be a lot more

> Even though the games are not dual capable, the OS calls and other
> services could go to the other CPU so there may be some benefit with the
> second CPU.

There is a general perception that there's a slight benefit, but in general
it has not been borne out in

> If it is true that the only difference of FX and Opteron is SMP
> capability, I may just go for dual Opteron.

That's true for the top-speed models; for the slower models, note the FSB
difference. It's probably not that significant, but it's worth considering.

--
Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

"Elder Party 2004: Cthulhu for President -- this time WE'RE the lesser
evil."

Xenophon <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I'm confused with the memory the Tyan s2885 requires. According to
> the manual....
>
> ...it says it 'requires registered' memory but that it 'supports ECC'
> memory.
>
> Doing a search, it looks like the only registered memory IS ECC
> memory. So I'm guessing the board requires ECC. Wonder why it
> doesn't explicitly state it that way.

Registered memory and ECC memory are two different things.

MOST registered memory supports ECC, but there's nothing inherently
preventing someone from manufacturing non-ECC registered memory.

--
Nate Edel http://www.nkedel.com/

"Elder Party 2004: Cthulhu for President -- this time WE'RE the lesser
evil."

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:36:16 +0100, Mike Tomlinson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Tony Hill
><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>
>>The Athlon64 FX and the Opteron 14x chips are 100% identical.
>
>Doesn't the Opteron require registered memory, whereas the A64FX will
>work with cheaper unbuffered SDRAM?

The current revision of the Athlon64 FX requires registered memory as
well, just like the Opteron.

In a few months time AMD plans on switching the Athlon64 FX to a
different socket (socket 939) and at that time it will work with
unregistered memory, among a few other little differences, but for now
it's the exact same chip as the Opteron.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

On 30 Mar 2004 09:27:43 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) (Xenophon)
wrote:
>Thanks for the response. I didn't realize Althon FX was identical to
>Opteron other than SMP. I thought FX had additional boosts and 64-bit
>features of some sort... like a dot release or something like that.

Nope, same exact chips. There's a very minor issue where the first
revision of the Opteron (that went on sale last April) would only work
with DDR333 memory or slower, while the newer Opterons and the
Athlon64 FX work with DDR400 memory, so in that sense I suppose it is
a "dot" release, but so are the Opterons now.

>I should have clarified my question though. For what I intend to do
>below, would it be better to have a single 3000+ FX (~$800) or dual
>1.6ghz Operton (~$300 ea.).

Well the Athlon64 FX 51 runs at 2.2GHz while the Athlon64 FX 53 runs
at 2.4GHz. There is no Athlon64 FX 3000+, I think you might be
confusing the regular Athlon64 line ($150 to $400 or so) and the
Athlon64 FX line ($700 - $800).

> Gaming may be the only reason to have a
>single faster CPU but will the 1.6Ghz be enough for the most demanding
>games coming up?

With a fairly high-end video card, yeah it should be ok for the next
while. Most games are more dependent on the video card these days
than the processor.

> Even though the games are not dual capable, the OS
>calls and other services could go to the other CPU so there may be
>some benefit with the second CPU.

There will be a (very) small benefit here, and things like sound are
sometimes handled by a second thread, however you also lose a little
bit of performance in a dual-processor setup for extra overhead. In
the end the small performance gains you mentioned and the extra
overhead more or less cancel each other out and you get roughly
equivalent performance to a single processor setup.

>If it is true that the only difference of FX and Opteron is SMP
>capability, I may just go for dual Opteron.

If you can afford it, it's a great setup!

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca