I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
the following:

must haves:
excellent B&W printing
excellent color printing
good or better text printing
half decent speed

nice to haves:

print to cd media
2 sided printing
on board printing controls
direct media input (memory sticks etc..)

I'm not all that hung up on the print from printer or read from cards
etc... features as I will likely always use the PC, but it may be nice
for my wife to use, ditto with the print to cd media - nice for cd gifts
etc.. but is it worth the extra cost of the media?

I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
(sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided
printing and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to
have *some* knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of
all these three, and they both agreed that the refills were more
economical than the others. The downside was the printhead may give
grief if not used frequently. The plus for the HP was that printheads
are built in, therefore always "new", but expensive, when I asked how
much better the B&W output was I got blank stares. The epson plus was
the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
goes to the canon.

I guess the deciding factor will be the cost of refills and the B&W
output, as any reviews I have read online only cloud the issue more.

Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
SCSI scanjet!

Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?

TIA & cheers!

Epson R300.

Bill Crocker


"Glen S" <whoknows@no_spam.com> wrote in message
news:tmFyd.13361$nN6.12064@edtnps84...
>I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
>the following:
>
> must haves:
> excellent B&W printing
> excellent color printing
> good or better text printing
> half decent speed
>
> nice to haves:
>
> print to cd media
> 2 sided printing
> on board printing controls
> direct media input (memory sticks etc..)
>
> I'm not all that hung up on the print from printer or read from cards
> etc... features as I will likely always use the PC, but it may be nice for
> my wife to use, ditto with the print to cd media - nice for cd gifts etc..
> but is it worth the extra cost of the media?
>
> I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
> (sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
> like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
> as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
> cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided printing
> and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to have *some*
> knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of all these
> three, and they both agreed that the refills were more economical than the
> others. The downside was the printhead may give grief if not used
> frequently. The plus for the HP was that printheads are built in,
> therefore always "new", but expensive, when I asked how much better the
> B&W output was I got blank stares. The epson plus was the printable media,
> but if the canon has that as well then the edge goes to the canon.
>
> I guess the deciding factor will be the cost of refills and the B&W
> output, as any reviews I have read online only cloud the issue more.
>
> Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
> one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and* scans
> a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C SCSI
> scanjet!
>
> Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?
>
> TIA & cheers!

Glen S wrote:

>I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
>the following:
>
>must haves:
>excellent B&W printing
>excellent color printing
>good or better text printing
>half decent speed

The above applies to most printers, but for good B&W printing, you
really need a photo-grey cartridge.

>I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
>(sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
>like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
>as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
>cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided
>printing and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to
>have *some* knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of
>all these three,

Output quality depends on a lot of factors. But if you use genuine ink
and photo paper, all of them produce excellent photos that would be as
good or better than lab prints.

> and they both agreed that the refills were more
>economical than the others.

If you mean ink costs, then no they're all quite similar. If you
correctly compare prices of the various cartridges, you'll find they're
pretty close in price.

> The downside was the printhead may give
>grief if not used frequently.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter if the printer is used a lot or
a little, the printheads just don't seem to last as long as Canon
claims.

My Canon i850 never had a clog until a few days before it died. Then the
printhead failed completely and without any other warning. A new head
cost as much as a new printer of similar design, so I dumped it.

> The plus for the HP was that printheads
>are built in, therefore always "new", but expensive,

Since I've owned both Canon and HP printers, I can assure you that ink
costs for HP is not what many people claim.

If you look at the prices on the shelves, the HP seems more expensive up
front because the colour cartridge contains all three colours. But page
yield from the HP is similar to Canon's ink tanks (x 3) and costs are
similar.

You can't compare a 3-colour cartridge to a 1-colour ink tank. You need
to buy all three ink tanks to get equivalent page yields and colours.
That's why Canon (and Epson) SEEMS to be cheaper, but they're not.

> when I asked how
>much better the B&W output was I got blank stares.

Currently the HP with its grey photo cartridge is among the best in this
regard. You can read some reviews for specific details, but my own
prints blow the Canon and Epson away.

> The epson plus was
>the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
>goes to the canon.

I don't believe Canon or HP allow CD/DVD printing in north america due
to silly intervention laws.

>Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
>one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
>scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
>SCSI scanjet!

If you want an all in one unit, then all of the above is moot.

