http://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/...nspan-Bad.html

"Greenspan has long praised computer technology as a tool that can be
used to limit risks in financial markets. For instance, in 2005, he
credited improved computing power and risk-scoring models with making
it possible for lenders to extend credit to subprime mortgage
borrowers."

Since, without AMD, commodity computing would have been much more
expensive and much slower, we can only assume that the current crisis
might have been put off indefinitely, if not forever, were it not for
the meddling of AMD (and its co-conspirator, IBM).

Greenspan has also publicly admitted that his faith in free markets
might have been unjustified. I have it on private information that
the militant wing of the neo-con movement has a fatwah out on him.

Yes, you can still come here to stay informed.

I thought of hahahahahahahaha as a subject line, but that would have
fit most any post here for a long time.

Robert.

"Jan Panteltje" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:gdscd6$fev$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
> Robert
> Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <e013dd80-5b8a-4ce0-b7db-(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
> I would have expected you to accuse Turing, Fleming, Volta,
> and clever humans in general.
> Why this bias against AMD?
> And was it not you who helped the process?
>
> And, actually, it is not about mortgages, as Greenspan would perhaps
> want you to believe.
> It is that other countries will no longer lend you money, as each
> American
> has now > 34000$ debt (that includes babies, and children).
> http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
>
> When will you pay the Chinese, Japanese, and all those others back?
> http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
>
> The only solution is to invent an even better processors, other
> products. and license and
> export it.
>
> Or use the nukes to grab the world, and declare the debt void.
> But where would you be without cheap Chinese mobos?
>
> So, that was to keep it at least a bit on topic.
> Intel has some cash, has been buying back shares IIRC, but if nobody
> can buy its processors then what?
>
> So. maybe best is just to enjoy the time before WW3.
> WW2 came after the great depression. 1930 - 1940, rise of Hitler,
> 2008 -2018 ? Who will it be?
>
>
If other countries will no longer lend, why are US Government Bonds at
record low interest rates and the dollar is up against many currencies
including the Euro? The dollar now buys 0.77 Euro, rather than the
0.63 of this spring and is back to where it was in jan 2007.

Greenspan is no longer in any official position and is trying to
protect his reputation. And it is about irresponsible lending in all
its forms including the many financial products based on those loans.
Tell me about Iceland.

WW2 was started by an expansionary maniac. WW3 was the cold war,
which was won by the west over the objections of many Europeans. WW4
could be started by a maniac in a third world country that manages to
go nuclear. Hypothetically one could imagine that Iran actually means
what it has been saying and tries to eliminate Israel. That might be
enough due to the geopolitical and economic importance of the region.
Putin is another possibility, although much less likely to me.


del
>
>

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Oct 2008 09:50:12 -0500) it happened "Del Cecchi"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>> If other countries will no longer lend, why are US Government Bonds at
>> record low interest rates
>
>
> Perhaps because the FED cannot print the interst money fast enough on their old laser printers ... ;-)
>
>> and the dollar is up against many currencies
>> including the Euro?
>
> Capital is likely moving away from Europe too, I dunno what hedging is exactly going
> on in the currency markets today.
> I do notice oil going down.
> It seems the dollar relative to the Japanese currency is at an all time low.
> And US owns Japan the most money.
>
> There is a meeting this week with the big hedgers, Soros, some others with congress IIRC
> to work out a new strategy.
>
>
>
>> WW2 was started by an expansionary maniac. WW3 was the cold war,
>
> OK, but the cold war was not really a war.
>
>> which was won by the west over the objections of many Europeans. WW4
>> could be started by a maniac in a third world country that manages to
>> go nuclear. Hypothetically one could imagine that Iran actually means
>> what it has been saying and tries to eliminate Israel. That might be
>> enough due to the geopolitical and economic importance of the region.
>> Putin is another possibility, although much less likely to me.
>
> Yes, Putin & friends need high oil prices, he might, just to get the price
> up, be willing to play along with bombing Iran.
>
> Not sure, if Obama becomes president then oil may fall to very low prices indeed,
> as the 'house of Bush' influence will become zero.
>
> What could start it is US weapon sales to some dictator, so he would arm
> himself and attack lots of others... seems like a standard CIA plot
> from Hollywood LOL
since this group seems to be turning into talk.politics.geek or
something, what the hell. The Russians seem to be selling plenty of
arms. What was on that ship off Somalia again? And there was Khan in
Pakistan selling "making nuclear bombs for dummies" across the globe.

And why would Obama presidency make oil go down? Economy that far down?
Carbon Tax? Arabs love us so much they will give us oil out of
goodness of their heart?

Putin will just reannex Ukraine and Georgia and maybe some of the Stans
and see if Europe says anything.

The real question is what happens with Iran. Will they go nuclear and
if so will they actually attack Israel? Will Obama let them? Maybe
that is the Crisis that Biden predicted

del

On Oct 24, 7:43*am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert
> Myers <rbmyers...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <e013dd80-5b8a-4ce0-b7db-d70666bd7...@q35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>
> I would have expected you to accuse Turing, Fleming, Volta,
> and clever humans in general.
> Why this bias against AMD?
> And was it not you who helped the process?
>
You must be a serious young man. Perhaps you need to get some air, or
get laid, or something. You didn't get "hahahahahahahaha" as the
subject line? When you are at a party, how does someone announce a
joke to you?

That post was the purest and most deliberate troll I could muster.
Alan Greenspan is the one who wants to solve the nation's problems by
insisting that we can no longer afford Social Security. He is,
himself, a kind of an ongoing troll--a kook, as another poster would
have it.

As for the "experts" here on economics, I've long made it clear what I
think. If you and others want to claim that you are just as smart as
the best in the business, say, Alan Greenspan, you may now do so with
my enthusiastic blessings.

And, actually, my post was on topic. This is a group about PC
hardware. The fact that that hardware has become much more powerful
and much less expensive has allowed perfect idiots to make plots,
graphs, and predictions of just about everything without spending very
much of anything, including thought.

What has AMD to do with this? The idea that faster and cheaper
hardware is always and unquestionably a good thing doesn't pass
muster. In the circumstance at hand, the world is being run by models
so complicated that no one any longer understands. The old maxim
"garbage i, garbage out" has disappeared under the weight of povray
benchmarks.

Carry on. After all, you will, anwyway.

Robert.
Kook, troll, evil genius.

On Oct 24, 6:43*am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert
> Myers <rbmyers...@gmail.com> wrote in
> <e013dd80-5b8a-4ce0-b7db-d70666bd7...@q35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>
> I would have expected you to accuse Turing, Fleming, Volta,
> and clever humans in general.
> Why this bias against AMD?
> And was it not you who helped the process?
>
> And, actually, it is not about mortgages, as Greenspan would perhaps wantyou to believe.
> It is that other countries will no longer lend you money, as each American
> has now > 34000$ debt (that includes babies, and children).
> *http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
>
> When will you pay the Chinese, Japanese, and all those others back?
> *http://www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt
>
> The only solution is to invent an even better processors, other products.and license and
> export it.
>
> Or use the nukes to grab the world, and declare the debt void.
> But where would you be without cheap Chinese mobos?
>
> So, that was to keep it at least a bit on topic.
> Intel has some cash, has been buying back shares IIRC, but if nobody
> can buy its processors then what?

People are addicted to internet, games, just the PC experience itself.
They will buy processors and other electronic crap even if they don't
have bread to eat, just like drug addicts can starve themselves to
death to get their shot.
Btw I am not saying it is bad. It just shows that humanity as a whole
is much more a bio-silicone hybrid rather than just monkeys that _use_
robots. The human culture is a program that can run both on bio-brains
and on silicon CPUs. It is more and more hardware independent, and
will
run on whatever is more effective.

Regards,
Yevgen


>
> So. maybe best is just to enjoy the time before WW3.
> WW2 came after the great depression. 1930 - 1940, rise of Hitler,
> 2008 -2018 ? Who will it be?

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> On a sunny day (Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:29:19 -0500) it happened Del Cecchi
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>> And why would Obama presidency make oil go down?
>
>
> It was pushed way up by GW Bush's policy.
> After all he is just a pawn of the Saudi king.
> Or, if you will, there is this strong relation between oil price
> and politics:
> http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif
> We are now falling of the peak, back to say 20$???
>
>> Economy that far down?
>> Carbon Tax? Arabs love us so much they will give us oil out of
>> goodness of their heart?
>
> They need to sell, anything is only worth what somebody wants to pay for it :-)

Why do they need to sell? Got plenty money.
>
>
>> Putin will just reannex Ukraine and Georgia and maybe some of the Stans
>> and see if Europe says anything.
>
> Not sure, but indeed they may form a new power block, possibly voluntarily.

Possibly voluntarily? You have to be kidding. Volunteer or I will kill
you voluntary maybe.
>
>
>> The real question is what happens with Iran. Will they go nuclear and
>> if so will they actually attack Israel?
>
> I do not think they will attack Israel, unless they are attacked first.

So you think that the talk by Ahmadinejad is all just BS bluff?

>
>
>> Will Obama let them?
>
> US can sell a lot of weapons to the countries threatened by an 'aggressive' Iran.
> So from that POV US needs Iran to make dark statements.
> It is all weapon industry controlled, if US will sacrifice Israel, well would not
> surprise me, but sort of unlikely.

All weapon industry controlled? The Iran Mullahs are under control of
US military industrial complex? That seems like a stretch to me.
>
>
>> Maybe
>> that is the Crisis that Biden predicted
> o
> mmm
>
> Do you remember Steve Jobs saying the Apple computer was so powerful that it
> could be used for nuclear weapon simulation?
> That was when it was still 500MHz or so...
>
>
They don't need simulations when they have the pakistan recipe. So this
is a non sequitor.

