My 3 year-old PC (P4P800 mobo w/Penitum IV 2.8Ghz) has been running Win XP
Pro Sp2 forever, with never a problem whatsoever; and now *suddenly*, *none*
of the 8 USB ports work anymore ?!

The printer/scanner is no longer visible to my PC, same with my Smartphone
or cameras, or even my 7-in-1 flash reader that has always worked for 3 years
with permanent drive letters assigned is nowhere to be found in My Computer.
Poof!

I cannot fathom what would cause this: hardware or software?

Things to consider:
1. It cannot be hardware related, since all 8 ports *failed* at once.
2. It annot be mobo's battery since BIOS is fine, remembers everything.
3. I flashed the BIOS to most recent version anyways.
4. I tried to Uninstall all hubs/ports in Device Manager, shut down, reboot,
re-scan for hardware changes and re-install drivers.
5. I installed the latest Intel chipset (865PE) drivers for my mobo.
6. I uninstalled the latest Windows Updates, including the MS Photo Info
Tool plug-in.
7.I tried a System Restore to a week-old config when it was working.

The only thing that *may* be to blame is our increased usage of USB Jump
Drives as the whole family uses plug and un-plug thumb/jump/keys more
frequently, using the same 2 front ports. But that should not affect other
USB devices permanently installed.

So, what do you think? Hardware or software?

Bob

Bob Epinette wrote:

See my responses inline:

> My 3 year-old PC (P4P800 mobo w/Penitum IV 2.8Ghz) has been running Win XP
> Pro Sp2 forever, with never a problem whatsoever; and now *suddenly*, *none*
> of the 8 USB ports work anymore ?!
>
> The printer/scanner is no longer visible to my PC, same with my Smartphone
> or cameras, or even my 7-in-1 flash reader that has always worked for 3 years
> with permanent drive letters assigned is nowhere to be found in My Computer.
> Poof!
>
> I cannot fathom what would cause this: hardware or software?
>
> Things to consider:
> 1. It cannot be hardware related, since all 8 ports *failed* at once.
This is an incorrect deduction. All your USB ports are on the same
motherboard.

> 2. It annot be mobo's battery since BIOS is fine, remembers everything.
The motherboard battery would not be involved anyway.

> 3. I flashed the BIOS to most recent version anyways.
No need to flash the BIOS for this because everything was working before
with the old BIOS.

> 4. I tried to Uninstall all hubs/ports in Device Manager, shut down, reboot,
> re-scan for hardware changes and re-install drivers.
> 5. I installed the latest Intel chipset (865PE) drivers for my mobo.
> 6. I uninstalled the latest Windows Updates, including the MS Photo Info
> Tool plug-in.
> 7.I tried a System Restore to a week-old config when it was working.
All of the above were great ways to troubleshoot operating system
(software errors). The only other thing I'd suggest doing in this regard
(software) is to look in Event Viewer to see if there are any errors.

Start>Run>eventvwr.msc [enter]

> The only thing that *may* be to blame is our increased usage of USB Jump
> Drives as the whole family uses plug and un-plug thumb/jump/keys more
> frequently, using the same 2 front ports. But that should not affect other
> USB devices permanently installed.
>
> So, what do you think? Hardware or software?

A very easy way to tell if the fault lies with Windows (software) or
hardware is to boot with a rescue cd such as Knoppix or a Bart's PE. I
prefer to use Knoppix because it is a Linux distro and therefore has no
connection with Windows at all. If you can't get the USB ports to work
under Knoppix, then you know this is a hardware issue.

http://www.knoppix.net
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ - Bart's PE Builder

To get Knoppix, you need a computer with a fast Internet connection and
third-party burning software. Download the Knoppix .iso and create your
bootable cd.

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

5.0.2.1003 2003/10/20 update
OS WinXP
Description Intel(R) Chipset Software Installation Utility V5.02.1003.
File Size 2.41 (MBytes)
Did you update the chipset drivers from the ASUS site, I assume you have a
home built computer, not an OEM..?
http://support.asus.com/ search your mobo here..
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...CVieweula.mspx (USB
view tool)
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4181.html (Everest Home ver) can us it to
provide a quick report on your USB configuration, etc..
Cheers
j;-j

"Bob Epinette" wrote:

> My 3 year-old PC (P4P800 mobo w/Penitum IV 2.8Ghz) has been running Win XP
> Pro Sp2 forever, with never a problem whatsoever; and now *suddenly*, *none*
> of the 8 USB ports work anymore ?!
>
> The printer/scanner is no longer visible to my PC, same with my Smartphone
> or cameras, or even my 7-in-1 flash reader that has always worked for 3 years
> with permanent drive letters assigned is nowhere to be found in My Computer.
> Poof!
>
> I cannot fathom what would cause this: hardware or software?
>
> Things to consider:
> 1. It cannot be hardware related, since all 8 ports *failed* at once.
> 2. It annot be mobo's battery since BIOS is fine, remembers everything.
> 3. I flashed the BIOS to most recent version anyways.
> 4. I tried to Uninstall all hubs/ports in Device Manager, shut down, reboot,
> re-scan for hardware changes and re-install drivers.
> 5. I installed the latest Intel chipset (865PE) drivers for my mobo.
> 6. I uninstalled the latest Windows Updates, including the MS Photo Info
> Tool plug-in.
> 7.I tried a System Restore to a week-old config when it was working.
>
> The only thing that *may* be to blame is our increased usage of USB Jump
> Drives as the whole family uses plug and un-plug thumb/jump/keys more
> frequently, using the same 2 front ports. But that should not affect other
> USB devices permanently installed.
>
> So, what do you think? Hardware or software?
>
> Bob
>

Yup, got BIOS update to v1019 for my P4P800 mobo from the Asus web site. Yup,
machine is *home* built as in from a local, reputable builder, with top-notch
parts. Chipset drivers obtained direct from Intel web site as well.

I will try tonight the boot into Linux idea, and add the USB sniffer or view
the Event log.

In the meantime, there is some addtional info from Microsoft about quikly
removing and re-inserting flash storage that can cause ports to stop
functionning completely:

"
SYMPTOMS
If you quickly and repeatedly insert and remove a USB device, the USB port
may stop responding. When the port is in this state, it no longer recognizes
any USB device.

CAUSE
This problem may occur because of a rare condition in the Selective Suspend
feature of USB. Microsoft and the hardware vendors that manufacture the chips
that are used for USB have investigated the problem. However, the results
have been inconclusive because of the intermittent nature of the problem.
"

Full article at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900/en-us

Talk to you all later....

Bob

"Jaymon" wrote:

> 5.0.2.1003 2003/10/20 update
> OS WinXP
> Description Intel(R) Chipset Software Installation Utility V5.02.1003.
> File Size 2.41 (MBytes)
> Did you update the chipset drivers from the ASUS site, I assume you have a
> home built computer, not an OEM..?
> http://support.asus.com/ search your mobo here..
> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...CVieweula.mspx (USB
> view tool)
> http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4181.html (Everest Home ver) can us it to
> provide a quick report on your USB configuration, etc..
> Cheers
> j;-j
>
> "Bob Epinette" wrote:
>
> > My 3 year-old PC (P4P800 mobo w/Penitum IV 2.8Ghz) has been running Win XP
> > Pro Sp2 forever, with never a problem whatsoever; and now *suddenly*, *none*
> > of the 8 USB ports work anymore ?!
> >
> > The printer/scanner is no longer visible to my PC, same with my Smartphone
> > or cameras, or even my 7-in-1 flash reader that has always worked for 3 years
> > with permanent drive letters assigned is nowhere to be found in My Computer.
> > Poof!
> >
> > I cannot fathom what would cause this: hardware or software?
> >
> > Things to consider:
> > 1. It cannot be hardware related, since all 8 ports *failed* at once.
> > 2. It annot be mobo's battery since BIOS is fine, remembers everything.
> > 3. I flashed the BIOS to most recent version anyways.
> > 4. I tried to Uninstall all hubs/ports in Device Manager, shut down, reboot,
> > re-scan for hardware changes and re-install drivers.
> > 5. I installed the latest Intel chipset (865PE) drivers for my mobo.
> > 6. I uninstalled the latest Windows Updates, including the MS Photo Info
> > Tool plug-in.
> > 7.I tried a System Restore to a week-old config when it was working.
> >
> > The only thing that *may* be to blame is our increased usage of USB Jump
> > Drives as the whole family uses plug and un-plug thumb/jump/keys more
> > frequently, using the same 2 front ports. But that should not affect other
> > USB devices permanently installed.
> >
> > So, what do you think? Hardware or software?
> >
> > Bob
> >

