Hi,
I have a problem with this config. First of all the mobo is an asus
cusl2, it boots fine with a tualatin celeron1.3ghz cpu and an
upgradeware 370 tualatin adaptor. So the mobo, hard drive, video card,
memory and keyboard are fine.

Bios settings are for 1.5v and 100Mhz no overclock.

Enter the Lin-Lin adaptor with another Celeron 1.3 which I just
removed from an upgradeware slotI adaptor I'm using on an Asus P2b, so
this cpu is also good.

I have the Lin-Lin set according to the instructions on the box with
two jumpers, one on A5-A6 and the other one on B8-B9.

I get the whir of the cpu fan, green light on the floppy, boot noises
from the hard drive and a black monitor screen. But it doesn't boot
after that.

Can anyone who has experience with this adapter give me a tip?

please.

thanks, eric

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Hi,
> I have a problem with this config. First of all the mobo is an asus
> cusl2, it boots fine with a tualatin celeron1.3ghz cpu and an
> upgradeware 370 tualatin adaptor. So the mobo, hard drive, video card,
> memory and keyboard are fine.
>
> Bios settings are for 1.5v and 100Mhz no overclock.
>
> Enter the Lin-Lin adaptor with another Celeron 1.3 which I just
> removed from an upgradeware slotI adaptor I'm using on an Asus P2b, so
> this cpu is also good.
>
> I have the Lin-Lin set according to the instructions on the box with
> two jumpers, one on A5-A6 and the other one on B8-B9.
>
> I get the whir of the cpu fan, green light on the floppy, boot noises
> from the hard drive and a black monitor screen. But it doesn't boot
> after that.
>
> Can anyone who has experience with this adapter give me a tip?
>
> please.
>
> thanks, eric

First off, I don't have the adapter, but have to question why you would
bother buying this, when you've got a 370GU and you know it works.

The problem could be the BIOS. Apparently, I answered a question
like this a while back, only about another generic adapter.

On the CUSL2, if you go for one of the later BIOS, apparently
the Vcore is set to 1.7V, instead of the 1.5V that the Tualatin
requests. An older version of BIOS lets the voltage go to 1.5V.
Running at 1.7V would make the processor run hotter. That suggests
the BIOS thinks it is dealing with a Coppermine and in the usual
Asus way, is trying to prevent you from undervolting. My Google
searches don't show any solutions to this, other than backing off
the BIOS version.

When I check the Upgradeware site for the 370GU adapter, it doesn't
have VID jumpers and it lists the CUSL2 motherboard as compatible.
That suggests that the hardware needed to make this work is on the
motherboard.

Even if the BIOS selected 1.7V on its own, I would have expected
the thing to POST. The absolute maximum voltage for the Tualatin
is 1.75 volts, so you would be close to the spec sheet max.

Do you know whether entering "Jumper Mode" disables the BIOS
programming of the VID value ? Maybe if you try disabling
Jumperless operation, and use the jumpers on the board to set
things up, the BIOS will let the processor set the voltage.

I hope it isn't fried...

What is funny, is I looked inside the 1014.001 beta BIOS, and it has
microcode for CPUID 06B1 and 06B4, which are the Tualatin processors.
So, at least Asus thought someone might be sticking a Tually
in there. Now, what are the odds that the 1014.001 BIOS also
knows not to screw with the voltage ?

(without audio)
ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/so...2/1014-001.zip
(with audio)
ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/so...2/1014a001.zip

This thread suggests clearing CMOS and loading setup defaults as
part of the BIOS flashing process. I think the thing that is missing,
is which processor is used to flash the BIOS, and at what point
the new processor is inserted. I would flash with a known stable
processor before proceeding further. You don't want to add a dead
BIOS chip to your challenges.

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...threadid=38900

Paul

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:30:34 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) (Paul) wrote:


>First off, I don't have the adapter, but have to question why you would
>bother buying this, when you've got a 370GU and you know it works.


Hi Paul,
Let's see if I can answer this first question. Apart from being an
adventurous type with various computers about the house, I am starting
to sell these items, so ergo I am obligated to know them inside out.
There is dang sparse info about them on the net and the configs on the
box the apparatus comes in are, speaking bluntly, wrong, at least for
my chipset.

>The problem could be the BIOS.

To make a long story short, I have solved the problem, which was not
the bios or the mobo. It's the adaptor config, the jumpers which
determine voltage. It's the jumper configuration on the adapter which
asks for a certain voltage from the mobo regulator. I had to learn the
jumper configs, that's all. The info provided on the box appears to be
just plain wrong. Asking in various forums, like this one, has
provided little data.


