After reading this...

"...Adobe is at an interesting crossroads. In terms of online media, the
company is on top of the world, with incredibly high adoption rates of the
Flash standard. But for mobile devices and systems in the living room, the
company is furiously trying to expand its market, and is doing a pretty good
job. Flash is finding its way onto Connected TVs. Most smartphones will be
supporting AIR 2.0 and Flash 10.1 in the next 18 months. Apple, the one
company seemingly resisting Adobe's siren call, is still supported with
Creative Suite 5's ability to export a flash file as an iPhone app. As these
partnerships hit the market, Flash may be the first true three-screen
development platform for gaming..."

The really really big question being "do something now like learn Flash or
wait years for Microsoft to catch up as they have with mobile and keep
learning Silverlight?" Have other .NET developers chosen Flash?

It just makes me so damn nervous I don't even want to try to keep up with
Blend or Silverlight development knowing it MIGHT BE the long-term choice
that finally gets around to being supported when I need to move now if I
want to be involved with the window of opportunity for HDTV developers; IMO
the next big thing.

What was it like learning Flash and how well does it integrate with ASP.NET
C# Web Forms development skills?

We have ZERO ability to reach iPhone customers.
We have ZERO ability to reach anybody on the HDTV.
We now have Windows Mobile 7 that everybody else had 2-3 years ago so all
Microsoft has done is catch up not innovate or leap frog.

Oh woe is me.

"Hillbilly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> After reading this...
>
> "...Adobe is at an interesting crossroads. In terms of online media, the
> company is on top of the world, with incredibly high adoption rates of the
> Flash standard. But for mobile devices and systems in the living room, the
> company is furiously trying to expand its market, and is doing a pretty
> good job. Flash is finding its way onto Connected TVs. Most smartphones
> will be supporting AIR 2.0 and Flash 10.1 in the next 18 months. Apple,
> the one company seemingly resisting Adobe's siren call, is still supported
> with Creative Suite 5's ability to export a flash file as an iPhone app.
> As these partnerships hit the market, Flash may be the first true
> three-screen development platform for gaming..."
>
> The really really big question being "do something now like learn Flash or
> wait years for Microsoft to catch up as they have with mobile and keep
> learning Silverlight?" Have other .NET developers chosen Flash?

So you are comparing a 3 year old technology against a 14 year old
technology and worried the 3 year old does not have enough adoption to stick
with it. Flash has a wide base and is now installed by default.

One of the really cool things about Silverlight is it has a great
programming model. Yes, Flash has Flex, but most people I see who are
serious about it build the middle tier in java or .NET. If Silverlight can
gain proper traction, it already has one programming paradigm for middle
tier and UI. Much better idea.

In many ways, Flash, through Flex, is playing catch up. You don't see it so
much as the install base for the non-proggie bits is large.

> It just makes me so damn nervous I don't even want to try to keep up with
> Blend or Silverlight development knowing it MIGHT BE the long-term choice
> that finally gets around to being supported when I need to move now if I
> want to be involved with the window of opportunity for HDTV developers;
> IMO the next big thing.

I think MS, in general, is making you nervous. And there is a history that
may warrant some of it. Silverlight is controlled by the same basic group as
the web stuff, so it is not going to be killed any time soon. The question
of install base? They had a bit of a black eye in the 1.0/2.0 time frame
with the media bits and lost a major implementer. We are past that point
now, so I am not afraid.

> What was it like learning Flash and how well does it integrate with
> ASP.NET C# Web Forms development skills?

It doesn't and it does. Flex Framework needs a backend to work at speeds
higher than turtle and .NET makes a good back end. I guess you can go with
any backend it can communicate with and Java would be another sane choice in
some instances. A quick google search should reveal if there are others. I
have done some Flex talking to .NET bits personally.

Flash, or more specifically, ActionScript, is a bit like many other
languages with braces. The method of making different methods is slightly
different and there is a better "global" story than .NET (although I am not
convinced that is good. The downside is having to work with the Flex
designer, which does not have the greatest debug tools in the world (coming
from VS, they really suck). There are some Flex to .NET projects out there.

--
Peace and Grace,
Greg

Twitter: @gbworld
Blog: http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com

************************************************
| Think outside the box! |
************************************************

Thanks for that tooling insight. I am worried about the fact that Microsoft
continues to ignore the two fastest changing market opportunities: mobile
which has all of the demand now and TV which Microsoft is also dragging
behind.

Let's also consider the trend that indicates and asserts "billions" of
connected devices of one type or another are emerging on the network.

For example as it pertains to what is clearly demonstrable I do not think
the Twitters, Facebooks or LinkedIns, MySpaces ad infinitum are being
developed using .NET. Aa time presses forward quicker and quicker there
seems to be less and less and less demand for whatever I or another .NET
colleague could provide because we are not on time and have only
incrementalist vaporware to offer IN THE HERE AND NOW.

Its the here and the now that is really starting to bug me and matter to me
in a big way. As you may remember I am no spring chicken and perhaps being
older like you ;-) I am pressed with a sense of urgency that seems only the
older and presumably wiser of us can actually watch pass by. Nobody has
built and nobody does build the next big thing using .NET because Baldmer
keeps us all 5 years behind and the next big thing happens before we even
get to take part.

Tooling aside, doesn't this make sense?

"Gregory A. Beamer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:52E8FBA2-0438-4EB1-9300-(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> "Hillbilly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> After reading this...
>>
>> "...Adobe is at an interesting crossroads. In terms of online media, the
>> company is on top of the world, with incredibly high adoption rates of
>> the Flash standard. But for mobile devices and systems in the living
>> room, the company is furiously trying to expand its market, and is doing
>> a pretty good job. Flash is finding its way onto Connected TVs. Most
>> smartphones will be supporting AIR 2.0 and Flash 10.1 in the next 18
>> months. Apple, the one company seemingly resisting Adobe's siren call, is
>> still supported with Creative Suite 5's ability to export a flash file as
>> an iPhone app. As these partnerships hit the market, Flash may be the
>> first true three-screen development platform for gaming..."
>>
>> The really really big question being "do something now like learn Flash
>> or wait years for Microsoft to catch up as they have with mobile and keep
>> learning Silverlight?" Have other .NET developers chosen Flash?
>
> So you are comparing a 3 year old technology against a 14 year old
> technology and worried the 3 year old does not have enough adoption to
> stick with it. Flash has a wide base and is now installed by default.
>
> One of the really cool things about Silverlight is it has a great
> programming model. Yes, Flash has Flex, but most people I see who are
> serious about it build the middle tier in java or .NET. If Silverlight can
> gain proper traction, it already has one programming paradigm for middle
> tier and UI. Much better idea.
>
> In many ways, Flash, through Flex, is playing catch up. You don't see it
> so much as the install base for the non-proggie bits is large.
>
>> It just makes me so damn nervous I don't even want to try to keep up with
>> Blend or Silverlight development knowing it MIGHT BE the long-term choice
>> that finally gets around to being supported when I need to move now if I
>> want to be involved with the window of opportunity for HDTV developers;
>> IMO the next big thing.
>
> I think MS, in general, is making you nervous. And there is a history that
> may warrant some of it. Silverlight is controlled by the same basic group
> as the web stuff, so it is not going to be killed any time soon. The
> question of install base? They had a bit of a black eye in the 1.0/2.0
> time frame with the media bits and lost a major implementer. We are past
> that point now, so I am not afraid.
>
>> What was it like learning Flash and how well does it integrate with
>> ASP.NET C# Web Forms development skills?
>
> It doesn't and it does. Flex Framework needs a backend to work at speeds
> higher than turtle and .NET makes a good back end. I guess you can go with
> any backend it can communicate with and Java would be another sane choice
> in some instances. A quick google search should reveal if there are
> others. I have done some Flex talking to .NET bits personally.
>
> Flash, or more specifically, ActionScript, is a bit like many other
> languages with braces. The method of making different methods is slightly
> different and there is a better "global" story than .NET (although I am
> not convinced that is good. The downside is having to work with the Flex
> designer, which does not have the greatest debug tools in the world
> (coming from VS, they really suck). There are some Flex to .NET projects
> out there.
>
> --
> Peace and Grace,
> Greg
>
> Twitter: @gbworld
> Blog: http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com
>
> ************************************************
> | Think outside the box! |
> ************************************************

We use flex in a website at my work place (only because the my predocessor
used it! and to be honest not my choice). But it uses a middle tier of .net
and to be honest the more and more I read about Adobe at the moment they are
a programmers nightmare with the security risks and bugs.

