I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp
8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are
small dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or
even the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That
color alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when
printing photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the
100-200+ range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.

jonsnow3000 <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
> photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
> quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp
> 8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are
> small dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or
> even the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That
> color alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when
> printing photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the
> 100-200+ range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.
>

Well, Canon and Epson use arond 13-15ml color carts, but Epsons are a
little more agressive for cleaning, so I'd have to say the Canon.

> I was looking at the hp 8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml

Don't be discouraged by the small size, and actually the size ranges
from 4.5ml to 10ml

> Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That color alway ran out for me in my hp
> deskjet 712c

This would explain why the yellow is larger.

HP 8250: #02
Black 10ml
Cyan 4ml
Magenta 3.5ml
Yellow 6ml
L Cyan 5.5ml
L Magenta 5.5ml

While the black is only 10ml, it's rated for 480 pages, I presume at 5%
yield. I felt the same way you did, but canon has done nothing about
ink efficency in years, and their ink is the same basic stuff they've
been using for years. HP also has a closed loop cleaning system which
wastes less.

> I also like the canon 5200(are small dots better extra colors?) and 6600

The ip6000/i960/epson r200 filled the quite with light magenta and
light cyan... and made for really smooth skintones even under a
magnafying glass. The ip5200 looks good, damn good, but I'd still lean
tward the more costly ip8500 with it's 8 tanks.

The HP however works really well on swellable paper which tends to
offer the longest print life... and also the longest dry time. The
Canon looks best on microporious paper which offers the least dry time
but is more prone to faiding. You can extend this by spraying your
prints with a UV shield or putting them under glass. But without a
doubt canon is faster from print dry. Epson isn't bad either.


Another consideration is bulk ink. This is very much supported by
aftermarket makers on the epson, and an r200 with external tanks is
very easy to refill and you can chuck out hundrads of prints.

The canon also has bulk ink, but your options are limited on the
ip4200/5200/6600 due to the chips in the cartridge. Manual filling of
the exiting cartridge is the only option, and bulk feed systems have to
be made your self presently.
--------

But assuming OEM ink, my bet would be on Canon ip4200/5200 for least
cost per page. Only 4 tanks to replace, use of white and small dots
for graduated colors.

The last time I crunched the numbers, the hp8250 and ip6000/960 were
actually pretty close to being on par with eachother. I lack hands on
experence with the 8250.

It's hard for me to judge the epson r200 because of it's wasteful
nature. One can manualy change out the cartridges without hitting that
cleaning cycle if one is careful. But empty cartridges tend to have 2
to 4ml of ink left in them when "I wont print it's empty". But this
the r200 dispite it's flaws is my vote for skintones. I can't say how
the 8250 is vs the i960/ip6000/ip6600.

"jonsnow3000" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
> photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
> quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp
> 8250, but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon
> 5200(are small dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based
> printers) or even the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink
> first? That color always ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c.

The $10 yellow ink cartridge for the Photosmart 8250 is rated at 170 4x6
photos, scale this for 8x10. For other HP printers see
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/us/en/index.html. Be aware that
ml/cartridge is a rather poor measure of print economy. Differences in
writing system efficiency (how many drops per page) and servicing
efficiency (how often and how much ink is used to keep the nozzles
clear) make a very large difference in ink economy. The Photosmart 8250
has a novel method of recirculating ink used for servicing rather then
dumping it in a large diaper in the bottom of the printer.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

Bob Headrick wrote:

> The $10 yellow ink cartridge for the Photosmart 8250 is rated at 170 4x6
> photos, scale this for 8x10.



Does anybody know the page ratings for the canon and epson yellow
cartridges? Any info on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

> Does anybody know the page ratings for the canon and epson yellow
> cartridges? Any info on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

8.5x11 280p @ 5% yield if i'm not mistaken. I'd wager 28pages full
sized prints from a given cartridge at 50% yield. I have seen the
30ish to 40 DVD covers from one set of full tanks on my ip3000. For me
it's either Magenta or Yellow to go first.

"jonsnow3000" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
> photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
> quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp 8250,
> but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are small
> dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or even
> the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That color
> alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when printing
> photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the 100-200+
> range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.

Your last sentence changes the whole issue. If you want to sell prints you
will have to consider the longevity of the prints your customers will pay
good money for. Epson pigmented-ink based printers are reputed to produce
prints with the most fade resistance of any inkjets at this time. Canon
dye-based ink printers can produce beautiful prints, buy fade resistance is
much lower. Canon has just brought pigment - based ink printers to market
but these are more expensive. In addition, I wouldn't want to be the first
kid on the block to own one until they are out there for a year or so and
prove to be relatively trouble free. I've read that Epson printers have
better profiles for color control. I know that Canon i960's lean a little
to the red or magenta side and have to be tweaked a bit for faces with
strong red tones.

As far as the cost of prints is concerned, several of us on this newsgroup
refill our Canon bci-6 and bci-3ebk carts with aftermarket inks formulated
for out printers. Unfortunately, the present line of pixmas, of which the
6600 is one, now have computer chips on the carts and no compatable carts
are presently available. There are a few vendors who are selling compatable
bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas, but the printer recognizes when
you use a refilled cart that had previously been used until the out of ink
signal came up on the ink monitor. It will let you continue to print after
issuing a warning. There are still some i9900 printers out there that are
selling at a reasonably good price, and there are lots of compatable carts
as well as good bulk inks out there from which to choose. (MIS, Formulabs,
and Hobbicolors seem to be the favorites with participants on this NG.)
The added benefit of the i9900 is the ability to print in larger formats.
With MIS inks and Costco glossy photo paper I guess that my i960 produces
8x10 (or 8.5x11) prints for around 30 cents or less. That is only a guess
as I've never counted the number of prints I get per cart. The ink cost is
about 10% of what Canon OEM carts cost. The only problem for you would be
the fading issue for prints you'd want to sell. The compatable inks are a
bit less resistant to fading as compared to the OEM Canon inks. Having said
that, I have had framed pictures on the wall for a year and a half that
still look great.

