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      16th Feb 2006
I'm beset with irritating problems right now like boot up CD's that
booted 10 minutes ago no longer booting. But just in general
principles is it right to prepare the new slave first with partition,
making the first one a primary? Then clone from an image of the old
drive to the first partiton of the new drive, having disconnected the
old drive and made the slave new drive a master.

I think the principle is right, if only the boot disk wouldn't let me
down.

Colin
 
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Ted Zieglar
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      16th Feb 2006
Cloning means making an identical copy. If the source drive was bootable,
the destination drive is bootable. No reason to prepare the destination
drive first - whatever changes you make will get overwritten.

Instead of working on principles, RTFM. Use the instructions and software
that came with the new drive (if it was a retail drive - if it's not a
retail drive good luck to you.) You can also buy third party disc cloning
software.

--
Ted Zieglar
"You can do it if you try."

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm beset with irritating problems right now like boot up CD's that
> booted 10 minutes ago no longer booting. But just in general
> principles is it right to prepare the new slave first with partition,
> making the first one a primary? Then clone from an image of the old
> drive to the first partiton of the new drive, having disconnected the
> old drive and made the slave new drive a master.
>
> I think the principle is right, if only the boot disk wouldn't let me
> down.
>
> Colin


 
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      16th Feb 2006
Thanks. I'm using True Image by Acronis, which I think is great, but
it intends to unstitch all my preparation by deleting all partitions
and data on the destination drive.

Previously, I had used BootitNG which does clone to a partition rather
than to an entire drive.

Colin


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:10:00 -0500, "Ted Zieglar"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Cloning means making an identical copy. If the source drive was bootable,
>the destination drive is bootable. No reason to prepare the destination
>drive first - whatever changes you make will get overwritten.
>
>Instead of working on principles, RTFM. Use the instructions and software
>that came with the new drive (if it was a retail drive - if it's not a
>retail drive good luck to you.) You can also buy third party disc cloning
>software.


 
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Anna
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      16th Feb 2006

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks. I'm using True Image by Acronis, which I think is great, but
> it intends to unstitch all my preparation by deleting all partitions
> and data on the destination drive.
>
> Previously, I had used BootitNG which does clone to a partition rather
> than to an entire drive.
>
> Colin



> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:10:00 -0500, "Ted Zieglar"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Cloning means making an identical copy. If the source drive was bootable,
>>the destination drive is bootable. No reason to prepare the destination
>>drive first - whatever changes you make will get overwritten.
>>
>>Instead of working on principles, RTFM. Use the instructions and software
>>that came with the new drive (if it was a retail drive - if it's not a
>>retail drive good luck to you.) You can also buy third party disc cloning
>>software.



Colin:
As Ted has pointed out, when you clone the contents of one HD to another HD,
the destination drive, in effect, is wiped clean and loses all its previous
contents which, of course, are replaced with the contents of the source HD.

The problem you're experiencing with the Acronis program (at least based on
my experience with the ATI version 8 program - I haven't worked with the
newer version 9) is that the program does not have the capability of
*directly* cloning the contents of the HD from & to selected individual
partitions where the drive(s) have been multi-partitioned. It's an all or
nothing proposition, i.e., a disk-to-disk cloning process. At least I've
never been able to find a way to use ATI8 to clone individual partitions. I
might mention that this capability *does* exist in the disk imaging program
I mostly use - Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003.
Anna


 
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Colin Bearfield
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Posts: n/a
 
      16th Feb 2006
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:55:23 -0500, "Anna" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Thanks. I'm using True Image by Acronis, which I think is great, but
>> it intends to unstitch all my preparation by deleting all partitions
>> and data on the destination drive.
>>
>> Previously, I had used BootitNG which does clone to a partition rather
>> than to an entire drive.
>>
>> Colin

>
>
>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:10:00 -0500, "Ted Zieglar"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>Cloning means making an identical copy. If the source drive was bootable,
>>>the destination drive is bootable. No reason to prepare the destination
>>>drive first - whatever changes you make will get overwritten.
>>>
>>>Instead of working on principles, RTFM. Use the instructions and software
>>>that came with the new drive (if it was a retail drive - if it's not a
>>>retail drive good luck to you.) You can also buy third party disc cloning
>>>software.

