I am doing a new pull in a buried 2" pvc pipe between two metal
buildings. approximately 130-150 feet with 3 90 degree elbows. BEcause
of the 90's I suppose I should use PLENUM rated cables (of either
type) since it's a little tougher and I don't want to knick it up

I am under the impression that the best way to do this is to run CAT5e
or CAT 6 and switch to FIBER at both ends.

OR, better just to run the entire run in FIBER. I know the costs are
higher for fiber materials and I have never terminated any yet in my
"career" as a network installer as I am an Electrical Contractor/
ELECTRICIAN who only does these things on a very limited basis, and
only for customers who understand this. In this case, for my Wifes
employer who is very limited in the money department and this is
mostly as a favor to her.

Awhile back, some may remember my questions about timeclocks on a
network for this same company......................

You guys were very helpful then.........maybe again you knowledgeable
types will come thru again


THANKS,

Roscoe

Roscoe Pendoscoe <MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com> writes:
>I am under the impression that the best way to do this is to run CAT5e
>or CAT 6 and switch to FIBER at both ends.

>OR, better just to run the entire run in FIBER. I know the costs are

The long run done in cheaper cable seems like a better option to me.
for optoisolation you're only going to need a meter or two (if that)
of fiber.

Have you considered an encrypted wireless solution?

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:07:06 -0400, Philip Lewis
<flip+(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Roscoe Pendoscoe <MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com> writes:
>>I am under the impression that the best way to do this is to run CAT5e
>>or CAT 6 and switch to FIBER at both ends.
>
>>OR, better just to run the entire run in FIBER. I know the costs are
>
>The long run done in cheaper cable seems like a better option to me.
>for optoisolation you're only going to need a meter or two (if that)
>of fiber.
>
>Have you considered an encrypted wireless solution?

Yes, I did in fact mention that to them and they are thinking about
it.

Thanks!

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com (Roscoe Pendoscoe) writes:
| I am doing a new pull in a buried 2" pvc pipe between two metal
| buildings. approximately 130-150 feet with 3 90 degree elbows.

What kind of elbows?

| BEcause
| of the 90's I suppose I should use PLENUM rated cables (of either
| type) since it's a little tougher and I don't want to knick it up
|
| I am under the impression that the best way to do this is to run CAT5e
| or CAT 6 and switch to FIBER at both ends.

Certainly this is better than no isolation at all, but the converters at
each end need power. The wall warts that run such things don't provide
great isolation, so while your network beyond the fiber will be safe (unless
you do something really stupid with pairs of wall warts the converters
themselves will be at risk. I had a ground strike that induced sufficient
current in a buried line to blow out the wall warts that powered the devices
at the ends. (This was not Ethernet.)

| OR, better just to run the entire run in FIBER.

Yes, that would be much better.

| I know the costs are
| higher for fiber materials

I think I paid about $150 to have a 300 foot duplex MM fiber cable made,
and you could probably do much better on eBay. Keep in mind that if you
run fiber all the way you probably only need two converters while if you
use a fiber link at each end of a wire run you probably need four. (If
the actual destination equipment takes fiber directly make that two and
zero.) That savings might pay for the fiber media.

|and I have never terminated any yet

I pulled my already-terminated fiber through ~200 feet of 1.5" irrigation
tubing. Granted there weren't any elbows, but 2" PVC is pretty generous
if the fiber is the only (or maybe even first) thing pulled. If you used
sweep 90's I don't think you would have any trouble. If you are worried
about stressing the fiber you could bind it to some sort of messenger at
frequent intervals. Or you could buy some sort of armored fiber, but that's
likely overkill.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

On 29 Sep 2004 04:49:33 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com (Roscoe Pendoscoe) writes:
>| I am doing a new pull in a buried 2" pvc pipe between two metal
>| buildings. approximately 130-150 feet with 3 90 degree elbows.
>
>What kind of elbows?

Not 2 45's if that's what you mean. A regular 90 PVC 2" pipe. I did
not install as I would have went straight to the riser. It was in
place already as they used it to put COAX in place, which is what I am
replacing.
>
>| BEcause
>| of the 90's I suppose I should use PLENUM rated cables (of either
>| type) since it's a little tougher and I don't want to knick it up
>|
>| I am under the impression that the best way to do this is to run CAT5e
>| or CAT 6 and switch to FIBER at both ends.
>
>Certainly this is better than no isolation at all, but the converters at
>each end need power. The wall warts that run such things don't provide
>great isolation, so while your network beyond the fiber will be safe (unless
>you do something really stupid with pairs of wall warts the converters
>themselves will be at risk. I had a ground strike that induced sufficient
>current in a buried line to blow out the wall warts that powered the devices
>at the ends. (This was not Ethernet.)