Bill wrote:
> Glen S wrote:
>
>
>>I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
>>the following:
>>
>>must haves:
>>excellent B&W printing
>>excellent color printing
>>good or better text printing
>>half decent speed
>
>
> The above applies to most printers, but for good B&W printing, you
> really need a photo-grey cartridge.
>
>
>>I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
>>(sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
>>like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
>>as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
>>cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided
>>printing and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to
>>have *some* knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of
>>all these three,
>
>
> Output quality depends on a lot of factors. But if you use genuine ink
> and photo paper, all of them produce excellent photos that would be as
> good or better than lab prints.
>
>
>>and they both agreed that the refills were more
>>economical than the others.
>
>
> If you mean ink costs, then no they're all quite similar. If you
> correctly compare prices of the various cartridges, you'll find they're
> pretty close in price.
>
>
>>The downside was the printhead may give
>>grief if not used frequently.
>
>
> Unfortunately it doesn't seem to matter if the printer is used a lot or
> a little, the printheads just don't seem to last as long as Canon
> claims.
>
> My Canon i850 never had a clog until a few days before it died. Then the
> printhead failed completely and without any other warning. A new head
> cost as much as a new printer of similar design, so I dumped it.
>
>
>> The plus for the HP was that printheads
>>are built in, therefore always "new", but expensive,
>
>
> Since I've owned both Canon and HP printers, I can assure you that ink
> costs for HP is not what many people claim.
>
> If you look at the prices on the shelves, the HP seems more expensive up
> front because the colour cartridge contains all three colours. But page
> yield from the HP is similar to Canon's ink tanks (x 3) and costs are
> similar.
>
> You can't compare a 3-colour cartridge to a 1-colour ink tank. You need
> to buy all three ink tanks to get equivalent page yields and colours.
> That's why Canon (and Epson) SEEMS to be cheaper, but they're not.
>
>
>>when I asked how
>>much better the B&W output was I got blank stares.
>
>
> Currently the HP with its grey photo cartridge is among the best in this
> regard. You can read some reviews for specific details, but my own
> prints blow the Canon and Epson away.
>
>
>>The epson plus was
>>the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
>>goes to the canon.
>
>
> I don't believe Canon or HP allow CD/DVD printing in north america due
> to silly intervention laws.
>
>
>>Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
>>one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
>>scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
>>SCSI scanjet!
>
>
> If you want an all in one unit, then all of the above is moot.
>

Why is that? IIRC the all-in-one epson I was looking at used the same
cartridges as the 300R and the output was identical as far as I could
see... But it may be moot as you say, my old scanjet still does the job
and for any serious picture scanning I use my Nikon ls2000 film
scanner..so I think an all-in-one is not in the running.

I have had the HP 7760 for a year and I like it just fine.

I've just refilled the #57 color cartridge for the first time so you
can see that i'm not a heavy user. Since I bought the refill kit
with extra ink, my printing ink costs should be less than a penny per
4x6 color photo. I printed out about 40 xmas cards and used less than
a 1/4 of an ink cartridge.

The memory card reader is nice and I use it about half the time and
the usb cable the other half.

I like the idea of a new print head with each new cartridge.
Especially when I can refill.

PJ






On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:52:57 GMT, Glen S <whoknows@no_spam.com> wrote:

>I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
>the following:
>
>must haves:
>excellent B&W printing
>excellent color printing
>good or better text printing
>half decent speed
>
>nice to haves:
>
>print to cd media
>2 sided printing
>on board printing controls
>direct media input (memory sticks etc..)
>
>I'm not all that hung up on the print from printer or read from cards
>etc... features as I will likely always use the PC, but it may be nice
>for my wife to use, ditto with the print to cd media - nice for cd gifts
>etc.. but is it worth the extra cost of the media?
>
>I spent the day looking at various outlets and have them narrowed down
>(sort of) to Epson 300, HP 7760 and Canon ip5000. Each has a feature I
>like, epson has the print to media (although I read today the canon does
>as well, but none of the salesmen mentioned it), HP has the photo-grey
>cartridge option (a big plus in my books), and canon has 2 sided
>printing and 9600 max res. Both sales people I talked to that seemed to
>have *some* knowledge said that the canon is probably the best output of
>all these three, and they both agreed that the refills were more
>economical than the others. The downside was the printhead may give
>grief if not used frequently. The plus for the HP was that printheads
>are built in, therefore always "new", but expensive, when I asked how
>much better the B&W output was I got blank stares. The epson plus was
>the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
>goes to the canon.
>
>I guess the deciding factor will be the cost of refills and the B&W
>output, as any reviews I have read online only cloud the issue more.
>
>Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
>one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
>scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
>SCSI scanjet!
>
>Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?
>
>TIA & cheers!

PJX wrote:
> I have had the HP 7760 for a year and I like it just fine.
>
> I've just refilled the #57 color cartridge for the first time so you
> can see that i'm not a heavy user. Since I bought the refill kit
> with extra ink, my printing ink costs should be less than a penny per
> 4x6 color photo. I printed out about 40 xmas cards and used less than
> a 1/4 of an ink cartridge.
>
> The memory card reader is nice and I use it about half the time and
> the usb cable the other half.
>
> I like the idea of a new print head with each new cartridge.
> Especially when I can refill.
>
> PJ
>
Is that HP or no name refill?

