My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build 2600)
on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.

I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external Hard Disk
(disk 2).
I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster size is the
default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)

If I do this using Acronis True Image 10 saved to disk 2 and disk 1 fails,
do I try and reinstall XP with the CD and then copy back the Image from disk
2?
Am I way off track?
Patti

On the contrary, you're on the right track. If only more people would
learn to backup!

There's no need to format your external hard drive with NTFS in order to
backup, but I'm not getting into another NTFS vs. FAT32 ****ing match.
You should do whatever you feel works best for you.

I'll explain a bit about disk imaging, and that should answer your
questions.

Conventional backup software copies files and folders from one place to
another. That's fine for restoring individual files and folders, but you
can't restore Windows (or other software) that way.

Disk imaging is also a way of backing up, but it works differently. Disk
imaging software copies hard drive sectors from one place to another.
This makes it possible to capture the disk meta-data, which is a fancy
way of saying the logical setup of the disk, including the information
needed to boot into Windows.

A disk image includes everything on the disk. There's no need to install
Windows to use a disk image. In fact, there's no need to install any
software at all.

In your case, Acronis True Image will make an exact sector-by-sector
copy of the disk (normally excluding free space) and store it in a
single file on your external drive. To restore your system, you'll need
to start your computer with the Acronis boot disk, which loads a copy of
the program into RAM. Then you can use the program to restore the image.
It's that simple. Once you're done, you simply restart your computer and
your disk looks exactly like it did when you backed it up.

Of course, there are fine details to learn about. You can learn them
later. Some people are heavily invested in their own backup technique
and software, and there are long threads here with fights that go back
and forth between different points of view. Big deal. Most important is
to start backing up now. Any backup is better than no backup. Over time
you can refine your technique.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

On 12/14/2009 9:29 AM, Patti Barden wrote:
> My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build 2600)
> on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
> The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.
>
> I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external Hard Disk
> (disk 2).
> I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster size is the
> default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)
>
> If I do this using Acronis True Image 10 saved to disk 2 and disk 1 fails,
> do I try and reinstall XP with the CD and then copy back the Image from disk
> 2?
> Am I way off track?
> Patti
>
>
>

"Patti Barden" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build
> 2600) on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
> The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.
>
> I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external Hard
> Disk (disk 2).
> I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster size is
> the default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)
>

<snip>

re this last bit, Patti: it won't be an issue if you're going to format as
opposed to "convert" disk 2. But it tells you when you click on "Format...";
look under "allocation unit size" - 4096 bytes = 4KB.

If you want to check the cluster size once formatted, before proceeding
further, you can do one of these two things:

Open a command prompt by clicking on Start > Run > type "cmd", press Enter
(or under the Start Menu, Programs, Accessories)

and in it type

fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo e:

where "e:" refers to the drive in question - replace as appropriate for you.

In the output look halfway down under "Bytes per Cluster". If yours says
4096 bytes (being 4KB) you're fine.

Alternatively do an analysis of the partition with XP's defragmenter utility
(no need to actually defragment it):

Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Disk Defragmenter

Select the partition, click Analyze, then View Report. Cluster size is given
under Volume Information.

Thanks again. Last question - promise.
Once I have the clone safely on the external hard drive, to keep it up to
date
I assume I will need to a clone again regularly? Or, use a backup program
and just backup the data, say weekly?
Patti

"Leonard Grey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> On the contrary, you're on the right track. If only more people would
> learn to backup!
>
> There's no need to format your external hard drive with NTFS in order to
> backup, but I'm not getting into another NTFS vs. FAT32 ****ing match. You
> should do whatever you feel works best for you.
>
> I'll explain a bit about disk imaging, and that should answer your
> questions.
>
> Conventional backup software copies files and folders from one place to
> another. That's fine for restoring individual files and folders, but you
> can't restore Windows (or other software) that way.
>
> Disk imaging is also a way of backing up, but it works differently. Disk
> imaging software copies hard drive sectors from one place to another. This
> makes it possible to capture the disk meta-data, which is a fancy way of
> saying the logical setup of the disk, including the information needed to
> boot into Windows.
>
> A disk image includes everything on the disk. There's no need to install
> Windows to use a disk image. In fact, there's no need to install any
> software at all.
>
> In your case, Acronis True Image will make an exact sector-by-sector copy
> of the disk (normally excluding free space) and store it in a single file
> on your external drive. To restore your system, you'll need to start your
> computer with the Acronis boot disk, which loads a copy of the program
> into RAM. Then you can use the program to restore the image. It's that
> simple. Once you're done, you simply restart your computer and your disk
> looks exactly like it did when you backed it up.
>
> Of course, there are fine details to learn about. You can learn them
> later. Some people are heavily invested in their own backup technique and
> software, and there are long threads here with fights that go back and
> forth between different points of view. Big deal. Most important is to
> start backing up now. Any backup is better than no backup. Over time you
> can refine your technique.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> On 12/14/2009 9:29 AM, Patti Barden wrote:
>> My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build
>> 2600)
>> on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
>> The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.
>>
>> I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external Hard
>> Disk
>> (disk 2).
>> I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster size is
>> the
>> default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)
>>
>> If I do this using Acronis True Image 10 saved to disk 2 and disk 1
>> fails,
>> do I try and reinstall XP with the CD and then copy back the Image from
>> disk
>> 2?
>> Am I way off track?
>> Patti
>>
>>
>>

Thanks "Olórin"
Just what I wanted to know.
Patti

"Olórin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Patti Barden" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build
>> 2600) on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
>> The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.
>>
>> I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external Hard
>> Disk (disk 2).
>> I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster size is
>> the default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> re this last bit, Patti: it won't be an issue if you're going to format as
> opposed to "convert" disk 2. But it tells you when you click on
> "Format..."; look under "allocation unit size" - 4096 bytes = 4KB.
>
> If you want to check the cluster size once formatted, before proceeding
> further, you can do one of these two things:
>
> Open a command prompt by clicking on Start > Run > type "cmd", press Enter
> (or under the Start Menu, Programs, Accessories)
>
> and in it type
>
> fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo e:
>
> where "e:" refers to the drive in question - replace as appropriate for
> you.
>
> In the output look halfway down under "Bytes per Cluster". If yours says
> 4096 bytes (being 4KB) you're fine.
>
> Alternatively do an analysis of the partition with XP's defragmenter
> utility (no need to actually defragment it):
>
> Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Disk Defragmenter
>
> Select the partition, click Analyze, then View Report. Cluster size is
> given under Volume Information.
>

First, a bit of terminology: Technically speaking, Acronis True Image
creates an /image/ of a hard disk (or a disk partition). That means it
copies all the sectors on the disk - including the meta-data but
excluding empty sectors, i.e., free space - to a single file. Like most
disk imaging programs, ATI excludes the paging file and the hibernation
file, which don't need to be backed up. Also, the image is compressed.

A /clone/ is an identical copy of a hard disk (or a disk partition),
which includes everything and is usually not compressed.

Regardless, both achieve the same objective: creating a backup. (The
term /ghost/ is a marketing term used by Symantec for its Norton Ghost
product; the term was originally coined by Binary Research.)

Getting to your question: You should absolutely backup regularly. Every
day. Any worthwhile disk imaging program, including ATI, allows you to
schedule backups and you should definitely take advantage of this
feature. It's also a good idea to backup before you make any major
changes to your system.

Let's say you try upgrading to IE 8 and it goes badly. "Ha ha ha" you
laugh, as you restore the image you made immediately before upgrading.
In less time than it takes to enjoy a glass of Pinot Grigio, your
computer is back to the way it was.

You may even decide to keep a rotating history of backups, for example:
I maintain the most recent 7 backups of my system partition.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

On 12/15/2009 9:59 AM, Patti Barden wrote:
> Thanks again. Last question - promise.
> Once I have the clone safely on the external hard drive, to keep it up to
> date
> I assume I will need to a clone again regularly? Or, use a backup program
> and just backup the data, say weekly?
> Patti
>
> "Leonard Grey"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On the contrary, you're on the right track. If only more people would
>> learn to backup!
>>
>> There's no need to format your external hard drive with NTFS in order to
>> backup, but I'm not getting into another NTFS vs. FAT32 ****ing match. You
>> should do whatever you feel works best for you.
>>
>> I'll explain a bit about disk imaging, and that should answer your
>> questions.
>>
>> Conventional backup software copies files and folders from one place to
>> another. That's fine for restoring individual files and folders, but you
>> can't restore Windows (or other software) that way.
>>
>> Disk imaging is also a way of backing up, but it works differently. Disk
>> imaging software copies hard drive sectors from one place to another. This
>> makes it possible to capture the disk meta-data, which is a fancy way of
>> saying the logical setup of the disk, including the information needed to
>> boot into Windows.
>>
>> A disk image includes everything on the disk. There's no need to install
>> Windows to use a disk image. In fact, there's no need to install any
>> software at all.
>>
>> In your case, Acronis True Image will make an exact sector-by-sector copy
>> of the disk (normally excluding free space) and store it in a single file
>> on your external drive. To restore your system, you'll need to start your
>> computer with the Acronis boot disk, which loads a copy of the program
>> into RAM. Then you can use the program to restore the image. It's that
>> simple. Once you're done, you simply restart your computer and your disk
>> looks exactly like it did when you backed it up.
>>
>> Of course, there are fine details to learn about. You can learn them
>> later. Some people are heavily invested in their own backup technique and
>> software, and there are long threads here with fights that go back and
>> forth between different points of view. Big deal. Most important is to
>> start backing up now. Any backup is better than no backup. Over time you
>> can refine your technique.
>> ---
>> Leonard Grey
>> Errare humanum est
>>
>> On 12/14/2009 9:29 AM, Patti Barden wrote:
>>> My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3 (build
>>> 2600)
>>> on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
>>> The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.
>>>
>>> I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external Hard
>>> Disk
>>> (disk 2).
>>> I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster size is
>>> the
>>> default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)
>>>
>>> If I do this using Acronis True Image 10 saved to disk 2 and disk 1
>>> fails,
>>> do I try and reinstall XP with the CD and then copy back the Image from
>>> disk
>>> 2?
>>> Am I way off track?
>>> Patti
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Just an aside....I have assisted a number of people who used an external
USB hard drive for backup and then suddenly could not get the USB drive
recognized by any computer. In some cases, the drive had to be removed
from the enclosure (not always easy to do) and installed as an internal
drive to access the data again. In other cases, the data was just gone.
As a result, I am leery of using USB hard drives for my only backup.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/


"Leonard Grey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> First, a bit of terminology: Technically speaking, Acronis True Image
> creates an /image/ of a hard disk (or a disk partition). That means it
> copies all the sectors on the disk - including the meta-data but
> excluding empty sectors, i.e., free space - to a single file. Like
> most disk imaging programs, ATI excludes the paging file and the
> hibernation file, which don't need to be backed up. Also, the image is
> compressed.
>
> A /clone/ is an identical copy of a hard disk (or a disk partition),
> which includes everything and is usually not compressed.
>
> Regardless, both achieve the same objective: creating a backup. (The
> term /ghost/ is a marketing term used by Symantec for its Norton Ghost
> product; the term was originally coined by Binary Research.)
>
> Getting to your question: You should absolutely backup regularly.
> Every day. Any worthwhile disk imaging program, including ATI, allows
> you to schedule backups and you should definitely take advantage of
> this feature. It's also a good idea to backup before you make any
> major changes to your system.
>
> Let's say you try upgrading to IE 8 and it goes badly. "Ha ha ha" you
> laugh, as you restore the image you made immediately before upgrading.
> In less time than it takes to enjoy a glass of Pinot Grigio, your
> computer is back to the way it was.
>
> You may even decide to keep a rotating history of backups, for
> example: I maintain the most recent 7 backups of my system partition.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> On 12/15/2009 9:59 AM, Patti Barden wrote:
>> Thanks again. Last question - promise.
>> Once I have the clone safely on the external hard drive, to keep it
>> up to
>> date
>> I assume I will need to a clone again regularly? Or, use a backup
>> program
>> and just backup the data, say weekly?
>> Patti
>>
>> "Leonard Grey"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> On the contrary, you're on the right track. If only more people
>>> would
>>> learn to backup!
>>>
>>> There's no need to format your external hard drive with NTFS in
>>> order to
>>> backup, but I'm not getting into another NTFS vs. FAT32 ****ing
>>> match. You
>>> should do whatever you feel works best for you.
>>>
>>> I'll explain a bit about disk imaging, and that should answer your
>>> questions.
>>>
>>> Conventional backup software copies files and folders from one place
>>> to
>>> another. That's fine for restoring individual files and folders, but
>>> you
>>> can't restore Windows (or other software) that way.
>>>
>>> Disk imaging is also a way of backing up, but it works differently.
>>> Disk
>>> imaging software copies hard drive sectors from one place to
>>> another. This
>>> makes it possible to capture the disk meta-data, which is a fancy
>>> way of
>>> saying the logical setup of the disk, including the information
>>> needed to
>>> boot into Windows.
>>>
>>> A disk image includes everything on the disk. There's no need to
>>> install
>>> Windows to use a disk image. In fact, there's no need to install any
>>> software at all.
>>>
>>> In your case, Acronis True Image will make an exact sector-by-sector
>>> copy
>>> of the disk (normally excluding free space) and store it in a single
>>> file
>>> on your external drive. To restore your system, you'll need to start
>>> your
>>> computer with the Acronis boot disk, which loads a copy of the
>>> program
>>> into RAM. Then you can use the program to restore the image. It's
>>> that
>>> simple. Once you're done, you simply restart your computer and your
>>> disk
>>> looks exactly like it did when you backed it up.
>>>
>>> Of course, there are fine details to learn about. You can learn them
>>> later. Some people are heavily invested in their own backup
>>> technique and
>>> software, and there are long threads here with fights that go back
>>> and
>>> forth between different points of view. Big deal. Most important is
>>> to
>>> start backing up now. Any backup is better than no backup. Over time
>>> you
>>> can refine your technique.
>>> ---
>>> Leonard Grey
>>> Errare humanum est
>>>
>>> On 12/14/2009 9:29 AM, Patti Barden wrote:
>>>> My current computer is running XP Professional Service Pack 3
>>>> (build
>>>> 2600)
>>>> on a 500GB disk (disk 1).
>>>> The disk is formatted NTFS and has only the one partition.
>>>>
>>>> I want to be able to clone my current 71GB computer to a external
>>>> Hard
>>>> Disk
>>>> (disk 2).
>>>> I am going to format my disk 2 to NTFS. (I assume the 4k cluster
>>>> size is
>>>> the
>>>> default setting on the drop down menu on "Format"?)
>>>>
>>>> If I do this using Acronis True Image 10 saved to disk 2 and disk 1
>>>> fails,
>>>> do I try and reinstall XP with the CD and then copy back the Image
>>>> from
>>>> disk
>>>> 2?
>>>> Am I way off track?
>>>> Patti
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>

Did you determine the reason why the USB drive was not recognized in
each case? What leads you to believe that the reason for failure was the
fact that it was a USB drive that was being used?

A USB hard drive is little more than a regular internal hard drive with
a USB adapter. In fact, you can make your own external hard drive from a
regular internal hard drive and an enclosure.

As a backup destination, an external hard is no more or less secure than
an internal hard drive or a network drive.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

On 12/15/2009 11:42 PM, glee wrote:
> Just an aside....I have assisted a number of people who used an external
> USB hard drive for backup and then suddenly could not get the USB drive
> recognized by any computer. In some cases, the drive had to be removed
> from the enclosure (not always easy to do) and installed as an internal
> drive to access the data again. In other cases, the data was just gone.
> As a result, I am leery of using USB hard drives for my only backup.

>
> As a backup destination, an external hard is no more or less secure than
> an internal hard drive or a network drive.
> ---
How can you make such a ridiculous statement.
An external hard drive is far more secure than an internal.

Examples:
1. The power can be off the external while running the computer thereby
protecting it from power surges and outages.
2. If the internal is also used for backup and a head crash occurs both
systems are lost---primary and backup. Not so if external backup.
3. In event of fire or theft the external can be at some other location.

"Leonard Grey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Did you determine the reason why the USB drive was not recognized in
> each case? What leads you to believe that the reason for failure was
> the fact that it was a USB drive that was being used?


That's an odd question. The failure was due to the drives being USB
drives. The drives worked when removed from the enclosure and installed
as an internal drive. These were not enclosures bought separately with
drives added...they were single units not meant to be opened, types like
the W-D MyBook.
Much USB troubleshooting was done in each case (removing UpperFilters,
LowerFilters, and so forth), but all other USB drives and peripherals
worked fine, so it seems the problem was with the USB bridge in the
enclosure in these instances.


> A USB hard drive is little more than a regular internal hard drive
> with a USB adapter. In fact, you can make your own external hard drive
> from a regular internal hard drive and an enclosure.

Well aware of that.


> As a backup destination, an external hard is no more or less secure
> than an internal hard drive or a network drive.

Depends on what you mean by secure. External is more secure in that you
can take it off-site....but that also makes it LESS secure, if someone
unauthorised takes it off-site. ;-)
External drives are more prone to run hot than internal drives, harder
to monitor using S.M.A.R.T. tools, and easier to damage due to droppage
and rough handling, potentially making an external drive a much less
secure backup. I've spent enough time helping people try to recover
data from external drives that are no longer recognized, to be wary of
them as a sole backup plan. YMMV.

>
> On 12/15/2009 11:42 PM, glee wrote:
>> Just an aside....I have assisted a number of people who used an
>> external
>> USB hard drive for backup and then suddenly could not get the USB
>> drive
>> recognized by any computer. In some cases, the drive had to be
>> removed
>> from the enclosure (not always easy to do) and installed as an
>> internal
>> drive to access the data again. In other cases, the data was just
>> gone.
>> As a result, I am leery of using USB hard drives for my only backup.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/