Bob Epinette wrote:
> Yup, got BIOS update to v1019 for my P4P800 mobo from the Asus web site. Yup,
> machine is *home* built as in from a local, reputable builder, with top-notch
> parts. Chipset drivers obtained direct from Intel web site as well.
>
> I will try tonight the boot into Linux idea, and add the USB sniffer or view
> the Event log.
>
> In the meantime, there is some addtional info from Microsoft about quikly
> removing and re-inserting flash storage that can cause ports to stop
> functionning completely:
>
> "
> SYMPTOMS
> If you quickly and repeatedly insert and remove a USB device, the USB port
> may stop responding. When the port is in this state, it no longer recognizes
> any USB device.
>
> CAUSE
> This problem may occur because of a rare condition in the Selective Suspend
> feature of USB. Microsoft and the hardware vendors that manufacture the chips
> that are used for USB have investigated the problem. However, the results
> have been inconclusive because of the intermittent nature of the problem.
> "
>
> Full article at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900/en-us

Thanks for that information, Bob. Since you mentioned family members
using the machine, if any of those family members are young people then
that KB article might certainly be applicable! I'm not dissing young
people in general but I do have two teenagers and a lot of clients with
kids and I see how rough then can be with their computers. Do let us
know what happens.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Suggest you backup all your data and let that reputable builder re-install XP
for you, that may be the only way now, unless you can roll back to the
original chipset drivers.. Even if you were to install updated chipset
drivers from the OEM site for the mobo there's a chance they may not work
unless you do a clean install of XP first.. By all means, if you can solve
this problem otherwise ie, a quick fix, please let us know how you
accomplished it..
Hope for the best.
Cheers
j;-j

"Bob Epinette" wrote:

> Yup, got BIOS update to v1019 for my P4P800 mobo from the Asus web site. Yup,
> machine is *home* built as in from a local, reputable builder, with top-notch
> parts. Chipset drivers obtained direct from Intel web site as well.
>
> I will try tonight the boot into Linux idea, and add the USB sniffer or view
> the Event log.
>
> In the meantime, there is some addtional info from Microsoft about quikly
> removing and re-inserting flash storage that can cause ports to stop
> functionning completely:
>
> "
> SYMPTOMS
> If you quickly and repeatedly insert and remove a USB device, the USB port
> may stop responding. When the port is in this state, it no longer recognizes
> any USB device.
>
> CAUSE
> This problem may occur because of a rare condition in the Selective Suspend
> feature of USB. Microsoft and the hardware vendors that manufacture the chips
> that are used for USB have investigated the problem. However, the results
> have been inconclusive because of the intermittent nature of the problem.
> "
>
> Full article at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900/en-us
>
> Talk to you all later....
>
> Bob
>
> "Jaymon" wrote:
>
> > 5.0.2.1003 2003/10/20 update
> > OS WinXP
> > Description Intel(R) Chipset Software Installation Utility V5.02.1003.
> > File Size 2.41 (MBytes)
> > Did you update the chipset drivers from the ASUS site, I assume you have a
> > home built computer, not an OEM..?
> > http://support.asus.com/ search your mobo here..
> > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device...CVieweula.mspx (USB
> > view tool)
> > http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4181.html (Everest Home ver) can us it to
> > provide a quick report on your USB configuration, etc..
> > Cheers
> > j;-j
> >
> > "Bob Epinette" wrote:
> >
> > > My 3 year-old PC (P4P800 mobo w/Penitum IV 2.8Ghz) has been running Win XP
> > > Pro Sp2 forever, with never a problem whatsoever; and now *suddenly*, *none*
> > > of the 8 USB ports work anymore ?!
> > >
> > > The printer/scanner is no longer visible to my PC, same with my Smartphone
> > > or cameras, or even my 7-in-1 flash reader that has always worked for 3 years
> > > with permanent drive letters assigned is nowhere to be found in My Computer.
> > > Poof!
> > >
> > > I cannot fathom what would cause this: hardware or software?
> > >
> > > Things to consider:
> > > 1. It cannot be hardware related, since all 8 ports *failed* at once.
> > > 2. It annot be mobo's battery since BIOS is fine, remembers everything.
> > > 3. I flashed the BIOS to most recent version anyways.
> > > 4. I tried to Uninstall all hubs/ports in Device Manager, shut down, reboot,
> > > re-scan for hardware changes and re-install drivers.
> > > 5. I installed the latest Intel chipset (865PE) drivers for my mobo.
> > > 6. I uninstalled the latest Windows Updates, including the MS Photo Info
> > > Tool plug-in.
> > > 7.I tried a System Restore to a week-old config when it was working.
> > >
> > > The only thing that *may* be to blame is our increased usage of USB Jump
> > > Drives as the whole family uses plug and un-plug thumb/jump/keys more
> > > frequently, using the same 2 front ports. But that should not affect other
> > > USB devices permanently installed.
> > >
> > > So, what do you think? Hardware or software?
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >

Bob Epinette wrote:
> Yup, got BIOS update to v1019 for my P4P800 mobo from the Asus web site. Yup,
> machine is *home* built as in from a local, reputable builder, with top-notch
> parts. Chipset drivers obtained direct from Intel web site as well.
>
> I will try tonight the boot into Linux idea, and add the USB sniffer or view
> the Event log.
>
> In the meantime, there is some addtional info from Microsoft about quikly
> removing and re-inserting flash storage that can cause ports to stop
> functionning completely:
>
> "
> SYMPTOMS
> If you quickly and repeatedly insert and remove a USB device, the USB port
> may stop responding. When the port is in this state, it no longer recognizes
> any USB device.
>
> CAUSE
> This problem may occur because of a rare condition in the Selective Suspend
> feature of USB. Microsoft and the hardware vendors that manufacture the chips
> that are used for USB have investigated the problem. However, the results
> have been inconclusive because of the intermittent nature of the problem.
> "
>
> Full article at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900/en-us
>
> Talk to you all later....
>
> Bob
>

I'd be careful with that motherboard. There are issues with the ICH5 Southbridge
and in particular, the USB ports. There is a problem called "latchup", where the
ICH5 fails completely. There is a picture here, of what a failed Southbridge
looks like. The appearance is of a problem called "latchup" and the location
of the burn marks here, correlates with the position of the power pads that
feed the USB interface.

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...light=usb+port

It could be, that this is just another instance of latchup. There are different
levels of latchup, from the spectacular "chip burning" flavor, to "micro latchup",
where individual CMOS gates stop functioning. In "micro latchup", if you
pull the AC plug, and remove all power from the computer, the chip can recover and
function again. But if the latchup occurs in a part of the circuit connected to
a strong source of power, it can burn instead. Even the CMOS battery could provide
enough power to keep a latched up circuit, in the latched up state. It all
depends on whether the thing latched up, is near enough to the CMOS well to
get power to it.

On my own P4C800-E Deluxe, I've stopped using the motherboard USB ports.
And if I wanted some USB ports on my ICH5/ICH5R based motherboard, I'd
use a separate PCI USB card for that. Something with a NEC chip on it
would be nice. If you ruin a PCI USB card, it is a simple matter to unplug
it, and replace it with another $7 USB card. Once the warranty on the
motherboard has expired, a repair is more expensive.

This is all that remains of the only motherboard company to issue a warning.
View this in IE, as Firefox cannot handle the code. This is an archived
copy, as the original has been removed.

http://web.archive.org/web/200512221...AQ/FAQ_456.htm

There was a rash of failures at one time, but there have been few reports
lately.

Paul

Well folks, turns out it is a HARDWARE issue.

The Asus P4P800 Dlx is notorious for failing in this regard; countless
threads on various forums, as well as my local hardware vendor and other
tech-heads, all confirm that this is a known issue, nonetheless acknowledged
by Asus but ignored by them.

The Southbridge chip on my mobo must be fried (although there is no visual
indication or smell) since booting with a Linux shell (Knoppix) does not
detect any ports whatsoever. Powering down the PS a long time, hoping that
any "latchup" problem will be solved, is also not helping. The damage caused
by USB flash storage is significant enugh to *break* the controller chip, but
not enough to be visible, even to XP Pro SP2 that reports everything working
fine. Even the *hotfix* provided by MS to solve this problem is not helping.

So my conclusion is: HARDWARE failure. Bummer....

The solution was to disable all mobo-USB in BIOS and add a cheap PCI-2-USB
card with 5 ports for $20, but which, AFAIK, does not provide a lot of power
to my USB devices, but works enough to get me by. Too bad the PCI card does
not have the necessary connector to hook up internally my 5-in-1 multimedia
reader; it is now sitting useless in a 3.5" bay. Maybe I'll work up the
courage to cut-open a USB cable and fashion a connector out of it for my
reader.

The lessons I learned?
1. DO ensure to discharge any accumulated static electricity from your body
before plugging in any device.
2. DO NOT quickly unplug and replug a device, in the same or different ports.
3. DO NOT buy any flavour of Asus P4P800 mobos.
4. DO come here to seek advice and share your experiences.