>
>
>Colin:
>As Ted has pointed out, when you clone the contents of one HD to another HD,
>the destination drive, in effect, is wiped clean and loses all its previous
>contents which, of course, are replaced with the contents of the source HD.
>
>The problem you're experiencing with the Acronis program (at least based on
>my experience with the ATI version 8 program - I haven't worked with the
>newer version 9) is that the program does not have the capability of
>*directly* cloning the contents of the HD from & to selected individual
>partitions where the drive(s) have been multi-partitioned. It's an all or
>nothing proposition, i.e., a disk-to-disk cloning process. At least I've
>never been able to find a way to use ATI8 to clone individual partitions. I
>might mention that this capability *does* exist in the disk imaging program
>I mostly use - Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003.
>Anna
>

Thanks Anna. You are so right!

I have used Ghost 2001, it didn't work with XP. BootitNG does clone to
individual partitions but I don't trust it.

I shall have to accept ATI's all or nothing approach. So I'm off to
my friend's now to backup all the data that I had moved into the
partitions on the new drive, and then clone the drive and lose them
all. Hopefully I shall be able to recreate the partitions. There's
not much point in having 15 GB on a 160 Gb drive.

Colin
 
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      16th Feb 2006
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:49:00 GMT, <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I'm beset with irritating problems right now like boot up CD's that
>booted 10 minutes ago no longer booting. But just in general
>principles is it right to prepare the new slave first with partition,
>making the first one a primary? Then clone from an image of the old
>drive to the first partiton of the new drive, having disconnected the
>old drive and made the slave new drive a master.
>
>I think the principle is right, if only the boot disk wouldn't let me
>down.
>
>Colin


The header for this should now read "replacing a drive". While backing
up data across the network to the master on another machine, the
master failed completely. I put a new drive in and jumpered it as
master.

I restored from the 30Gb slave a very recent image which according to
TI v9 was completely successful. It didn't boot, it just hung with
this message:

NTLDR is missing.
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart.

Any help will be appreciated.

Colin
 
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Anna
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      16th Feb 2006

>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Thanks. I'm using True Image by Acronis, which I think is great, but
>>> it intends to unstitch all my preparation by deleting all partitions
>>> and data on the destination drive.
>>>
>>> Previously, I had used BootitNG which does clone to a partition rather
>>> than to an entire drive.
>>>
>>> Colin



>>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:10:00 -0500, "Ted Zieglar"
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Cloning means making an identical copy. If the source drive was
>>>>bootable,
>>>>the destination drive is bootable. No reason to prepare the destination
>>>>drive first - whatever changes you make will get overwritten.
>>>>
>>>>Instead of working on principles, RTFM. Use the instructions and
>>>>software
>>>>that came with the new drive (if it was a retail drive - if it's not a
>>>>retail drive good luck to you.) You can also buy third party disc
>>>>cloning
>>>>software.



> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:55:23 -0500, "Anna" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>>Colin:
>>As Ted has pointed out, when you clone the contents of one HD to another
>>HD, the destination drive, in effect, is wiped clean and loses all its
>>previous
>>contents which, of course, are replaced with the contents of the source
>>HD.
>>
>>The problem you're experiencing with the Acronis program (at least based
>>on
>>my experience with the ATI version 8 program - I haven't worked with the
>>newer version 9) is that the program does not have the capability of
>>*directly* cloning the contents of the HD from & to selected individual
>>partitions where the drive(s) have been multi-partitioned. It's an all or
>>nothing proposition, i.e., a disk-to-disk cloning process. At least I've
>>never been able to find a way to use ATI8 to clone individual partitions.
>>I
>>might mention that this capability *does* exist in the disk imaging
>>program
>>I mostly use - Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003.
>>Anna



"Colin Bearfield" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks Anna. You are so right!
>
> I have used Ghost 2001, it didn't work with XP. BootitNG does clone to
> individual partitions but I don't trust it.
>
> I shall have to accept ATI's all or nothing approach. So I'm off to
> my friend's now to backup all the data that I had moved into the
> partitions on the new drive, and then clone the drive and lose them
> all. Hopefully I shall be able to recreate the partitions. There's
> not much point in having 15 GB on a 160 Gb drive.
>
> Colin



Colin:
Since you apparently have some familiarity with Symantec's Norton Ghost
program, why not use the Ghost 2003 version to perform your cloning
operations? That version works just fine with XP and as I've previously
indicated it has the happy capability of directly cloning individual
partitions from one HD to another HD.