Bottom line - if you want to stay with Canon and if you want to refill your
carts for greatest savings in cost and if your budget will stretch a bit up
front, try to find a, i9900 before they are sold out. Great printers.

Unfortunately,

Burt wrote:
> "jonsnow3000" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>I'm a graphics artist and print a lot of 8x10's. I was wondering what
>>photo printer would print 8x10's the cheapest per page but be high
>>quality, especially in printing skin tones. I was looking at the hp 8250,
>>but the cartridges are around 5 ml. I also like the canon 5200(are small
>>dots better extra colors?) and 6600(or any i960 based printers) or even
>>the epson 200. Which one would run out of yellow ink first? That color
>>alway ran out for me in my hp deskjet 712c. Especially when printing
>>photos for reference in portrait painting. My budget is in the 100-200+
>>range. I also thinking of using it to sell prints of my artwork.
>
>
> Your last sentence changes the whole issue. If you want to sell prints you
> will have to consider the longevity of the prints your customers will pay
> good money for. Epson pigmented-ink based printers are reputed to produce
> prints with the most fade resistance of any inkjets at this time. Canon
> dye-based ink printers can produce beautiful prints, buy fade resistance is
> much lower. Canon has just brought pigment - based ink printers to market
> but these are more expensive. In addition, I wouldn't want to be the first
> kid on the block to own one until they are out there for a year or so and
> prove to be relatively trouble free. I've read that Epson printers have
> better profiles for color control. I know that Canon i960's lean a little
> to the red or magenta side and have to be tweaked a bit for faces with
> strong red tones.
>
> As far as the cost of prints is concerned, several of us on this newsgroup
> refill our Canon bci-6 and bci-3ebk carts with aftermarket inks formulated
> for out printers. Unfortunately, the present line of pixmas, of which the
> 6600 is one, now have computer chips on the carts and no compatable carts
> are presently available. There are a few vendors who are selling compatable
> bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas, but the printer recognizes when
> you use a refilled cart that had previously been used until the out of ink
> signal came up on the ink monitor. It will let you continue to print after
> issuing a warning. There are still some i9900 printers out there that are
> selling at a reasonably good price, and there are lots of compatable carts
> as well as good bulk inks out there from which to choose. (MIS, Formulabs,
> and Hobbicolors seem to be the favorites with participants on this NG.)
> The added benefit of the i9900 is the ability to print in larger formats.
> With MIS inks and Costco glossy photo paper I guess that my i960 produces
> 8x10 (or 8.5x11) prints for around 30 cents or less. That is only a guess
> as I've never counted the number of prints I get per cart. The ink cost is
> about 10% of what Canon OEM carts cost. The only problem for you would be
> the fading issue for prints you'd want to sell. The compatable inks are a
> bit less resistant to fading as compared to the OEM Canon inks. Having said
> that, I have had framed pictures on the wall for a year and a half that
> still look great.
>
> Bottom line - if you want to stay with Canon and if you want to refill your
> carts for greatest savings in cost and if your budget will stretch a bit up
> front, try to find a, i9900 before they are sold out. Great printers.
>
> Unfortunately,
>
>
The hp8250 inks are rated at 100 years but some complain about it being
grainy so I don't know if it's the best choice for prints.

> The hp8250 inks are rated at 100 years but some complain about it being
> grainy so I don't know if it's the best choice for prints.

The ink is rated for 100 years on their paper. Using the same type of
paper Canon inks will have longer print life than on their own photo
glossy plus. Ilford Smooth Pearl is a legit option but i've never seen
it used on the Canon so I don't know if it looks any good. Pigments
will are more resistant to light and gas by their design.

You can get the Epson r800 referb from the Epson store "right" now for
$200 with free shipping. You can get bulk feed for the r800 and decent
pigments for long print life. While I do consider Epsons to be fickle
creatures they do offer pigment printing which is really where it's at
as far as selling prints.

There are some other options in Epson too in used circles, but I can't
remember the model numbers off the top of my head.

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:34:48 GMT, "Burt" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:


>As far as the cost of prints is concerned, several of us on this newsgroup
>refill our Canon bci-6 and bci-3ebk carts with aftermarket inks formulated
>for out printers. Unfortunately, the present line of pixmas, of which the
>6600 is one, now have computer chips on the carts and no compatable carts
>are presently available. There are a few vendors who are selling compatable
>bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas, but the printer recognizes when
>you use a refilled cart that had previously been used until the out of ink
>signal came up on the ink monitor. It will let you continue to print after
>issuing a warning. There are still some i9900 printers out there that are
>selling at a reasonably good price, and there are lots of compatable carts
>as well as good bulk inks out there from which to choose. (MIS, Formulabs,
>and Hobbicolors seem to be the favorites with participants on this NG.)
>The added benefit of the i9900 is the ability to print in larger formats.
>With MIS inks and Costco glossy photo paper I guess that my i960 produces
>8x10 (or 8.5x11) prints for around 30 cents or less. That is only a guess
>as I've never counted the number of prints I get per cart. The ink cost is
>about 10% of what Canon OEM carts cost. The only problem for you would be
>the fading issue for prints you'd want to sell. The compatable inks are a
>bit less resistant to fading as compared to the OEM Canon inks. Having said
>that, I have had framed pictures on the wall for a year and a half that
>still look great.
>

Can the new bulk inks for refilling the newest pixmas be used in the
bci-6 cartridges for use in a IP5000? This would seem to get the best
of voth worlds.