Not Apple's time capsule.

My University is putting together a time capsule that will be opened in
a loooooooooong time. Probably 50 to 100 years.
Are those "archival quality" blu-ray discs a rip off or are they
genuinely more reliable for the super long term?

Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

> Not Apple's time capsule.

> My University is putting together a time capsule that will be
> opened in a loooooooooong time. Probably 50 to 100 years.

> Are those "archival quality" blu-ray discs a rip off or are
> they genuinely more reliable for the super long term?

No one actually knows, we havent tried it yet.

It would be safer to include all of archive quality CDs, DVDs,
and bluerays too and more than one brand of each type too.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Rod Speed <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>> Not Apple's time capsule.
>
>> My University is putting together a time capsule that will be
>> opened in a loooooooooong time. Probably 50 to 100 years.
>
>> Are those "archival quality" blu-ray discs a rip off or are
>> they genuinely more reliable for the super long term?
>
>No one actually knows, we havent tried it yet.
>
>It would be safer to include all of archive quality CDs, DVDs,
>and bluerays too and more than one brand of each type too.

Been reading message threads on MyCE (formerly CDFreaks) where recorded
Ritek BD-R became unreadable in a matter of months. This is usually one of
the recommended brands.

On the other hand, Millenniata M-Disc DVD+R blanks are supposed to last
hundreds of years longer than ther average user would need them to.

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:58:46 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) (Mike S.)
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Been reading message threads on MyCE (formerly CDFreaks) where recorded
>Ritek BD-R became unreadable in a matter of months. This is usually one of
>the recommended brands.
>
>On the other hand, Millenniata M-Disc DVD+R blanks are supposed to last
>hundreds of years longer than ther average user would need them to.

Obviously Ritek are using the wrong dye:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Lascaux_04.jpg

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Not Apple's time capsule.

> My University is putting together a time capsule that will be opened in
> a loooooooooong time. Probably 50 to 100 years.
> Are those "archival quality" blu-ray discs a rip off or are they
> genuinely more reliable for the super long term?

BDs are generally not archival media. Even "archival grade"
are not. Use high-quality paper and single sided laser-printing.
Include description of the data format, whoch can, e.g. be a 2D barcode.
That it your only reasonable option. After all, in order to
read things, you need to have a reader as well, not just the medium.
Quite possibly BD readers will be unavailable in 50-100 years.

Arno
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

Franc Zabkar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:58:46 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) (Mike S.)
> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>>Been reading message threads on MyCE (formerly CDFreaks) where recorded
>>Ritek BD-R became unreadable in a matter of months. This is usually one of
>>the recommended brands.
>>
>>On the other hand, Millenniata M-Disc DVD+R blanks are supposed to last
>>hundreds of years longer than ther average user would need them to.

These "hundresds of years" figures are nonsense. They only apply
to perfect storage conditions _and_ rather shaky long-term aging models.
The only medium to ever achive 50-80 years _in_ _practice_ is MOD,
and that went out of fashion because nobody wanted to pay for
reliability. Even archival grade tape is only good for something
around 30 years. With consumer-grade media, even 10 years under real
conditions is a stretch for data. For video you may be able to get
15-20 years with some degradation.

Arnop
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Franc Zabkar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:58:46 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) (Mike S.)
>put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>Been reading message threads on MyCE (formerly CDFreaks) where recorded
>>Ritek BD-R became unreadable in a matter of months. This is usually one of
>>the recommended brands.
>>
>>On the other hand, Millenniata M-Disc DVD+R blanks are supposed to last
>>hundreds of years longer than ther average user would need them to.
>
>Obviously Ritek are using the wrong dye:
>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Lascaux_04.jpg

Perhaps, but people want BD videos of things other than bison, too.

On 4/25/12 7:40 AM, Arno wrote:
> Justin<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Not Apple's time capsule.
>
>> My University is putting together a time capsule that will be opened in
>> a loooooooooong time. Probably 50 to 100 years.
>> Are those "archival quality" blu-ray discs a rip off or are they
>> genuinely more reliable for the super long term?
>
> BDs are generally not archival media. Even "archival grade"
> are not. Use high-quality paper and single sided laser-printing.
> Include description of the data format, whoch can, e.g. be a 2D barcode.
> That it your only reasonable option. After all, in order to
> read things, you need to have a reader as well, not just the medium.
> Quite possibly BD readers will be unavailable in 50-100 years.
>
> Arno

True.
But in 100 years, just as we know of a Victrola they will know of those
ancient BDs.
Even today with specialized equipment we have the ability to playback
and thus record sounds from a early 1900's phonograph. I'm going to
assume that in a century somebody somewhere will know what to do with a BD.
In other news, the time capsule itself is basically a stainless steel
egg to be put in a cornerstone of a building being built here on the
campus. I believe it will be hermetically sealed. One of the chemistry
professors wants to fill it with an inert gas.

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Arno <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Franc Zabkar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:58:46 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) (Mike S.)
>> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
>>>Been reading message threads on MyCE (formerly CDFreaks) where recorded
>>>Ritek BD-R became unreadable in a matter of months. This is usually one of
>>>the recommended brands.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, Millenniata M-Disc DVD+R blanks are supposed to last
>>>hundreds of years longer than ther average user would need them to.
>
>These "hundresds of years" figures are nonsense. They only apply
>to perfect storage conditions _and_ rather shaky long-term aging models.
>The only medium to ever achive 50-80 years _in_ _practice_ is MOD,
>and that went out of fashion because nobody wanted to pay for
>reliability. Even archival grade tape is only good for something
>around 30 years. With consumer-grade media, even 10 years under real
>conditions is a stretch for data. For video you may be able to get
>15-20 years with some degradation.

Of course, accelerated aging tests just give estimates; but still, the
military testing on M-Disc vs conventional dye-based media was pretty
impressive. Under conditions that literally destroyed the other discs, the
Millenniata disc came out totally readable and unscathed.

http://millenniata.com/wp-content/up...Lake-Study.pdf

Mike S. <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Arno <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>Franc Zabkar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:58:46 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) (Mike S.)
>>> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>>>Been reading message threads on MyCE (formerly CDFreaks) where recorded
>>>>Ritek BD-R became unreadable in a matter of months. This is usually one of
>>>>the recommended brands.
>>>>
>>>>On the other hand, Millenniata M-Disc DVD+R blanks are supposed to last
>>>>hundreds of years longer than ther average user would need them to.
>>
>>These "hundresds of years" figures are nonsense. They only apply
>>to perfect storage conditions _and_ rather shaky long-term aging models.
>>The only medium to ever achive 50-80 years _in_ _practice_ is MOD,
>>and that went out of fashion because nobody wanted to pay for
>>reliability. Even archival grade tape is only good for something
>>around 30 years. With consumer-grade media, even 10 years under real
>>conditions is a stretch for data. For video you may be able to get
>>15-20 years with some degradation.

> Of course, accelerated aging tests just give estimates; but still, the
> military testing on M-Disc vs conventional dye-based media was pretty
> impressive. Under conditions that literally destroyed the other discs, the
> Millenniata disc came out totally readable and unscathed.

> http://millenniata.com/wp-content/up...Lake-Study.pdf

It may just have a non-standard agein profile. And how are they
ensuring that drives remain available?

Also, I do not think these are the reight people to test storage
media, thay likely do not have the background. If this was done,
say, by storage experts at Phillips, I would trust this figures
more, as these people are competent and careful in their estimations.

Arno
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans