XPP SP2
FrontPage 2003 SP2




Hello,

Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well as in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites, in an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to their sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about organizations aimed a large or wide audience.

Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print brochures in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access to our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible, without going overboard.

Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested this in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used for testing purposes.

My questions:



1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts to character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through Alt plus a character)?
Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively, are underscored.


2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of areas that should not be scalable?


3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text (Ctrl+Scroll)?


4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab order between navigation hyperlinks?

I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this issue, or references to sites discussing it.

Best regards,


Eric G
Stockholm, Sweden

> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?

I think so. So do others who need to enlarge the font to read it clearly.

> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable.

Not on a well built site.

> Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it
> implemented by mistake)

I don't find this to be the case.

> and is there really a demand for it?

If you want to meet accessibility guidelines, yes.

> And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
> that should not be scalable?

You cannot. Your layout needs to expand in concert with the expansion of
the content. This means that you cannot use absolute positioned elements to
contain text unless there is no danger of overlap in your design, for one
thing.

> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
> (Ctrl+Scroll)?

No.

> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
> order between navigation hyperlinks?

Use the tabindex attribute of the link or element tag, e.g.,

<a href="foo.html" tabindex="4">Foo</a>

--
Murray
============

"Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
XPP SP2
FrontPage 2003 SP2




Hello,

Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well as
in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites, in
an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to their
sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about
organizations aimed a large or wide audience.

Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print brochures
in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access to
our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible,
without going overboard.

Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested this
in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used for
testing purposes.

My questions:



1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts to
character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through Alt
plus a character)?
Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F
(File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively, are
underscored.


2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites have
scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there
really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
that should not be scalable?


3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
(Ctrl+Scroll)?


4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
order between navigation hyperlinks?

I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this issue, or
references to sites discussing it.

Best regards,


Eric G
Stockholm, Sweden

Murray,


Sorry for the delay in replying.

Well, I'm not going to argue the point with scalable fonts as such, but at the same time I must say that over the years, I have not - as far as I cam remember - come across a site where the scalable font implementation worked flawlessly. And I have checked. That is not to say that there aren't any, just that I haven't come across any of those well designed sites, even though looking hard. It's easy to find sites where you can find scalable fonts, but as far as I can tell, most of those sites have scalable fonts due to designer oversight, ie they have missed controlling all font occurrences through the css. very often you also find that just the bullets in a list is scalable. Or a menu, or something else that really shouldn't be scalable. I'm not trying to be facetious, but when I look at the main page at http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm observing that just the bullets are scalable, nothing else, but it is an example of how difficult this issue with scalable fonts is.

I really appreciate your input and the direct help with the tabindex attribute, an implementation that we've overlooked previously, but now will implement. Thank you.

Your help and comments are as valuable as always. Much appreciated.

Best regards,


Eric G
Stockholm, Sweden




"Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>
> I think so. So do others who need to enlarge the font to read it clearly.
>
>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable.
>
> Not on a well built site.
>
>> Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it
>> implemented by mistake)
>
> I don't find this to be the case.
>
>> and is there really a demand for it?
>
> If you want to meet accessibility guidelines, yes.
>
>> And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
>> that should not be scalable?
>
> You cannot. Your layout needs to expand in concert with the expansion of
> the content. This means that you cannot use absolute positioned elements to
> contain text unless there is no danger of overlap in your design, for one
> thing.
>
>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
> No.
>
>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
> Use the tabindex attribute of the link or element tag, e.g.,
>
> <a href="foo.html" tabindex="4">Foo</a>
>
> --
> Murray
> ============
>
> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> XPP SP2
> FrontPage 2003 SP2
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well as
> in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites, in
> an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to their
> sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about
> organizations aimed a large or wide audience.
>
> Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
> forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print brochures
> in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access to
> our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible,
> without going overboard.
>
> Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested this
> in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
> http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
> absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used for
> testing purposes.
>
> My questions:
>
>
>
> 1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts to
> character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through Alt
> plus a character)?
> Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F
> (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively, are
> underscored.
>
>
> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites have
> scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there
> really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
> that should not be scalable?
>
>
> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
>
> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
> I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this issue, or
> references to sites discussing it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Eric G
> Stockholm, Sweden
>
>

> but when I look at the main page at http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm
> observing that just the bullets are scalable, > nothing else, but it is an
> example of how difficult this issue with scalable fonts is.