>On the CUSL2, if you go for one of the later BIOS, apparently
>the Vcore is set to 1.7V, instead of the 1.5V that the Tualatin
>requests. An older version of BIOS lets the voltage go to 1.5V.
>Running at 1.7V would make the processor run hotter. That suggests
>the BIOS thinks it is dealing with a Coppermine and in the usual
>Asus way, is trying to prevent you from undervolting. My Google
>searches don't show any solutions to this, other than backing off
>the BIOS version.

I've had this experience with the 370gu, right. The thing is that with
backing off on the bios, you lose voltage configs in the bios and
you're stuck at 1.5v. Good for some folks, maybe bad for an overclock.

The Lin-lIn and the 370gu from Upgradeware are really two different
animals. Technically I can't say why. But with the Lin-Lin you can
select your voltage. Only you need a map. The Lin-Lin is also cheaper,
however not for the faint of heart.

Another thing is that the upgradeware adapter is kind of permanent in
the sense that the fit of the cpu into the adaptor is so tight that
some folks have bent pins on removal. I'm leaving my celeron in the
370gu for life.

>Maybe if you try disabling
>Jumperless operation, and use the jumpers on the board to set
>things up, the BIOS will let the processor set the voltage.

this could be true, I haven't done it, though.


>I hope it isn't fried...

No, not fried. It's running fine. I'm booting at 1.6v at 1.520ghz now
with the celeron 1.3.

check out the last few posts of this thread that I am adding info to
at:

http://www.bp6.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=10558#10558

cheers, eric

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:30:34 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) (Paul) wrote:
>
>
> >First off, I don't have the adapter, but have to question why you would
> >bother buying this, when you've got a 370GU and you know it works.
>
>
> Hi Paul,
> Let's see if I can answer this first question. Apart from being an
> adventurous type with various computers about the house, I am starting
> to sell these items, so ergo I am obligated to know them inside out.
> There is dang sparse info about them on the net and the configs on the
> box the apparatus comes in are, speaking bluntly, wrong, at least for
> my chipset.
>
> >The problem could be the BIOS.
>
> To make a long story short, I have solved the problem, which was not
> the bios or the mobo. It's the adaptor config, the jumpers which
> determine voltage. It's the jumper configuration on the adapter which
> asks for a certain voltage from the mobo regulator. I had to learn the
> jumper configs, that's all. The info provided on the box appears to be
> just plain wrong. Asking in various forums, like this one, has
> provided little data.
>
>
> >On the CUSL2, if you go for one of the later BIOS, apparently
> >the Vcore is set to 1.7V, instead of the 1.5V that the Tualatin
> >requests. An older version of BIOS lets the voltage go to 1.5V.
> >Running at 1.7V would make the processor run hotter. That suggests
> >the BIOS thinks it is dealing with a Coppermine and in the usual
> >Asus way, is trying to prevent you from undervolting. My Google
> >searches don't show any solutions to this, other than backing off
> >the BIOS version.
>
> I've had this experience with the 370gu, right. The thing is that with
> backing off on the bios, you lose voltage configs in the bios and
> you're stuck at 1.5v. Good for some folks, maybe bad for an overclock.
>
> The Lin-lIn and the 370gu from Upgradeware are really two different
> animals. Technically I can't say why. But with the Lin-Lin you can
> select your voltage. Only you need a map. The Lin-Lin is also cheaper,
> however not for the faint of heart.
>
> Another thing is that the upgradeware adapter is kind of permanent in
> the sense that the fit of the cpu into the adaptor is so tight that
> some folks have bent pins on removal. I'm leaving my celeron in the
> 370gu for life.
>
> >Maybe if you try disabling
> >Jumperless operation, and use the jumpers on the board to set
> >things up, the BIOS will let the processor set the voltage.
>
> this could be true, I haven't done it, though.
>
>
> >I hope it isn't fried...
>
> No, not fried. It's running fine. I'm booting at 1.6v at 1.520ghz now
> with the celeron 1.3.
>
> check out the last few posts of this thread that I am adding info to
> at:
>
> http://www.bp6.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=10558#10558
>
> cheers, eric

If you really need to understand it, get an ohmmeter, and trace which
jumper goes to which VID pin.

Page 57 of this doc shows a pin side view of the Tualatin. There are
five VID pins, VID3,VID2,VID1,VID0,VID25mV at positions
AJ37,AL37,AM36,AL35,AK36. The voltage table is shown on page 20.

http://support.intel.com/design/cele...s/29859604.pdf

A Coppermine Celeron datasheet is here. The pin side view is on
page 97. You will notice that the VID pinouts are the same, except
a Coppermine has a fixed value of VSS where VID25mV is on the Tualatin.
The voltage table is on page 20.

ftp://download.intel.com/design/cele...s/24365820.pdf

Since the Lin-Lin will have a Coppermine pinout on the bottom, you
will only have VID3..VID0 to trace to the four jumpers. The voltage
values start at 1.30 and advance in steps of 0.05. The Tualatin
has an absolute max of 1.75 volts, so this means only the first
10 values in the 24365820 table are usable without damaging the
Tualatin.