I recently posted to this newsgroup a detailed description of using that
program under the subject "Re: Best Method and/or How to Set Up a Configured
and Updated XP Installation?". In that post I also included a listing of a
number of online vendors from whom you can still order the Ghost 2003
version at remarkably low prices.
Anna


 
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      17th Feb 2006
What an interesting thread, and only a few days old - how did I miss
it?

I shall certainly download a copy of 2003.

Ghost 2001 was my first imaging software and I loved the security it
gave me. I am very, very old so I appreciated the DOS command line.
Yet I found that the manual didn't fully follow the program. That
can't be good. Then along came XP. Nuff said.

I also used BootitNG. My mate swears by it but it is arcane. The
parting of the ways came when my wife bought me partition Magic 8 for
Christmas so out of loyalty I tried to uninstall Bootit from my second
machine so that I could use Boot magic. I couldn't uninstall it. It's
still there about 3 years later. I ran the install but Partition Magic
couldn't install on the partitions created by Bootit. Someone told me
that Bootit created non-standard partitions and the only way to
proceed was to format the disk. Too rich for my blood! I have feared
it ever since.

I thought that True Image v8 was great - cheaper and simpler than the
Ghost that I knew. I'm not so keen on the GUI in v9 and I didn't know
that the cloning option was so limited.

Because of my failing memory I like to tune an O/S and apps to
perfection and take an image for squirting back on in case of
emergency. I never have emergencies on my own system. Do you find that
you only need insurance when you don't have any.

All of this is a far cry from my present problem. I am helping a
friend and he's stuck with TI v9 because I persuaded him to buy it.
Acronis support has been silent ever since.

Do you know if TI v9 can clone an image to a hard disk? I have
"restored " an image to a new drive but the capacity is different and
produces the dreaded message "NTLDR is missing". I believe it's
because the heads are different. I understand that "cloning" the
image to the new drive would avoid this probl;em.

Thanks for the good read.

Colin


On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 17:43:17 -0500, "Anna" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> Thanks. I'm using True Image by Acronis, which I think is great, but
>>>> it intends to unstitch all my preparation by deleting all partitions
>>>> and data on the destination drive.
>>>>
>>>> Previously, I had used BootitNG which does clone to a partition rather
>>>> than to an entire drive.
>>>>
>>>> Colin

>
>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:10:00 -0500, "Ted Zieglar"
>>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Cloning means making an identical copy. If the source drive was
>>>>>bootable,
>>>>>the destination drive is bootable. No reason to prepare the destination
>>>>>drive first - whatever changes you make will get overwritten.
>>>>>
>>>>>Instead of working on principles, RTFM. Use the instructions and
>>>>>software
>>>>>that came with the new drive (if it was a retail drive - if it's not a
>>>>>retail drive good luck to you.) You can also buy third party disc
>>>>>cloning
>>>>>software.

>
>
>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:55:23 -0500, "Anna" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>>>Colin:
>>>As Ted has pointed out, when you clone the contents of one HD to another
>>>HD, the destination drive, in effect, is wiped clean and loses all its
>>>previous
>>>contents which, of course, are replaced with the contents of the source
>>>HD.
>>>
>>>The problem you're experiencing with the Acronis program (at least based
>>>on
>>>my experience with the ATI version 8 program - I haven't worked with the
>>>newer version 9) is that the program does not have the capability of
>>>*directly* cloning the contents of the HD from & to selected individual
>>>partitions where the drive(s) have been multi-partitioned. It's an all or
>>>nothing proposition, i.e., a disk-to-disk cloning process. At least I've
>>>never been able to find a way to use ATI8 to clone individual partitions.
>>>I
>>>might mention that this capability *does* exist in the disk imaging
>>>program
>>>I mostly use - Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003.
>>>Anna