Try it in any browser other than IE. Or try it in IE with accessability
options enabled. But just for you, I'll change it. That's easy to do since
I have used CSS to create the pages.

Try this site - http://www.redwoodfs.com
Try this site - http://www.savannahweddings.com
Try this site - http://www.modocs.org/t_index.shtml
Try this site - http://www.csszengarden.com


--
Murray
============

"Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
Murray,


Sorry for the delay in replying.

Well, I'm not going to argue the point with scalable fonts as such, but at
the same time I must say that over the years, I have not - as far as I cam
remember - come across a site where the scalable font implementation worked
flawlessly. And I have checked. That is not to say that there aren't any,
just that I haven't come across any of those well designed sites, even
though looking hard. It's easy to find sites where you can find scalable
fonts, but as far as I can tell, most of those sites have scalable fonts due
to designer oversight, ie they have missed controlling all font occurrences
through the css. very often you also find that just the bullets in a list is
scalable. Or a menu, or something else that really shouldn't be scalable.
I'm not trying to be facetious, but when I look at the main page at
http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm observing that just the bullets are
scalable, nothing else, but it is an example of how difficult this issue
with scalable fonts is.

I really appreciate your input and the direct help with the tabindex
attribute, an implementation that we've overlooked previously, but now will
implement. Thank you.

Your help and comments are as valuable as always. Much appreciated.

Best regards,


Eric G
Stockholm, Sweden




"Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>
> I think so. So do others who need to enlarge the font to read it clearly.
>
>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable.
>
> Not on a well built site.
>
>> Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it
>> implemented by mistake)
>
> I don't find this to be the case.
>
>> and is there really a demand for it?
>
> If you want to meet accessibility guidelines, yes.
>
>> And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
>> that should not be scalable?
>
> You cannot. Your layout needs to expand in concert with the expansion of
> the content. This means that you cannot use absolute positioned elements
> to
> contain text unless there is no danger of overlap in your design, for one
> thing.
>
>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
> No.
>
>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
> Use the tabindex attribute of the link or element tag, e.g.,
>
> <a href="foo.html" tabindex="4">Foo</a>
>
> --
> Murray
> ============
>
> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> XPP SP2
> FrontPage 2003 SP2
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well as
> in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites, in
> an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to their
> sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about
> organizations aimed a large or wide audience.
>
> Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
> forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print
> brochures
> in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access to
> our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible,
> without going overboard.
>
> Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested this
> in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
> http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
> absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used
> for
> testing purposes.
>
> My questions:
>
>
>
> 1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts
> to
> character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through
> Alt
> plus a character)?
> Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F
> (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively, are
> underscored.
>
>
> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites
> have
> scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there
> really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
> that should not be scalable?
>
>
> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
>
> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
> I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this issue,
> or
> references to sites discussing it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Eric G
> Stockholm, Sweden
>
>

Those are all good things.

Craig

Eric G wrote:

> XPP SP2
>
> FrontPage 2003 SP2
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in
> <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" />Sweden, as well as in
> many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites,
> in an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility
> to their sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking
> about organizations aimed a large or wide audience.
>
> Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
> forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print
> brochures in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have
> easy access to our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore
> what is possible, without going overboard.
>
> Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested
> this in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
> http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
> absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only
> used for testing purposes.
>
> My questions:
>
> <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
> "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
>
> 1. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign “underscore” keyboard
> shortcuts to character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP
> (accessible through Alt plus a character)?
> Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus;
> Alt+F (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the “F” and “T”,
> respectively, are underscored.
>
> 2. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few
> sites have scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by
> mistake), and is there really a demand for it? And, how do you
> control vertical movement of areas that should not be scalable?
>
> 3. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
>
> 4. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control
> tab order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
>
> I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this
> issue, or references to sites discussing it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Eric G
> Stockholm, Sweden

>> sites have scalable fonts due to designer oversight
No, most have sites have scalable fonts due to a designer's care, that takes
into account non-modern, limited accesibilty featured browsers like IE.