So, all you have to do is trace the four VID pins to the jumper
pins, and then make your own table of 10 values. Remove the jumpers
and find which of the two pins on a jumper option connects to one of
the four VID pins. Do this with no processor in the adapter. The
Tualatins I've seen normally use 1.5V or so, but consulting
processorfinder.intel.com will give you the exact numbers for
each SSPEC. Select "Celeron", then 100MHz bus and FCPGA2 for a
listing. The server versions are probably listed under
"Pentium III", then 133MHz bus and FCPGA2.

HTH,
Paul

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:30:34 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) (Paul) wrote:
>
>
> check out the last few posts of this thread that I am adding info to
> at:
>
> http://www.bp6.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=10558#10558
>
> cheers, eric

I don't think it is the chipset. The VID jumpers on your adapter
(or the pins on the bottom of the processor) give values to set
the voltage, but the "jumperfree" motherboards intercept these
signals, and use some GPIO pins on the Super I/O chip to set
the VID voltage by way of the BIOS. If the BIOS code is brain
dead, you could get the BIOS applying a setting which is
inappropriate for the processor in question. That is why you
need to find a method that prevents the BIOS from messing around.
I'm guessing that is why the results are inconsistent. Otherwise
the one setting of 1.5V would be "good for all".

---------- -------- ---------------
|processor|---|jumper |-------+------------|Vcore regulator
|VID pins |---|override|---------+----------|chip
---------- -------- | | ---------------
| |
-----------
| SuperI/O |
| overrides |
| VID |
-----------
^ ^
| |
BIOS programming

BTW: The diagram above is what I traced down on my TUA266 board.
Resistors of various strengths are used to allow the chain of
overrides to work, but some of the circuit is inaccessable to me,
as it is underneath sockets and the like.

HTH,
Paul

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:58:06 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) (Paul) wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>If you really need to understand it, get an ohmmeter, and trace which
>jumper goes to which VID pin.

Ok, going...

>Page 57 of this doc shows a pin side view of the Tualatin. There are
>five VID pins, VID3,VID2,VID1,VID0,VID25mV at positions
>AJ37,AL37,AM36,AL35,AK36. The voltage table is shown on page 20.
>
>http://support.intel.com/design/cele...s/29859604.pdf

right


>A Coppermine Celeron datasheet is here. The pin side view is on
>page 97. You will notice that the VID pinouts are the same, except
>a Coppermine has a fixed value of VSS where VID25mV is on the Tualatin.
>The voltage table is on page 20.


got it...

>ftp://download.intel.com/design/cele...s/24365820.pdf


>Since the Lin-Lin will have a Coppermine pinout on the bottom, you
>will only have VID3..VID0 to trace to the four jumpers.


Ok, here's where the language loses me, the lin-lin has 18 contact
points that the jumpers can fit over laid out 9 to a side with an "a
side" and a "b side".

>The voltage
>values start at 1.30 and advance in steps of 0.05. The Tualatin
>has an absolute max of 1.75 volts, so this means only the first
>10 values in the 24365820 table are usable without damaging the
>Tualatin.

The "24365820 table" loses me, I don't know what this refers to. Is
this jargon for something...?

>So, all you have to do is trace the four VID pins to the jumper
>pins, and then make your own table of 10 values. Remove the jumpers
>and find which of the two pins on a jumper option connects to one of
>the four VID pins. Do this with no processor in the adapter.

Ok, done, although I had to grow a couple of more hands to actually
carry it out.

here's what I get:


a1 didn't appear to have any correspondence
a2 vid1
a3 vid1
a4 vss
a5 vid2
a6 vid2
a7 vss
a8 vid0
a9 vid0

b1 didn't appear to have any correspondence
b2 vid3
b3 vid3
b4 vss
b5 bsel0
b6 tms
v7 vss
v8 bsel1
b9 vss

which gives me this:

no jumpers at a1 thru b3 gives 1.30V

a8-a9 1.35V
a2-a3 1.40V
a2-a3 a8-a9 1.45V
a5-a6 1.50V
a5-a6 a8-a9 1.55V
a2-a3 a5-a6 1.60V
a2-a3 a5-a6 a8-a9 1.65V
b2-b3 1.70V
a8-a9 b2-b3 1.75V
a2-a3 b2-b3 1.80V
a2-a3 a8-a9 b2-b3 1.85V
a4-a5 b2-b3 1.90V
a8-a9 b2-b3 1.95V
a2-a3 a5-a6 b2-b3 2.00V
a2-a3 a5-a6 a8-a9 b2-b3 2.05V

Kind of confirms the japanese website. Only strangeness is that I do
not boot at the 1.5 settings.