>
>
>"Colin Bearfield" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Thanks Anna. You are so right!
>>
>> I have used Ghost 2001, it didn't work with XP. BootitNG does clone to
>> individual partitions but I don't trust it.
>>
>> I shall have to accept ATI's all or nothing approach. So I'm off to
>> my friend's now to backup all the data that I had moved into the
>> partitions on the new drive, and then clone the drive and lose them
>> all. Hopefully I shall be able to recreate the partitions. There's
>> not much point in having 15 GB on a 160 Gb drive.
>>
>> Colin

>
>
>Colin:
>Since you apparently have some familiarity with Symantec's Norton Ghost
>program, why not use the Ghost 2003 version to perform your cloning
>operations? That version works just fine with XP and as I've previously
>indicated it has the happy capability of directly cloning individual
>partitions from one HD to another HD.
>
>I recently posted to this newsgroup a detailed description of using that
>program under the subject "Re: Best Method and/or How to Set Up a Configured
>and Updated XP Installation?". In that post I also included a listing of a
>number of online vendors from whom you can still order the Ghost 2003
>version at remarkably low prices.
>Anna
>


 
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Colin Bearfield
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      17th Feb 2006
I tried the
http://www.tekdealers.com/?pg=produc...s&productID=89
option.

Being in the UK it seemed the best one because it was download. The
zip code obviously wouldn't work. I invented one that seemed to be
accepted but it couldn't display the next page. I think that shipping
is going to be out of the question.

Can anyone suggest another download option?

Colin
 
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Anna
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      17th Feb 2006

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
(SNIP)

> All of this is a far cry from my present problem. I am helping a
> friend and he's stuck with TI v9 because I persuaded him to buy it.
> Acronis support has been silent ever since.
>
> Do you know if TI v9 can clone an image to a hard disk? I have
> "restored " an image to a new drive but the capacity is different and
> produces the dreaded message "NTLDR is missing". I believe it's
> because the heads are different. I understand that "cloning" the
> image to the new drive would avoid this probl;em.
>
> Thanks for the good read.
>
> Colin



Colin:
As I previously mentioned, I haven't worked with version 9 of the Acronis
True Image program, only the version 8 program; however, I assume both
versions are identical or near-identical with respect to the basic process
of *directly* cloning the contents of one HD to another HD. My preference in
working with the Acronis program is similar to that of the way I usually
work with the Ghost 2003 program, i.e., I use bootable media to carry out
the disk cloning operation. In the case of the Acronis program one cannot
create a bootable floppy disk to perform the cloning process (as you can
with the Ghost 2003 program) but you can create a bootable CD to carry out
that process. And that is what I use rather than the Acronis GUI. Again, as
in the Ghost 2003 program, it's simply a personal preference of mine to use
this media for reasons of portability & simplicity of operation.

Here are the basic steps to use the ATI8 program to *directly* clone the
contents of one HD to another HD.

But before listing them, let me make the following points...
1. I do not use the program to create disk images on removable media, e.g.,
DVDs
2. I do not make "incremental" backups via the cloning process.
3. Direct disk-to-disk cloning is my sole interest so as to reasonably
maintain a near-failsafe backup system involving my day-to-day working hard
drive. I have no other interest in using a disk imaging program. In so
doing, I prefer to carry out the cloning operation using the bootable CD
(a/k/a "Bootable Rescue Media" as Acronis calls it) that one can easily
create in the ATI program. I find the simplicity, straightforwardness, and
portability aspects of using the bootable CD more to my liking than using
the Acronis GUI. It's simply a personal preference.

I mention the above because I want you (and others who may be interested in
this subject) to understand precisely how I use the program, which may be
different from the way others may employ it, and thus my comments may have
little or no relevance to your present situation or whatever problem you may
be experiencing.
Here are the basic steps I follow to *directly* clone the contents of one HD
to another HD (internal or external).