I am leaning towards the HP right now, mostly for the fact that it has
the photo grey option. But if the online boxing day sales are good
enough, perhaps I'll go for both the HP and the IP5000....


cheers!

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:33:24 GMT, Glen S <whoknows@no_spam.com> wrote:

>PJX wrote:
>> I have had the HP 7760 for a year and I like it just fine.
>>
>> I've just refilled the #57 color cartridge for the first time so you
>> can see that i'm not a heavy user. Since I bought the refill kit
>> with extra ink, my printing ink costs should be less than a penny per
>> 4x6 color photo. I printed out about 40 xmas cards and used less than
>> a 1/4 of an ink cartridge.
>>
>> The memory card reader is nice and I use it about half the time and
>> the usb cable the other half.
>>
>> I like the idea of a new print head with each new cartridge.
>> Especially when I can refill.
>>
>> PJ
>>
>Is that HP or no name refill?
>
>I am leaning towards the HP right now, mostly for the fact that it has
>the photo grey option. But if the online boxing day sales are good
>enough, perhaps I'll go for both the HP and the IP5000....
>
>
>cheers!

It came with a black and a color and I had to buy a photo color
cartridge photo black, light cyan and light magenta). The toolbox
showed my color was just about empty, but truth is it wasn't even
close to half empty. I could have printed twice the photos before it
ran dry. I just feel a cartridge should Never run dry.
I wish I was talented enough to need a photo grey cartridge, but I
doubt I'll ever print a black and white image on purpose.

Pj

> excellent B&W printing
> good or better text printing

This point alone = laser printer. You can buy a Samsung Laser on
sale for $99 USD, and use the other $99 to buy a nice 6-color photo
printer that meets the other requirements.

Unless you mean B&W photo printing, which you didn't specify. (In
which case, all of the current inkjets will do decent text prints.)

If that's the case, then you're stuck with the HP's w/optional gray
cartridge for decent B&W photo printing out of the box w/o color casts.
And maybe one or two Canon or Epson printers that have optional
gray/black cartridges for B&W printing.

But if you're really serious about B&W photo prints, then there's
only one -- B&W Piezography system at www.inkjetmall.com -- this is
serious B&W Photo printing and you'll get all the pluses you'd want --
long archival life, superior B&W prints, museum quality prints, etc.

Also see groups.yahoo.com for the Epson Inkjet mailing list for talk
on this system.


> excellent color printing
Any 6+ color photo inkjet printer made today will meet this - any
brand, Canon, HP, Epson.

> half decent speed

Canons are among the world's fastest in general when you pick their
top-of-the-line photo inkjets.

> 2 sided printing

Manual or auto? Very few have auto duplex: some HPs, some Canons.
Otherwise, any will let you do it if you manually flip the paper and
reinsert.

> I'm not all that hung up on the print from printer or read from cards
> etc... features as I will likely always use the PC, but it may be nice
> for my wife to use, ditto with the print to cd media - nice for cd gifts
> etc.. but is it worth the extra cost of the media?

Expect 4x6" prints to range about ~$0.50 per print on any 6+ color
inkjet today. Exceptions include nitch printers such as the Epson
PictureMate priced about $0.29 per 4x6" print.

As for CD-R inkjet printable media, that's not too expensive vs. more
costly labels (which have additional labor costs involved to peel &
stick). Do a price search and you'll find them.

for example, meritline.com has them at $25 / 100pk for very nice
Ritek discs (high quality)
http://meritline.com/ritek-cdr-52x-8...lank-disc.html

> economical than the others. The downside was the printhead may give
> grief if not used frequently. The plus for the HP was that printheads

See www.pcmag.com and www.pcworld.com for their yearly reliability
articles. You can see how reliable each brand is. Pretty much here,
I've run Epsons and Canons for =years= straight w/o any problems. Just
drop in a new cartridge, and off I go.

> much better the B&W output was I got blank stares. The epson plus was
> the printable media, but if the canon has that as well then the edge
> goes to the canon.

Here, if you're doing photo paper prints, keep in mind that the Epson
Letter sized Photo Glossy Paper (100pk ~$20@costco stores) and 4x6"
Premium Glossy (100pk ~$15 @ many places), remain the cheapest photo
papers available from the three main makers. Canon & HP papers cost
more, so you'll spend more. (also, you'll have to factor in ink costs)

> I guess the deciding factor will be the cost of refills and the B&W
> output, as any reviews I have read online only cloud the issue more.

www.inkjetmall.com -> CIS continuous bottle feed system.
If you're making thousands of inkjet prints, this =is= the way to go.
Much cheaper replacing a big bottle of ink rather than refills, and
far, far cheaper in the long run.

> Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
> one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
> scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
> SCSI scanjet!

These 6+ color all-in-one photo combos are an excellent choice if you
want to have multiple devices in one. They may not be the fastest out
there, but they do a very good job all around and continue to be popular
in Japan (where space is a premium). Quality will be equal to any other
non-all-in-one models they have, so you're not losing anything here --
and only requires one cable to the PC! (rather than multiple for
seperate scanner, printer, copier, fax, film scanner, etc.)

www.deja.com has thousands of posts on this and similar subject lines.

Glen S <whoknows@no_spam.com> wrotenews:tmFyd.13361$nN6.12064@edtnps84:

> I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
> the following:
>
> must haves:
> excellent B&W printing
> excellent color printing
> good or better text printing
> half decent speed

>
> Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
> one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
> scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
> SCSI scanjet!
>
> Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?
>
> TIA & cheers!
>

Epsons are horrible printers.

They screw you on carts. They put chips on the carts to make sure you
don't refill them and then they're inefficent with ink so you go through
them like crazy.

My feeling is they do this on purpose, being "seiko" just like those idiots
at Sony, the stupid japs think they can screw everyone on overpriced stuff
and try and do what HP does and make all their million simply on cart
sales.

Never buy an Epson.

Never buy a LExmark, they're complete **** printers. Always at the bottom
of every rating.

You're left with Canon and HP.

I don't like HP's cart prices and that you have to throw away the whole
cart even if only one color is gone. Although they're not real hard to
refil, the canon is easier to refill and uses seperate ink carts.

Canon makes a cd printing iP series printer, but it's not sold in USA but
in europe and other places. Check around.

I did a lot of research, having been an HP user for life, then I bought an
Epson and was constantly angry at the stupid printer for many many reasons.
I got so mad at it I threw it into the trash can and didn't even bother
trying to sell if for the $25 it was worth on the open market.

My reserch led me to the Canon and I bought the iP3000 for the bang for the
buck and haven't been more happier in a long time!

--
-- His Excellency, Mapanari
Bishop of the Austin Chapter of the
Flying Spaghetti Monster, Lord of all.

Mapanari wrote:

>Glen S <whoknows@no_spam.com> wrotenews:tmFyd.13361$nN6.12064@edtnps84:
>
>
>
>>I want to buy a decent quality photo printer for about C$200, and I want
>>the following:
>>
>>must haves:
>>excellent B&W printing
>>excellent color printing
>>good or better text printing
>>half decent speed
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Then to further compicate the matter of course I spot the epson "all in
>>one" on my way out, for about $265 with $50 rebate that prints *and*
>>scans a decent 4800 X 1200 and will let me retire my mammoth old HP 4C
>>SCSI scanjet!
>>
>>Any advice from those more knowledgeable than me on this NG?
>>
>>TIA & cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>
>Epsons are horrible printers.
>
>
NO REALLY BUT NOT THE BEST CHOICE

>They screw you on carts.
>
MORE THAN THE OTHERS

>They put chips on the carts to make sure you
>don't refill them
>
IN THEIR CASE THAT IS GOOD

> and then they're inefficent with ink so you go through
>them like crazy.
>
>My feeling is they do this on purpose, being "seiko" just like those idiots
>at Sony, the stupid japs think they can screw everyone on overpriced stuff
>and try and do what HP does and make all their million simply on cart
>sales.
>
>Never buy an Epson.
>
>Never buy a *LExmark*, they're complete ***** *printers. Always at the bottom
>of every rating.
>
>You're left with Canon and HP.
>
>I don't like HP's cart prices and that you have to throw away the whole
>cart even if only one color is gone.
>
NOT IN ALL MODELS. BUT YOU DO HAVE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS WITH
HEAD CLOGS.

> Although they're not real hard to
>refil, the canon is easier to refill
>
WHO CARES

> and uses seperate ink carts.
>
>Canon makes a cd printing iP series printer, but it's not sold in USA but
>in europe and other places. Check around.
>
>I did a lot of research, having been an HP user for life, then I bought an
>Epson and was constantly angry at the stupid printer for many many reasons.
>I got so mad at it I threw it into the trash can and didn't even bother
>trying to sell if for the $25 it was worth on the open market.
>
>My reserch led me to the Canon and I bought the iP3000 for the bang for the
>buck and haven't been more happier in a long time!
>
>
THE IP4000 WOULD HAVE BEEN A MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT CHOICE