I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
$55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.

johns

"johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.

The 9800 Pro is no slouch of a card. To see great improvement
you'd need to upgrade to an X800 at a minimum, or preferably
an X850/X1800/X1900 etc.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of Nvidia's 6800's though.
It just wasn't the proper upgrade for you, coming from an already
great card. I guarantee you'd feel differently about Nvidia if you
tried a 7800GT :-)

Also, I agree with you 100% about Tom's Hardware. He and his
staff push whatever company is buying them the most free lunches
and product, so much of what's on his site is very misleading.

Not nearly as misleading as "...NVIDIA 6800 is a POS." I'll soon be
upgrading my 9800PRO to a 6800 or 7800GS because everything I have read
indicates either will be a huge improvement. The 9800PRO was a great card
but it's a bit long in the tooth and it surely can't run close to either of
the nVidia cards. However, it is possible that all the tests, benchmarks,
etc. I have accessed have been mistaken. You may save me from an expensive
mistake if you would post some of the info upon which you base your opinion.

"Mark C." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:nVWKf.1703$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
>> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
>> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
>> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
>> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
>> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
>> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
>> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
>> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
>> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
>> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
>> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
>> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
>> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
>> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
>> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
>> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
>
> The 9800 Pro is no slouch of a card. To see great improvement
> you'd need to upgrade to an X800 at a minimum, or preferably
> an X850/X1800/X1900 etc.
>
> I can't say I agree with your assessment of Nvidia's 6800's though.
> It just wasn't the proper upgrade for you, coming from an already
> great card. I guarantee you'd feel differently about Nvidia if you
> tried a 7800GT :-)
>
> Also, I agree with you 100% about Tom's Hardware. He and his
> staff push whatever company is buying them the most free lunches
> and product, so much of what's on his site is very misleading.
>
>

"Ed Forsythe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:bPadndEzOc32t2DeRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Not nearly as misleading as "...NVIDIA 6800 is a POS." I'll soon be
> upgrading my 9800PRO to a 6800 or 7800GS because everything I have read
> indicates either will be a huge improvement. The 9800PRO was a great card
> but it's a bit long in the tooth and it surely can't run close to either of
> the nVidia cards. However, it is possible that all the tests, benchmarks,
> etc. I have accessed have been mistaken. You may save me from an expensive
> mistake if you would post some of the info upon which you base your opinion.

The peak bandwidth of a stock 6800 (not GT/Ultra/GS, which is the
card the OP was talking about) is 22.4GB/s, while the 9800 Pro's is
21.8GB/s.

The 9800 Pro has a much faster core (380MHz vs. 325) and only
slightly slower memory (680MHz vs. 700).

The 6800 does have 12 pixel pipelines instead of the 9800's 8, which
accounts for its better pixel fillrate. Still, someone upgrading from one
to the other probably wouldn't see enough difference to justify the cost
of a 6800.

> "Mark C." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:nVWKf.1703$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
> >> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
> >> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
> >> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
> >> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
> >> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
> >> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
> >> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
> >> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
> >> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
> >> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
> >> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
> >> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
> >> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
> >> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
> >> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
> >> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
> >
> > The 9800 Pro is no slouch of a card. To see great improvement
> > you'd need to upgrade to an X800 at a minimum, or preferably
> > an X850/X1800/X1900 etc.
> >
> > I can't say I agree with your assessment of Nvidia's 6800's though.
> > It just wasn't the proper upgrade for you, coming from an already
> > great card. I guarantee you'd feel differently about Nvidia if you
> > tried a 7800GT :-)
> >
> > Also, I agree with you 100% about Tom's Hardware. He and his
> > staff push whatever company is buying them the most free lunches
> > and product, so much of what's on his site is very misleading.
> >
> >
>
>

The nVidia driver enables HDR and SM3.0 out of nowhere, and
for no reason at all. That will overwhelm any 6800 on the market
and will generate crashes and artifacts in most games .. esp
Far Cry. The drivers are a joke. Without Coolbits and Rivatuner
to help compensate, most games require patching to run on
an nVidia card. Also, nVidia is in a price and naming war with
ATI, and they are bringing crippled cards on the market, and
you don't know what you are getting when you buy one until
you have paid for it, and discover the severe limitations ..
like no power connector, and you put in in a mobo without
the 24 pin psupply connector that feeds power to the card.
This kind of crap is just inexcusable. And then when you
finally get a game working ... you will see clearly that the
ATI cards show a lot more dynamic graphics on the screen.
I saw that all over Far Cry ... flickering fire lights ... none
with the nVidia cards. High detail in walls and ground ??
Again none of that with the nVidia cards. AND YET, the
nVidia cards benched much higher than my 9800 in tests
like 3DMark2100. Just look like ****, is all ... jagged lines
.... AA won't run on an nVidia card because it is incompatible
with HDR which will auto start if you are not careful.

johns

I just went from a eVGA 6600Gt (no problems with it) to a EVGA 7800GS CO.
And boy was there a big difference ! If you have AGP the new 7800GS CO are
the cards to get. The graphics are so amazing, that I am seeing things on
games I did not even know where there before !


"johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
>
> johns
>

Hi Mark,
This is just one of the 6800GS cards I'm considering:
BFG 6800GS Core = 370MHz (excellent possibility of clocking to 400+)
Memory = 1050MHz (Should clock to 1200+)
Bandwidth = 33.6 GB/s
Dual RamDac 400MHz

9800Pro (My Card) 6800GS 7800GS
3DMark 03 5783 10,000 11,400
3DMark 05 2695 4321 5393
3DMark 06 680 1900+? 2717
The 6800 & 7800GS mark are from Guru of 3D and they are about the same as
other sites I've checked. BTW, My 9800 PRO/128 memory speed is 338MHz.