Just my 2pence worth

Simon


"Hillbilly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks for that tooling insight. I am worried about the fact that
> Microsoft continues to ignore the two fastest changing market
> opportunities: mobile which has all of the demand now and TV which
> Microsoft is also dragging behind.
>
> Let's also consider the trend that indicates and asserts "billions" of
> connected devices of one type or another are emerging on the network.
>
> For example as it pertains to what is clearly demonstrable I do not think
> the Twitters, Facebooks or LinkedIns, MySpaces ad infinitum are being
> developed using .NET. Aa time presses forward quicker and quicker there
> seems to be less and less and less demand for whatever I or another .NET
> colleague could provide because we are not on time and have only
> incrementalist vaporware to offer IN THE HERE AND NOW.
>
> Its the here and the now that is really starting to bug me and matter to
> me in a big way. As you may remember I am no spring chicken and perhaps
> being older like you ;-) I am pressed with a sense of urgency that seems
> only the older and presumably wiser of us can actually watch pass by.
> Nobody has built and nobody does build the next big thing using .NET
> because Baldmer keeps us all 5 years behind and the next big thing happens
> before we even get to take part.
>
> Tooling aside, doesn't this make sense?
>
> "Gregory A. Beamer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:52E8FBA2-0438-4EB1-9300-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>
>> "Hillbilly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> After reading this...
>>>
>>> "...Adobe is at an interesting crossroads. In terms of online media, the
>>> company is on top of the world, with incredibly high adoption rates of
>>> the Flash standard. But for mobile devices and systems in the living
>>> room, the company is furiously trying to expand its market, and is doing
>>> a pretty good job. Flash is finding its way onto Connected TVs. Most
>>> smartphones will be supporting AIR 2.0 and Flash 10.1 in the next 18
>>> months. Apple, the one company seemingly resisting Adobe's siren call,
>>> is still supported with Creative Suite 5's ability to export a flash
>>> file as an iPhone app. As these partnerships hit the market, Flash may
>>> be the first true three-screen development platform for gaming..."
>>>
>>> The really really big question being "do something now like learn Flash
>>> or wait years for Microsoft to catch up as they have with mobile and
>>> keep learning Silverlight?" Have other .NET developers chosen Flash?
>>
>> So you are comparing a 3 year old technology against a 14 year old
>> technology and worried the 3 year old does not have enough adoption to
>> stick with it. Flash has a wide base and is now installed by default.
>>
>> One of the really cool things about Silverlight is it has a great
>> programming model. Yes, Flash has Flex, but most people I see who are
>> serious about it build the middle tier in java or .NET. If Silverlight
>> can gain proper traction, it already has one programming paradigm for
>> middle tier and UI. Much better idea.
>>
>> In many ways, Flash, through Flex, is playing catch up. You don't see it
>> so much as the install base for the non-proggie bits is large.
>>
>>> It just makes me so damn nervous I don't even want to try to keep up
>>> with Blend or Silverlight development knowing it MIGHT BE the long-term
>>> choice that finally gets around to being supported when I need to move
>>> now if I want to be involved with the window of opportunity for HDTV
>>> developers; IMO the next big thing.
>>
>> I think MS, in general, is making you nervous. And there is a history
>> that may warrant some of it. Silverlight is controlled by the same basic
>> group as the web stuff, so it is not going to be killed any time soon.
>> The question of install base? They had a bit of a black eye in the
>> 1.0/2.0 time frame with the media bits and lost a major implementer. We
>> are past that point now, so I am not afraid.
>>
>>> What was it like learning Flash and how well does it integrate with
>>> ASP.NET C# Web Forms development skills?
>>
>> It doesn't and it does. Flex Framework needs a backend to work at speeds
>> higher than turtle and .NET makes a good back end. I guess you can go
>> with any backend it can communicate with and Java would be another sane
>> choice in some instances. A quick google search should reveal if there
>> are others. I have done some Flex talking to .NET bits personally.
>>
>> Flash, or more specifically, ActionScript, is a bit like many other
>> languages with braces. The method of making different methods is slightly
>> different and there is a better "global" story than .NET (although I am
>> not convinced that is good. The downside is having to work with the Flex
>> designer, which does not have the greatest debug tools in the world
>> (coming from VS, they really suck). There are some Flex to .NET projects
>> out there.
>>
>> --
>> Peace and Grace,
>> Greg
>>
>> Twitter: @gbworld
>> Blog: http://gregorybeamer.spaces.live.com
>>
>> ************************************************
>> | Think outside the box! |
>> ************************************************
>