>The
>Tualatins I've seen normally use 1.5V or so,

yeah, 1.5 or 1.52v.

thanks so much paul for teaching me new tricks, i would never have
done this on my own.

regards, eric

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 17:58:06 -0500, (E-Mail Removed) (Paul) wrote:
>
> >In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
> >If you really need to understand it, get an ohmmeter, and trace which
> >jumper goes to which VID pin.
>
> Ok, going...
<<snip>>

> The "24365820 table" loses me, I don't know what this refers to. Is
> this jargon for something...?

I was referring to the 24365820.pdf document from Intel, page 20.

>
<<snip>>
>
> a1 didn't appear to have any correspondence
> a2 vid1
> a3 vid1
> a4 vss
> a5 vid2
> a6 vid2
> a7 vss
> a8 vid0
> a9 vid0
>
> b1 didn't appear to have any correspondence
> b2 vid3
> b3 vid3
> b4 vss
> b5 bsel0
> b6 tms
> v7 vss
> v8 bsel1
> b9 vss

First off, "tms" cannot be on there, because "tms" is part of the JTAG
test chain, and has nothing to do with configuring a processor like
those other jumpers.

Here is my hypothesis:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on the signals you are finding, there are six signals that Lin-Lin
are trying to control. They are VID3, VID2, VID1, VID0 to set the
voltage, and BSEL1,BSEL0 to set the FSB frequency. Inside the processor,
these signals are either open circuit (to represent a logic 1) or shorted
to VSS (to represent a logic 0). An external pullup resistor is used to
make the logic 1 voltage level. So, what Lin-Lin has to do with a group
of three pins, is either pass the original signal untouched, or ground
the signal to VSS. In the figure below, a group of three header pins is
denoted as A,B,C and the group of three pins is repeated six times for
a total of 18 pins.

Socket top VCC
Processor | / | |
Option | / Socket bottom | / Pullup
| / \ | \ Resistor
Open CCT x | | | | /
| v v | | Vcore
x-----x-----------A B-------x-----x---------Regulator
| |
VSS x | C VSS |

1) To pass the processor defaults, connect A to B
2) To force a signal to logic 1, use no jumper. The pullup resistor
will make a logic 1.
3) To force a signal to logic 0, connect B to C.

In a group of three pins, the middle pin must be pin B in the figure
above, so the jumper can either pivot to A (to pass the default value)
or pivot to C (to force a logic 0). Pin A goes to the socket hole on
top of the adapter, while Pin B goes to the pin on the bottom of the
socket. C goes to VSS.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> which gives me this:
>
> no jumpers at a1 thru b3 gives 1.30V
>
> a8-a9 1.35V
> a2-a3 1.40V
> a2-a3 a8-a9 1.45V
> a5-a6 1.50V
> a5-a6 a8-a9 1.55V
> a2-a3 a5-a6 1.60V
> a2-a3 a5-a6 a8-a9 1.65V
> b2-b3 1.70V
> a8-a9 b2-b3 1.75V
> a2-a3 b2-b3 1.80V
> a2-a3 a8-a9 b2-b3 1.85V
> a4-a5 b2-b3 1.90V
> a8-a9 b2-b3 1.95V
> a2-a3 a5-a6 b2-b3 2.00V
> a2-a3 a5-a6 a8-a9 b2-b3 2.05V
>
> Kind of confirms the japanese website. Only strangeness is that I do
> not boot at the 1.5 settings.
>
> >The
> >Tualatins I've seen normally use 1.5V or so,
>
> yeah, 1.5 or 1.52v.
>
> thanks so much paul for teaching me new tricks, i would never have
> done this on my own.
>
> regards, eric

What was BSEL set to when you tried 1.5V ?

BSEL1 BSEL0
0 0 66 MHz see reference (a)
0 1 100 MHz see reference (b)
1 0 Reserved
1 1 133 MHz see reference (c)

a) ftp://download.intel.com/design/cele...s/24365820.pdf (pg.23)
b) http://support.intel.com/design/cele...s/29859604.pdf (pg.24)
c) ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pent...s/24965704.pdf (pg.26)

I don't have an answer for why it didn't boot, other than the BIOS
screwing around. On a "JumperFree" board, the BIOS first reads the
values of the signals (by putting some GPIO signals into input mode),
and then drives out any value it wants by putting the GPIO signals
into output mode. There are other resistors in the circuit, to prevent
the GPIO from getting burnt by a processor shorting a signal to VSS.
But ultimately, the GPIO has the strongest influence on the final
value used by the voltage regulator. Maybe the BIOS runs first by using
the processor assigned VID values, then after processor identification
is complete, it drives out the value it wants - Asus is known for not
allowing undervolting on processors, and if the processor is
misidentified, this could be a strange voltage.

HTH,
Paul