When you say "wall wart" I am not familiar with that term. Electrician
remember
Electrical receptacle, or network jack point? Sorry I'm a knob.
>
>| OR, better just to run the entire run in FIBER.
>
>Yes, that would be much better.

I am definately leaning towards fiber in the entire run.

They are now considering a Wi-Fi install, but are so worried about
security, it will not happen no matter how much I assure them if it's
set up properly, it wouldn't be an issue.
>
>| I know the costs are
>| higher for fiber materials
>
>I think I paid about $150 to have a 300 foot duplex MM fiber cable made,
>and you could probably do much better on eBay. Keep in mind that if you
>run fiber all the way you probably only need two converters while if you
>use a fiber link at each end of a wire run you probably need four. (If
>the actual destination equipment takes fiber directly make that two and
>zero.) That savings might pay for the fiber media.

The other reply I got (different NG) mentioned SC-SC connection
method. Is there
>
>|and I have never terminated any yet
>
>I pulled my already-terminated fiber through ~200 feet of 1.5" irrigation
>tubing. Granted there weren't any elbows, but 2" PVC is pretty generous
>if the fiber is the only (or maybe even first) thing pulled. If you used
>sweep 90's I don't think you would have any trouble. If you are worried
>about stressing the fiber you could bind it to some sort of messenger at
>frequent intervals. Or you could buy some sort of armored fiber, but that's
>likely overkill.

They put COAX in initially some years ago, which is what I am
replacing and had planned to use as a pull wire. How much stress can
fiber withstand while pulling? I ran a tape inside as they were
convinced the pipe had collapsed as they could not pull the existing
wire out although they didn't put much "oomph" on it, as they are
still using the COAX and didn't want to pull it out, only seeing if it
was free.

It was WINTER here then (Frostbite Falls Minnesota) and I had found
when I ran my tape in, it came out wet that there is water in the pipe
and that more likely the reason the wire wasn't free, it being frozen
solid in the pipe
>

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate the help

Roscoe (really Rick Carpenter)



> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com

Roscoe Pendoscoe <MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com> writes:
>When you say "wall wart" I am not familiar with that term. Electrician
The small transformer/rectifier used to supply the lower DC voltage to
most electronic equipment. In this case, the fiber/copper interface.

>I am definately leaning towards fiber in the entire run.
well besides the superior isolation, it is likely able to upgrade to
anything you want in the future... as long as you can find an
interface to attach on both ends.
either way, run an extra pull cable just in case.

> They are now considering a Wi-Fi install, but are so worried about
>security, it will not happen no matter how much I assure them if it's
>set up properly, it wouldn't be an issue.
wifi is the cheap and easy route... they have to figure out if they
are more concerned with security or cost. you can be fairly secure
with wireless.

>replacing and had planned to use as a pull wire. How much stress can
>fiber withstand while pulling? I ran a tape inside as they were
I don't know about the stress issue... perhaps you can sister a strong
cord (with a little slack) to it to take the stress.

good luck!
--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com (Roscoe Pendoscoe) writes:

| When you say "wall wart" I am not familiar with that term.

They are the little UL-listed plug-in transformers that power all our gadgets
these days (while inconveniently blocking outlets). You must have some. They
are generally _not_ designed to withstand high potentials between their low
voltage connection and the line or ground.

| They are now considering a Wi-Fi install, but are so worried about
| security, it will not happen no matter how much I assure them if it's
| set up properly, it wouldn't be an issue.

Given WiFi's miserable security record they have cause to be worried.

| >I think I paid about $150 to have a 300 foot duplex MM fiber cable made,
| >and you could probably do much better on eBay. Keep in mind that if you
| >run fiber all the way you probably only need two converters while if you
| >use a fiber link at each end of a wire run you probably need four. (If
| >the actual destination equipment takes fiber directly make that two and
| >zero.) That savings might pay for the fiber media.
|
| The other reply I got (different NG) mentioned SC-SC connection
| method.

I used ST because they seem a little easier to poke through holes. 100Mb/s
Ethernet is supposed to be standardized on SC but in practice you can get
either type of connector on converters and you can use SC/ST patch cables
with ST/ST barrel connectors to change over. Again, eBay is your friend
here. I would not bother with Gigabit Ethernet. In fact, if you don't need
speed, 10Mb/s fiber equipment is dirt cheap. You can always upgrade later
with the same fiber.

| Is there

???

| They put COAX in initially some years ago, which is what I am
| replacing and had planned to use as a pull wire. How much stress can
| fiber withstand while pulling?

I don't know. People seem to worry about it, but I find it to be pretty
strong. As I said, you can bind it to a messenger every few feet if you
are worried. Or you can get something like that already made up.

| It was WINTER here then (Frostbite Falls Minnesota) and I had found
| when I ran my tape in, it came out wet that there is water in the pipe
| and that more likely the reason the wire wasn't free, it being frozen
| solid in the pipe

You might want to get cable rated for burial (or even submersion?) but
there really isn't a lot that can happen to glass fiber...

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

On 29 Sep 2004 20:39:25 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com (Roscoe Pendoscoe) writes:
>
>| When you say "wall wart" I am not familiar with that term.
>
>They are the little UL-listed plug-in transformers that power all our gadgets
>these days (while inconveniently blocking outlets). You must have some. They
>are generally _not_ designed to withstand high potentials between their low
>voltage connection and the line or ground.

Duh! Yes I have many, but never called them that.
>
>| They are now considering a Wi-Fi install, but are so worried about
>| security, it will not happen no matter how much I assure them if it's
>| set up properly, it wouldn't be an issue.
>
>Given WiFi's miserable security record they have cause to be worried.

They don't want it for sure now although thay may be moving in a year
and it'd be easier to take with them.
>
>| >I think I paid about $150 to have a 300 foot duplex MM fiber cable made,
>| >and you could probably do much better on eBay. Keep in mind that if you
>| >run fiber all the way you probably only need two converters while if you
>| >use a fiber link at each end of a wire run you probably need four. (If
>| >the actual destination equipment takes fiber directly make that two and
>| >zero.) That savings might pay for the fiber media.
>|
>| The other reply I got (different NG) mentioned SC-SC connection
>| method.
>
>I used ST because they seem a little easier to poke through holes. 100Mb/s
>Ethernet is supposed to be standardized on SC but in practice you can get
>either type of connector on converters and you can use SC/ST patch cables
>with ST/ST barrel connectors to change over. Again, eBay is your friend
>here. I would not bother with Gigabit Ethernet. In fact, if you don't need
>speed, 10Mb/s fiber equipment is dirt cheap. You can always upgrade later
>with the same fiber.
>

Yes I did notice the size of one over the other would be easier than
the other to get through openings.
>| Is there
>
>???
>
>| They put COAX in initially some years ago, which is what I am
>| replacing and had planned to use as a pull wire. How much stress can
>| fiber withstand while pulling?
>
>I don't know. People seem to worry about it, but I find it to be pretty
>strong. As I said, you can bind it to a messenger every few feet if you
>are worried. Or you can get something like that already made up.
>
>| It was WINTER here then (Frostbite Falls Minnesota) and I had found
>| when I ran my tape in, it came out wet that there is water in the pipe
>| and that more likely the reason the wire wasn't free, it being frozen
>| solid in the pipe
>
>You might want to get cable rated for burial (or even submersion?) but
>there really isn't a lot that can happen to glass fiber...

I guess if I don't want a problem complaint later, I may go for the
tougher direct burial type and it'll more than likely stand up better
to the pull through the 90's also.
>
> Dan Lanciani
> ddl@danlan.*com


Again thanks for the helpful info!

Roscoe Pendoscoe <MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com> writes:
>On 29 Sep 2004 20:39:25 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>>Given WiFi's miserable security record they have cause to be worried.
>They don't want it for sure now although thay may be moving in a year
>and it'd be easier to take with them.

Is encryption of the traffic before going over the WiFi-lan with ipsec
a possibility? That lets them be extra secure, even on the
wired network. (how paranoid are they?)

Anyone have "crack times" of a WEP 256 network?

--
be safe.
flip
Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch?
Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+")

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:57:14 -0400, Philip Lewis
<flip+(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Roscoe Pendoscoe <MrShade@Dont_Send_I_Wont_See_it.com> writes:
>>On 29 Sep 2004 20:39:25 GMT, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
>>>Given WiFi's miserable security record they have cause to be worried.
>>They don't want it for sure now although thay may be moving in a year
>>and it'd be easier to take with them.
>
>Is encryption of the traffic before going over the WiFi-lan with ipsec
>a possibility? That lets them be extra secure, even on the
>wired network. (how paranoid are they?)
>
>Anyone have "crack times" of a WEP 256 network?

It has been decided. FIBER

Thanks for any and all info

"Do you walk to school or carry a lunch,
is it farther to St.Paul or by bus?"