Creating the Acronis bootable CD:
1. Assuming the Acronis program has already been installed on your computer,
access the program and click on the "Create Bootable Rescue Media" item (or
the appropriate icon in the menu bar).
2. Work through the screens selecting a bootable CD as the "rescue media"
you want to create.

The disk cloning process:
1. Ensure there are no other storage devices connected to the computer other
than the source and destination drives.

a. If both drives (source & destination) are connected, and the computer
is running, insert the Acronis bootable CD you've created in your CD/DVD
drive and restart your computer. If you're cloning to a USB/Firewire
external HD, that device can be connected before restarting your computer.

b. If *only* your working drive (the source disk) is connected at the
time the computer is running, insert the Acronis bootable CD in your CD/DVD
device and shutdown your computer. Disconnect the computer's power cord and
connect the second (destination) drive you'll be cloning to and boot up with
both drives connected.

2. Upon bootup, the Acronis main screen will display. One of the icons will
be "Disk Clone". Double-click on this icon.

3. The "Welcome to the Disk Clone Wizard!" screen will display. Click Next.

4. The "Clone Mode" dialog box will display with two options. Select the
"Automatic" option (it probably will be the default) and click Next.

5. The "Source Hard Disk" screen will display with your two drives listed.
Make *absolutely certain* that your source disk (the drive you'll be cloning
*from*) is highlighted, and thus selected. Click Next.

6. The "Destination Hard Disk" screen will display. Again, make *absolutely
certain* that your destination disk (the drive you'll be cloning to) is
highlighted (selected). Click Next.

7. Assuming your destination disk is not a "virgin" disk, i.e., it contains
data, the "Nonempty Destination Hard Disk" screen will display. Select the
"Delete partitions on the destination hard disk" option and click Next.

8. The "Hard Disk Drives Structure" screen will display reflecting the
"before and after" cloning operation. Again, make absolutely certain that
your source and destination drives are correctly indicated. Click Next.

9. The final screen before the cloning operation takes place will display
summarizing the impending process. Once again, the important thing is to
verify that your source and destination drives are correctly reflected.
Click the Proceed button to begin the cloning operation.

10. Following the cloning operation, remove the bootable CD and shutdown the
computer. DO NOT REBOOT AT THIS TIME!

11. If you're working with internal hard drives, it's a good idea to verify
that the cloning operation was successful and that you now have a bootable
clone. So after shutting down the computer, disconnect its power cord, open
your case and disconnect your source disk. Power up and boot with the cloned
destination disk to ensure that it is indeed bootable and that all is well.

Incidentally, I'm assuming in all this that your motherboard will allow you
to boot to the cloned drive regardless of its position/configuration on the
IDE cable (assuming PATA drives). We have come across some motherboards
which will not permit a boot from any position other than Primary Master. If
so, you'll need to make the necessary reconnects/reconfiguration for your
cloned drive in that situation in order to test that it is bootable.
Presuming it is, shutdown the machine, remove the power cord, and reconnect
your source disk (assuming that's the drive you plan to continue to use as
your day-to-day working drive). It's probably best to disconnect the cloned
disk after you've verified that the cloning operation was successful. See
the note below.

If, on the other hand, you've cloned to a USB/Firewire external hard drive,
no further action is necessary. Remember that the USB/Firewire EHD is *not*
bootable. And, of course, the external drive should ordinarily be
disconnected from the computer following the cloning operation.

NOTE: Reiterating the information in steps 10 & 11 above, following the
cloning operation, shut (power) down the computer; disconnect the source
disk; and make the *initial* boot of the cloned drive while it is the *only*
drive connected at that time. If, on that initial boot *both* drives are
connected, there's a distinct possibility (although not a certainty) that
the cloned drive will not boot at a future time.

After that initial boot of the newly-cloned drive, both drives can be
connected if desired. Generally speaking, the only time both internal drives
will be simultaneously connected following the cloning operation is when you
will want to perform the cloning operation at a later date (subsequent
backups) or you want to re:clone the contents of the cloned HD back to your
day-to-day working HD for restoration purposes.
Anna


 
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