Thanks to all,

Bob


"Paul" wrote:
> Bob Epinette wrote:
> > Yup, got BIOS update to v1019 for my P4P800 mobo from the Asus web site. Yup,
> > machine is *home* built as in from a local, reputable builder, with top-notch
> > parts. Chipset drivers obtained direct from Intel web site as well.
> >
> > I will try tonight the boot into Linux idea, and add the USB sniffer or view
> > the Event log.
> >
> > In the meantime, there is some addtional info from Microsoft about quikly
> > removing and re-inserting flash storage that can cause ports to stop
> > functionning completely:
> >
> > "
> > SYMPTOMS
> > If you quickly and repeatedly insert and remove a USB device, the USB port
> > may stop responding. When the port is in this state, it no longer recognizes
> > any USB device.
> >
> > CAUSE
> > This problem may occur because of a rare condition in the Selective Suspend
> > feature of USB. Microsoft and the hardware vendors that manufacture the chips
> > that are used for USB have investigated the problem. However, the results
> > have been inconclusive because of the intermittent nature of the problem.
> > "
> >
> > Full article at: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/817900/en-us
> >
> > Talk to you all later....
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
> I'd be careful with that motherboard. There are issues with the ICH5 Southbridge
> and in particular, the USB ports. There is a problem called "latchup", where the
> ICH5 fails completely. There is a picture here, of what a failed Southbridge
> looks like. The appearance is of a problem called "latchup" and the location
> of the burn marks here, correlates with the position of the power pads that
> feed the USB interface.
>
> http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showth...light=usb+port
>
> It could be, that this is just another instance of latchup. There are different
> levels of latchup, from the spectacular "chip burning" flavor, to "micro latchup",
> where individual CMOS gates stop functioning. In "micro latchup", if you
> pull the AC plug, and remove all power from the computer, the chip can recover and
> function again. But if the latchup occurs in a part of the circuit connected to
> a strong source of power, it can burn instead. Even the CMOS battery could provide
> enough power to keep a latched up circuit, in the latched up state. It all
> depends on whether the thing latched up, is near enough to the CMOS well to
> get power to it.
>
> On my own P4C800-E Deluxe, I've stopped using the motherboard USB ports.
> And if I wanted some USB ports on my ICH5/ICH5R based motherboard, I'd
> use a separate PCI USB card for that. Something with a NEC chip on it
> would be nice. If you ruin a PCI USB card, it is a simple matter to unplug
> it, and replace it with another $7 USB card. Once the warranty on the
> motherboard has expired, a repair is more expensive.
>
> This is all that remains of the only motherboard company to issue a warning.
> View this in IE, as Firefox cannot handle the code. This is an archived
> copy, as the original has been removed.
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/200512221...AQ/FAQ_456.htm
>
> There was a rash of failures at one time, but there have been few reports
> lately.
>
> Paul
>

Bob Epinette wrote:
> Well folks, turns out it is a HARDWARE issue.
>
> The Asus P4P800 Dlx is notorious for failing in this regard; countless
> threads on various forums, as well as my local hardware vendor and other
> tech-heads, all confirm that this is a known issue, nonetheless acknowledged
> by Asus but ignored by them.
>
> The Southbridge chip on my mobo must be fried (although there is no visual
> indication or smell) since booting with a Linux shell (Knoppix) does not
> detect any ports whatsoever. Powering down the PS a long time, hoping that
> any "latchup" problem will be solved, is also not helping. The damage caused
> by USB flash storage is significant enugh to *break* the controller chip, but
> not enough to be visible, even to XP Pro SP2 that reports everything working
> fine. Even the *hotfix* provided by MS to solve this problem is not helping.
>
> So my conclusion is: HARDWARE failure. Bummer....
>
> The solution was to disable all mobo-USB in BIOS and add a cheap PCI-2-USB
> card with 5 ports for $20, but which, AFAIK, does not provide a lot of power
> to my USB devices, but works enough to get me by. Too bad the PCI card does
> not have the necessary connector to hook up internally my 5-in-1 multimedia
> reader; it is now sitting useless in a 3.5" bay. Maybe I'll work up the
> courage to cut-open a USB cable and fashion a connector out of it for my
> reader.
>
> The lessons I learned?
> 1. DO ensure to discharge any accumulated static electricity from your body
> before plugging in any device.
> 2. DO NOT quickly unplug and replug a device, in the same or different ports.
> 3. DO NOT buy any flavour of Asus P4P800 mobos.
> 4. DO come here to seek advice and share your experiences.

Thanks so much for posting the solution. I'm sorry about your mobo, but
you did such a great job of troubleshooting the problem and then posting
what happened that you can be sure someone else will be helped by your
good work.

My crystal ball sez there's a new motherboard in your future. ;-)


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User