People generally go to websites either for information or to purchase
something. Although your site may be "pretty", if it can't be read, both
goals will not be attained, and your site is effectively useless.

So, if a poor-sighted person (me, and probably a minority of your visitors),
or a person running their monitor at a high resolution (also me, but also a
much higher percentage of other visitors), goes to your site, you lose them
(maybe not me - I use a modern browser).

And, as Murray pointed out, people with modern browsers (a large, and
growing group) don't have to deal with the issue.

So, you are spinning your wheels trying to force your "design" on your
viewers. If it's that important to you though, may I suggest a career in
print media?

Bob Lehmann

"Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
Murray,


Sorry for the delay in replying.

Well, I'm not going to argue the point with scalable fonts as such, but at
the same time I must say that over the years, I have not - as far as I cam
remember - come across a site where the scalable font implementation worked
flawlessly. And I have checked. That is not to say that there aren't any,
just that I haven't come across any of those well designed sites, even
though looking hard. It's easy to find sites where you can find scalable
fonts, but as far as I can tell, most of those sites have scalable fonts due
to designer oversight, ie they have missed controlling all font occurrences
through the css. very often you also find that just the bullets in a list is
scalable. Or a menu, or something else that really shouldn't be scalable.
I'm not trying to be facetious, but when I look at the main page at
http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm observing that just the bullets are
scalable, nothing else, but it is an example of how difficult this issue
with scalable fonts is.

I really appreciate your input and the direct help with the tabindex
attribute, an implementation that we've overlooked previously, but now will
implement. Thank you.

Your help and comments are as valuable as always. Much appreciated.

Best regards,


Eric G
Stockholm, Sweden




"Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>
> I think so. So do others who need to enlarge the font to read it clearly.
>
>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable.
>
> Not on a well built site.
>
>> Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it
>> implemented by mistake)
>
> I don't find this to be the case.
>
>> and is there really a demand for it?
>
> If you want to meet accessibility guidelines, yes.
>
>> And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
>> that should not be scalable?
>
> You cannot. Your layout needs to expand in concert with the expansion of
> the content. This means that you cannot use absolute positioned elements
to
> contain text unless there is no danger of overlap in your design, for one
> thing.
>
>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
> No.
>
>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
> Use the tabindex attribute of the link or element tag, e.g.,
>
> <a href="foo.html" tabindex="4">Foo</a>
>
> --
> Murray
> ============
>
> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> XPP SP2
> FrontPage 2003 SP2
>
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well as
> in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites, in
> an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to their
> sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about
> organizations aimed a large or wide audience.
>
> Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
> forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print
brochures
> in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access to
> our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible,
> without going overboard.
>
> Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested this
> in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
> http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
> absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used
for
> testing purposes.
>
> My questions:
>
>
>
> 1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts
to
> character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through
Alt
> plus a character)?
> Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F
> (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively, are
> underscored.
>
>
> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites
have
> scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there
> really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
> that should not be scalable?
>
>
> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>
>
> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>
> I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this issue,
or
> references to sites discussing it.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Eric G
> Stockholm, Sweden
>
>

Good morning Murry,

As I said, I didn't mean to be facetious, it was just an observation about
how difficult this implementation of scalable fonts can be, even in the best
of families.

I also took your advise to have a look at various sites through other
browsers, and sure there are differences, but hen the next problem is that
(good or bad) a majority of Windows users us IE6 or some previous version.

I have looked at the sites you referred to, and see well implemented schemes
for scalable fonts. But I also see some minor problems.

One example, on redwoodfs.com, which, by the way, has a nice, simple, easy
to navigate and straight forward design concept (which I like), there the 3
links to Lending, Insurance and Retirement hyperlinks are not scalable. It's
of minor importance, but still it's an issue when discussing the perfect
implementation of scalable fonts. Redwoodfs.com also has an examplary
implementaton of tabbing between hyperlinks, which gave me some new ideas.