You Europeans are living in a dream world.

Robert Myers wrote:
> On Oct 24, 7:43 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On a sunny day (Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:46:47 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert
>> Myers <rbmyers...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <e013dd80-5b8a-4ce0-b7db-d70666bd7...@q35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> I would have expected you to accuse Turing, Fleming, Volta,
>> and clever humans in general.
>> Why this bias against AMD?
>> And was it not you who helped the process?
>>
> You must be a serious young man. Perhaps you need to get some air, or
> get laid, or something. You didn't get "hahahahahahahaha" as the
> subject line? When you are at a party, how does someone announce a
> joke to you?
>
> That post was the purest and most deliberate troll I could muster.
> Alan Greenspan is the one who wants to solve the nation's problems by
> insisting that we can no longer afford Social Security. He is,
> himself, a kind of an ongoing troll--a kook, as another poster would
> have it.
>
> As for the "experts" here on economics, I've long made it clear what I
> think. If you and others want to claim that you are just as smart as
> the best in the business, say, Alan Greenspan, you may now do so with
> my enthusiastic blessings.
>
> And, actually, my post was on topic. This is a group about PC
> hardware. The fact that that hardware has become much more powerful
> and much less expensive has allowed perfect idiots to make plots,
> graphs, and predictions of just about everything without spending very
> much of anything, including thought.
>
> What has AMD to do with this? The idea that faster and cheaper
> hardware is always and unquestionably a good thing doesn't pass
> muster. In the circumstance at hand, the world is being run by models
> so complicated that no one any longer understands. The old maxim
> "garbage i, garbage out" has disappeared under the weight of povray
> benchmarks.
>
> Carry on. After all, you will, anwyway.
>
> Robert.
> Kook, troll, evil genius.

I thought of your post as an attempt at humor but I didn't have anything
better to do than to respond.

On Oct 24, 8:09*pm, Del Cecchi <delcecchinospamoftheno...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> I thought of your post as an attempt at humor but I didn't have anything
> better to do than to respond.

My sense of humor in life is that one never quite knows. I do think
of Alan Greespan and his ilk as dangerous, self-deluded fools. I have
long thought that. Now that the ex-emperor himself has announced that
he has realized that he was wearing no clothes, perhaps it is time for
an all-round Class A uniform inspection.

That won't happen, of course, and you have been quick to point out
that the politicians who are about to benefit handsomely from economic
misery may be no better.

The critical moment in this crisis might easily have been inferred
here, when a Wall Street type showed up trying to hire someone who
actually knew something about microprocessors. His post mentioned AMD
and Intel explicitly, and he might as well have said, "Geez, you guys
talk about this a lot. Could someone tell me the difference? I'll
pay handsomely." In retrospect, it was just about the same time
Greenspan was praising commodity computing as a way to make us all
more wealthy and to put every household in a house of its own. So the
poster here had it on the best authority that microprocessors are a
way to get rich (the only thing that really interested him), and all
he needed to know to master the subject was *which* microprocessor was
the fastest path to riches.

Or to ruin, as we have learned. The world economic order may prove to
the only the latest and most spectacular victim of the Attack of the
Killer Micros. It's a ghoulish kind of laughter, but what else can
you do?

Robert.

Robert Myers <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
> What has AMD to do with this? The idea that faster and
> cheaper hardware is always and unquestionably a good
> thing doesn't pass muster.

Why not? More unsupported statements. Do you prefer to
blame the tools rather than the user? That an inanimate object
is responsible rather than nominally thinking human beings?

> In the circumstance at hand, the world is being run by
> models so complicated that no one any longer understands.
> The old maxim "garbage i, garbage out" has disappeared
> under the weight of povray benchmarks.

Only to the most innumerate. The need for GIGO
increases with CPU power to some exponent certainly
greater than zero, and probably greater than one.


-- Robert R

On Oct 23, 7:46*pm, Robert Myers <rbmyers...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/...nspan-Bad.html
>
> "Greenspan has long praised computer technology as a tool that can be
> used to limit risks in financial markets. For instance, in 2005, he
> credited improved computing power and risk-scoring models with making
> it possible for lenders to extend credit to subprime mortgage
> borrowers."
>
> Since, without AMD, commodity computing would have been much more
> expensive and much slower, we can only assume that the current crisis
> might have been put off indefinitely, if not forever, were it not for
> the meddling of AMD (and its co-conspirator, IBM).
>
> Greenspan has also publicly admitted that his faith in free markets
> might have been unjustified. *I have it on private information that
> the militant wing of the neo-con movement has a fatwah out on him.
>
> Yes, you can still come here to stay informed.
>
> I thought of hahahahahahahaha as a subject line, but that would have
> fit most any post here for a long time.
>
> Robert.

As an aside, the systems that Fannie Mae used were actually SPARC
machines, not commodity x86 : )

David