I have only just got into this, so I may be way off track, but it
appears to me that the whole approach to web processing nowdays is a
dog's breakfast.



We have html, javascript and c# et al all jumbled together on the client
and server, all trying to interact with each other to produce what in
many cases is a fairly trivial result. It is no wonder that there are a
considerable number of sites that either do not work properly (ie crash)
or are extremely slow.



The basic problem, in my opinion, seems to be that we are trying to
shoehorn modern processing requirements into a 20 year old technology.
Isn't it about time the old browser concept was thrown away and replaced
with something that reflects current needs ?



Of course, don't expect me to design it.

Hello Ian,

I'll be the first one to say it (at least here in this thread)... The way we program for the web is a hodge-pode of technologies that were each developed to sit on top of something that was not initially designed to have something sit on top of it. When Tim Berners-Lee created HTML (and the WWW), he didn't envision B2B and eCommerce. He didn't know that banking and utility grids would be powered by the Internet. He simply was looking for a way to better describe the semantics and presentation of text based documents being deliverd over the Internet.

Then came scripting to sit on top of the HTML, then stylesheets to sit on top HTML, but be accessible to the HTML and the scripts.

Next came server-side programming to take up the slack that client-side programming couldn't or shouldn't do.

Then XML and its' whole universe of technologies.

Of course, I haven't mentioned the many proprietary technologies that have come (and some gone) that augment the non-proprietary technologies.

So yes, web developers need to know a lot about a lot of different things and how they all fit together properly.

Having said that, some attempts have been made to try and condense the mix. XHTML being a very good example.

But, I would say to you that working on a web application that contains HTML, JavaScript, CSS, XML and server-side code can certainly seem like a "jumbled" mess at first, but when properly written, it doesn't come across that way. If you look at each peice as just one ingredient in the soup and understand what that ingredient's job is, the picture gets much clearer.

It will take time, so be patient.

Good luck!
"Ian Semmel" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:8A2BDBA81607490AB6513232CEC24463@DIMITY...
I have only just got into this, so I may be way off track, but it appears to me that the whole approach to web processing nowdays is a dog's breakfast.



We have html, javascript and c# et al all jumbled together on the client and server, all trying to interact with each other to produce what in many cases is a fairly trivial result. It is no wonder that there are a considerable number of sites that either do not work properly (ie crash) or are extremely slow.



The basic problem, in my opinion, seems to be that we are trying to shoehorn modern processing requirements into a 20 year old technology. Isn't it about time the old browser concept was thrown away and replaced with something that reflects current needs ?



Of course, don't expect me to design it.

Badly designed or underperforming sites can only be blamed on poor designers, and poor coders. Of course there's always the argument that some designers/coders have to compromise and performance sometimes has to suffer - such is life!

The browser concept is kind of being thrown away with Ajax, Silverlight, Flash etc. creating much more interactive and real-time type applications. The browser as a presentation medium is just a container for whatever the developer choses to throw at it. Of course, you do need a plethora of skills to work on modern web developments - but then if it was easy everyone would be doing it and who'd pay your wages then?


Regards

John Timney (MVP)
http://www.johntimney.com
http://www.johntimney.com/blog
"Ian Semmel" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:8A2BDBA81607490AB6513232CEC24463@DIMITY...
I have only just got into this, so I may be way off track, but it appears to me that the whole approach to web processing nowdays is a dog's breakfast.



We have html, javascript and c# et al all jumbled together on the client and server, all trying to interact with each other to produce what in many cases is a fairly trivial result. It is no wonder that there are a considerable number of sites that either do not work properly (ie crash) or are extremely slow.



The basic problem, in my opinion, seems to be that we are trying to shoehorn modern processing requirements into a 20 year old technology. Isn't it about time the old browser concept was thrown away and replaced with something that reflects current needs ?



Of course, don't expect me to design it.

Its my understanding Microsoft will begin supporting MVC architecture in VS2008 which seems to be a good start.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher ATTHEDOMAIN metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

"Ian Semmel" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:8A2BDBA81607490AB6513232CEC24463@DIMITY...
I have only just got into this, so I may be way off track, but it appears to me that the whole approach to web processing nowdays is a dog's breakfast.



We have html, javascript and c# et al all jumbled together on the client and server, all trying to interact with each other to produce what in many cases is a fairly trivial result. It is no wonder that there are a considerable number of sites that either do not work properly (ie crash) or are extremely slow.



The basic problem, in my opinion, seems to be that we are trying to shoehorn modern processing requirements into a 20 year old technology. Isn't it about time the old browser concept was thrown away and replaced with something that reflects current needs ?



Of course, don't expect me to design it.