On the savannahweddings.com site I notice that the header logo image reveals
a serif font representation of teh company name when you scale the page (in
IE6), while the modocs.org works very well. One nice touch on this site is
also the Expand all/Collapse all feature that makes the navigation even
easier.

I've been a frequent visitor to the csszengardens.com in the past, but now I
can\t get it to display the scalability at all (IE6), even though it's a
good example of what one can do with css.

I'm most grateful for your assistance and suggestions on this matter, and
you've helped me a bit further on the way, while at the same time provided
me with new ideas.

Once again, thank you and greetings from a cold, grey, wet and (presently)
awful place called Stockholm.


Eric G











"Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> but when I look at the main page at http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm
>> observing that just the bullets are scalable, > nothing else, but it is
>> an example of how difficult this issue with scalable fonts is.
>
> Try it in any browser other than IE. Or try it in IE with accessability
> options enabled. But just for you, I'll change it. That's easy to do
> since I have used CSS to create the pages.
>
> Try this site - http://www.redwoodfs.com
> Try this site - http://www.savannahweddings.com
> Try this site - http://www.modocs.org/t_index.shtml
> Try this site - http://www.csszengarden.com
>
>
> --
> Murray
> ============
>
> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Murray,
>
>
> Sorry for the delay in replying.
>
> Well, I'm not going to argue the point with scalable fonts as such, but at
> the same time I must say that over the years, I have not - as far as I cam
> remember - come across a site where the scalable font implementation
> worked flawlessly. And I have checked. That is not to say that there
> aren't any, just that I haven't come across any of those well designed
> sites, even though looking hard. It's easy to find sites where you can
> find scalable fonts, but as far as I can tell, most of those sites have
> scalable fonts due to designer oversight, ie they have missed controlling
> all font occurrences through the css. very often you also find that just
> the bullets in a list is scalable. Or a menu, or something else that
> really shouldn't be scalable. I'm not trying to be facetious, but when I
> look at the main page at http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm observing
> that just the bullets are scalable, nothing else, but it is an example of
> how difficult this issue with scalable fonts is.
>
> I really appreciate your input and the direct help with the tabindex
> attribute, an implementation that we've overlooked previously, but now
> will implement. Thank you.
>
> Your help and comments are as valuable as always. Much appreciated.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Eric G
> Stockholm, Sweden
>
>
>
>
> "Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>>
>> I think so. So do others who need to enlarge the font to read it
>> clearly.
>>
>>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable.
>>
>> Not on a well built site.
>>
>>> Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it
>>> implemented by mistake)
>>
>> I don't find this to be the case.
>>
>>> and is there really a demand for it?
>>
>> If you want to meet accessibility guidelines, yes.
>>
>>> And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
>>> that should not be scalable?
>>
>> You cannot. Your layout needs to expand in concert with the expansion of
>> the content. This means that you cannot use absolute positioned elements
>> to
>> contain text unless there is no danger of overlap in your design, for one
>> thing.
>>
>>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>>
>> Use the tabindex attribute of the link or element tag, e.g.,
>>
>> <a href="foo.html" tabindex="4">Foo</a>
>>
>> --
>> Murray
>> ============
>>
>> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> XPP SP2
>> FrontPage 2003 SP2
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well
>> as
>> in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites,
>> in
>> an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to
>> their
>> sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about
>> organizations aimed a large or wide audience.
>>
>> Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
>> forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print
>> brochures
>> in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access to
>> our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible,
>> without going overboard.
>>
>> Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested
>> this
>> in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
>> http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
>> absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used
>> for
>> testing purposes.
>>
>> My questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts
>> to
>> character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through
>> Alt
>> plus a character)?
>> Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F
>> (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively, are
>> underscored.
>>
>>
>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites
>> have
>> scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there
>> really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of
>> areas
>> that should not be scalable?
>>
>>
>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>>
>>
>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>>
>> I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this issue,
>> or
>> references to sites discussing it.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Eric G
>> Stockholm, Sweden
>>
>>
>
>

> a majority of Windows users us IE6 or some previous version.