Hmm - Although the 6800GS would be a significant improvement, it looks as
though I'm going to spend the extra $100 and go for the *7800GS* @$299
That should hold me comfortably for at least a year. Then I'll do a
complete upgrade - PCIX MB, CPU, DDR2 RAM, PCIX Vid card. All the rest of
my stuff is OK to start with after that I'll be able to upgrade
incrementally. Thanks for leading me to more research ;-)

"Mark C." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:SJbLf.2633$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Ed Forsythe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:bPadndEzOc32t2DeRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Not nearly as misleading as "...NVIDIA 6800 is a POS." I'll soon be
>> upgrading my 9800PRO to a 6800 or 7800GS because everything I have read
>> indicates either will be a huge improvement. The 9800PRO was a great
>> card
>> but it's a bit long in the tooth and it surely can't run close to either
>> of
>> the nVidia cards. However, it is possible that all the tests,
>> benchmarks,
>> etc. I have accessed have been mistaken. You may save me from an
>> expensive
>> mistake if you would post some of the info upon which you base your
>> opinion.
>
> The peak bandwidth of a stock 6800 (not GT/Ultra/GS, which is the
> card the OP was talking about) is 22.4GB/s, while the 9800 Pro's is
> 21.8GB/s.
>
> The 9800 Pro has a much faster core (380MHz vs. 325) and only
> slightly slower memory (680MHz vs. 700).
>
> The 6800 does have 12 pixel pipelines instead of the 9800's 8, which
> accounts for its better pixel fillrate. Still, someone upgrading from one
> to the other probably wouldn't see enough difference to justify the cost
> of a 6800.
>
>> "Mark C." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:nVWKf.1703$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > "johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> >> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
>> >> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
>> >> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
>> >> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
>> >> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
>> >> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
>> >> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
>> >> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
>> >> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
>> >> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
>> >> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
>> >> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
>> >> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
>> >> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
>> >> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
>> >> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
>> >> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
>> >
>> > The 9800 Pro is no slouch of a card. To see great improvement
>> > you'd need to upgrade to an X800 at a minimum, or preferably
>> > an X850/X1800/X1900 etc.
>> >
>> > I can't say I agree with your assessment of Nvidia's 6800's though.
>> > It just wasn't the proper upgrade for you, coming from an already
>> > great card. I guarantee you'd feel differently about Nvidia if you
>> > tried a 7800GT :-)
>> >
>> > Also, I agree with you 100% about Tom's Hardware. He and his
>> > staff push whatever company is buying them the most free lunches
>> > and product, so much of what's on his site is very misleading.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

Glad you said that Spidious, 'cause that's where I'm going. BTW, I.ve had
several conversations with eVGA tech support and I've been impressed - a
bunch of nice guys and they're open 24/7! Now that I've made my card
decision I'm inclined to favor eVGA slightly over XFX and BFG. Sure would
like to hear from others.

"Spidious" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ztpLf.819100$xm3.793314@attbi_s21...
>I just went from a eVGA 6600Gt (no problems with it) to a EVGA 7800GS CO.
>And boy was there a big difference ! If you have AGP the new 7800GS CO are
>the cards to get. The graphics are so amazing, that I am seeing things on
>games I did not even know where there before !
>
>
> "johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
>> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
>> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
>> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
>> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
>> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
>> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
>> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
>> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
>> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
>> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
>> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
>> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
>> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
>> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
>> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
>> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
>>
>> johns
>>
>
>

"johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> The nVidia driver enables HDR and SM3.0 out of nowhere, and
> for no reason at all. That will overwhelm any 6800 on the market
> and will generate crashes and artifacts in most games .. esp
> Far Cry. The drivers are a joke.

If NV's drivers are a joke, ATI's are downright hysterical.

Be sure download the coolbits forceware at
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=815 so that you can overclock
it.
There are two choices manual and automatic.
To be save I would recommend the automatic setting !


"Ed Forsythe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Glad you said that Spidious, 'cause that's where I'm going. BTW, I.ve
> had several conversations with eVGA tech support and I've been impressed -
> a bunch of nice guys and they're open 24/7! Now that I've made my card
> decision I'm inclined to favor eVGA slightly over XFX and BFG. Sure would
> like to hear from others.
>
> "Spidious" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ztpLf.819100$xm3.793314@attbi_s21...
>>I just went from a eVGA 6600Gt (no problems with it) to a EVGA 7800GS CO.
>>And boy was there a big difference ! If you have AGP the new 7800GS CO are
>>the cards to get. The graphics are so amazing, that I am seeing things on
>>games I did not even know where there before !
>>
>>
>> "johns" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I'm building a new game box, and looking for a nice upgrade
>>> video card. The box will be based on the AMD 64 Athlon 3800+
>>> and pci-e video card. Over Christmas I bought one video card,
>>> and tested another I had at work ... both were nVidia 6800s.
>>> I proved to myself that the nVidia 6800 is a POS, and that
>>> is all there is too it. I returned the one I bought and paid a
>>> $55 restocking fee ( it was an XFX 6800, and it was a royal
>>> piece of crap ). The "other" one was made by eVGA, and
>>> it was only a little bit better. My 9800 Pro beat the tar out
>>> of both cards. So, I wonder, before I guess at which card
>>> to try next ... or be overwhelmed by all the lies and hype
>>> from people who have bought these junkers ... is there
>>> a vendor who will let me get in a couple of cards and test
>>> them before I buy one? If not, does anybody know of an
>>> honest video card reviewer ? So far all of the web sites
>>> I've checked hedge their comments to mislead the buyer.
>>> One of the worst being Tom's Hardware.
>>>
>>> johns
>>>
>>
>>
>
>