Yes, unfortunately. And, those who *need* to make text larger to read it
already know how to enable the accessibilty options so that they can do so
easily in IE, even when text is sized with a pixel metric. Any more, I just
use text font size names to build most of my pages, e.g.,

small, medium, etc.

Since they resize easily.

> Lending, Insurance and Retirement hyperlinks are not scalable

That's because they are images, but yes, they do not scale.

> perfect implementation of scalable fonts.

I guess you will always find compromises. The real point is not achievement
of some arbitrary goal, but the achievement of a site design that
accommodates resized content without becoming completely unusable. And to
get back to practical matters, sites that are built using layers (or more
precisely absolute positioning) as an exclusive layout methodology (for some
reason this seems like the minimum in the energy curve for new developers
since they all do it) are a good example of those that become completely
unusable when the text is resized. I am guessing that in each of those
sites I mentioned, they would be fully usable even at the largest font
sizes.

> On the savannahweddings.com site I notice that the header logo image
> reveals
> a serif font representation

Yeah - that's a way of having your font yet providing the search engine
spiders with some juicy, readable <h1> content, doncha know?

> One nice touch on this site is
> also the Expand all/Collapse all feature that makes the navigation even
> easier.

That's not too hard to do in FP....

> Once again, thank you and greetings from a cold, grey, wet and (presently)
> awful place called Stockholm.

You're welcome! Philadelphia waves back....

--
Murray
============

"Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%23CY6ZB%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Good morning Murry,
>
> As I said, I didn't mean to be facetious, it was just an observation about
> how difficult this implementation of scalable fonts can be, even in the
> best
> of families.
>
> I also took your advise to have a look at various sites through other
> browsers, and sure there are differences, but hen the next problem is that
> (good or bad) a majority of Windows users us IE6 or some previous version.
>
> I have looked at the sites you referred to, and see well implemented
> schemes
> for scalable fonts. But I also see some minor problems.
>
> One example, on redwoodfs.com, which, by the way, has a nice, simple, easy
> to navigate and straight forward design concept (which I like), there the
> 3
> links to Lending, Insurance and Retirement hyperlinks are not scalable.
> It's
> of minor importance, but still it's an issue when discussing the perfect
> implementation of scalable fonts. Redwoodfs.com also has an examplary
> implementaton of tabbing between hyperlinks, which gave me some new ideas.
>
> On the savannahweddings.com site I notice that the header logo image
> reveals
> a serif font representation of teh company name when you scale the page
> (in
> IE6), while the modocs.org works very well. One nice touch on this site is
> also the Expand all/Collapse all feature that makes the navigation even
> easier.
>
> I've been a frequent visitor to the csszengardens.com in the past, but now
> I
> can\t get it to display the scalability at all (IE6), even though it's a
> good example of what one can do with css.
>
> I'm most grateful for your assistance and suggestions on this matter, and
> you've helped me a bit further on the way, while at the same time provided
> me with new ideas.
>
> Once again, thank you and greetings from a cold, grey, wet and (presently)
> awful place called Stockholm.
>
>
> Eric G
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> but when I look at the main page at http://www.great-web-sights.com/,
>>> I'm
>>> observing that just the bullets are scalable, > nothing else, but it is
>>> an example of how difficult this issue with scalable fonts is.
>>
>> Try it in any browser other than IE. Or try it in IE with accessability
>> options enabled. But just for you, I'll change it. That's easy to do
>> since I have used CSS to create the pages.
>>
>> Try this site - http://www.redwoodfs.com
>> Try this site - http://www.savannahweddings.com
>> Try this site - http://www.modocs.org/t_index.shtml
>> Try this site - http://www.csszengarden.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Murray
>> ============
>>
>> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Murray,
>>
>>
>> Sorry for the delay in replying.
>>
>> Well, I'm not going to argue the point with scalable fonts as such, but
>> at
>> the same time I must say that over the years, I have not - as far as I
>> cam
>> remember - come across a site where the scalable font implementation
>> worked flawlessly. And I have checked. That is not to say that there
>> aren't any, just that I haven't come across any of those well designed
>> sites, even though looking hard. It's easy to find sites where you can
>> find scalable fonts, but as far as I can tell, most of those sites have
>> scalable fonts due to designer oversight, ie they have missed controlling
>> all font occurrences through the css. very often you also find that just
>> the bullets in a list is scalable. Or a menu, or something else that
>> really shouldn't be scalable. I'm not trying to be facetious, but when I
>> look at the main page at http://www.great-web-sights.com/, I'm observing
>> that just the bullets are scalable, nothing else, but it is an example of
>> how difficult this issue with scalable fonts is.
>>
>> I really appreciate your input and the direct help with the tabindex
>> attribute, an implementation that we've overlooked previously, but now
>> will implement. Thank you.
>>
>> Your help and comments are as valuable as always. Much appreciated.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Eric G
>> Stockholm, Sweden
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Murray" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>>>
>>> I think so. So do others who need to enlarge the font to read it
>>> clearly.
>>>
>>>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable.
>>>
>>> Not on a well built site.
>>>
>>>> Few sites have scalable fonts (and some have it
>>>> implemented by mistake)
>>>
>>> I don't find this to be the case.
>>>
>>>> and is there really a demand for it?
>>>
>>> If you want to meet accessibility guidelines, yes.
>>>
>>>> And, how do you control vertical movement of areas
>>>> that should not be scalable?
>>>
>>> You cannot. Your layout needs to expand in concert with the expansion
>>> of
>>> the content. This means that you cannot use absolute positioned
>>> elements
>>> to
>>> contain text unless there is no danger of overlap in your design, for
>>> one
>>> thing.
>>>
>>>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>>>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>>>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>>>
>>> Use the tabindex attribute of the link or element tag, e.g.,
>>>
>>> <a href="foo.html" tabindex="4">Foo</a>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Murray
>>> ============
>>>
>>> "Eric G" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> XPP SP2
>>> FrontPage 2003 SP2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Accessibility to web sites is becoming an issue here in Sweden, as well
>>> as
>>> in many other countries. Independent organizations test and rate sites,
>>> in
>>> an effort to put pressure on site owners to improve accessibility to
>>> their
>>> sites, which might be a good idea, particularly when talking about
>>> organizations aimed a large or wide audience.
>>>
>>> Even though we do not wholeheartedly subscribe some of the issues put
>>> forward in the name of accessibility (we do not for example print
>>> brochures
>>> in extra large print for the sight impaired, while we have easy access
>>> to
>>> our offices for wheelchairs), we still want to explore what is possible,
>>> without going overboard.
>>>
>>> Expandable font-size (Ctrl+Scroll wheel) is one issue. We have tested
>>> this
>>> in a mock-up page (without working hyperlinks) located at
>>> http://northerncruiser.com. This site is a spare site of ours, and has
>>> absolutely no connection whatsoever to the actual content, it only used
>>> for
>>> testing purposes.
>>>
>>> My questions:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.. Is it possible in FP 2003 to assign "underscore" keyboard shortcuts
>>> to
>>> character hyperlinks on a web page produced with FP (accessible through
>>> Alt
>>> plus a character)?
>>> Just like in the FrontPage (and other Office applications) menus; Alt+F
>>> (File menu), Alt+T (Tools menu), where the "F" and "T", respectively,
>>> are
>>> underscored.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2.. Is it a good idea to have scalable fonts on a site?
>>> It really messes up the layout and is rather unpredictable. Few sites
>>> have
>>> scalable fonts (and some have it implemented by mistake), and is there
>>> really a demand for it? And, how do you control vertical movement of
>>> areas
>>> that should not be scalable?
>>>
>>>
>>> 3.. Is it possible to scale images at the same time as you scale text
>>> (Ctrl+Scroll)?
>>>
>>>
>>> 4.. How do you enable tabbing (by Tab key), and how do you control tab
>>> order between navigation hyperlinks?
>>>
>>> I would be grateful for any ideas and/or suggestion regarding this
>>> issue,
>>> or
>>> references to sites discussing it.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Eric G
>>> Stockholm, Sweden
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>