I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of note
getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being polite.
Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:

- Definitions don't update after installing
- Installer doesn't come with new defs
- Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
saying its gone
- I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly why
- I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same level
of notifications I used to
- I can't find things or they don't exist any more
- I want the ActiveX browser back
- I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back

For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can help me
do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That is,
at least until the time bomb expires.

Interspersed:
--

"Jeff" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:7F4B0026-3315-4EA5-A875-(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
> because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of note
> getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
> machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being
> polite.
> Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
> these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:

Microsoft does read these messages

>
> - Definitions don't update after installing

The initial update after install has worked on every single machine I've
ever installed beta2 on--at least 50. Thereafter, experience varies, but
the vast majority update regularly with no interaction required.

> - Installer doesn't come with new defs
> - Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
> saying its gone

A future version will enable you to choose to maintain a tray icon.

> - I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly
> why
> - I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same
> level
> of notifications I used to
> - I can't find things or they don't exist any more
> - I want the ActiveX browser back
> - I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back

Look at the feature set in IE7 for the last couple of items, I think.

>
> For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
> but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can help
> me
> do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That
> is,
> at least until the time bomb expires.

Inline to expand on this.

--
-steve

Steve Dodson [MSFT]
Windows Defender Beta Lead
MCSE, CISSP
http://blogs.technet.com/stevedod
--

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at
http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm

Note: For the benefit of the community-at-large, all responses to this
message are best directed to the newsgroup/thread from which they
originated.
"Bill Sanderson MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Interspersed:
> --
>
> "Jeff" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:7F4B0026-3315-4EA5-A875-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
>> because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of
>> note
>> getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
>> machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being
>> polite.
>> Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
>> these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:
>
> Microsoft does read these messages
[sd] Yes, we do read these
>
>>
>> - Definitions don't update after installing
>
> The initial update after install has worked on every single machine I've
> ever installed beta2 on--at least 50. Thereafter, experience varies, but
> the vast majority update regularly with no interaction required.
[sd] make sure you can download updates from www.windowsupdate.com. If you
cannot download updates here, you will not be able to install signature
updates. The reason we are using WU is because Microsoft has already
invested the money in a very robust and resilient software updating system
with windows update. We chose to use a technology which is already tested
and used by many millions of users instead of building a brand new system
which would need to be maintained.
>
>> - Installer doesn't come with new defs
[sd] We want to make sure that users download updates at installation. Users
who never download updates may get a false sense of security when the first
download and run the application if they were to download signatures which
were a few weeks old.

>> - Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
>> saying its gone
>
> A future version will enable you to choose to maintain a tray icon.
[sd] this version was released today. Users can add the icon back
>
>> - I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly
>> why
[sd] If you can think of something, please let me know.

>> - I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same
>> level
>> of notifications I used to
>> - I can't find things or they don't exist any more
>> - I want the ActiveX browser back
>> - I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back
>
> Look at the feature set in IE7 for the last couple of items, I think.
[sd] Many security features are being built into IE7. If that feature is
included in IE7, then we will not be including it in our application.
>
>>
>> For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
>> but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can
>> help me
>> do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That
>> is,
>> at least until the time bomb expires.

Please let me know if there is anything specific which makes you feel this
way. Many users complained that beta 1 was too noisy, so we took out
notifications by default. You can re-add these notifications in tools ->
options.
>
>

That is correct. I understand that Beta 2 is a shift, but I assure you the
protection is at least the same, if not better.

WD stays in memory, even when the system tray icon is not showing (it is a
service now) 1347 (just released today) will allow you to display the system
tray icon even if there are no pending actions.

Regarding your signature updates - WD uses AU, so if your AU is not working,
you will not get updates. Go to http://updates.microsoft.com/microsoftupdate
or windowsupdate to ensure that everything works.

If you have a WSUS, you have to approve the WD signatures.

The other things you mention around ActiveX browsing and browser setting
reset are indeed in IE7 now.

--
Mike Chan [MSFT]
Technical Product Manager (Windows Defender)
Microsoft Corporation

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--
"Bill Sanderson MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Interspersed:
> --
>
> "Jeff" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:7F4B0026-3315-4EA5-A875-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
>> because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of
>> note
>> getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
>> machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being
>> polite.
>> Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
>> these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:
>
> Microsoft does read these messages
>
>>
>> - Definitions don't update after installing
>
> The initial update after install has worked on every single machine I've
> ever installed beta2 on--at least 50. Thereafter, experience varies, but
> the vast majority update regularly with no interaction required.
>
>> - Installer doesn't come with new defs
>> - Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
>> saying its gone
>
> A future version will enable you to choose to maintain a tray icon.
>
>> - I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly
>> why
>> - I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same
>> level
>> of notifications I used to
>> - I can't find things or they don't exist any more
>> - I want the ActiveX browser back
>> - I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back
>
> Look at the feature set in IE7 for the last couple of items, I think.
>
>>
>> For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
>> but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can
>> help me
>> do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That
>> is,
>> at least until the time bomb expires.
>
>

Jeff ...

Precisely correct! Defender is amateurish and provides no useful info,
compared to the original. The original was far better. What could Microsoft
possibly be thinking? And, how do I get the original back?

"Jeff" wrote:

> I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
> because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of note
> getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
> machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being polite.
> Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
> these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:
>
> - Definitions don't update after installing
> - Installer doesn't come with new defs
> - Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
> saying its gone
> - I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly why
> - I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same level
> of notifications I used to
> - I can't find things or they don't exist any more
> - I want the ActiveX browser back
> - I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back
>
> For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
> but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can help me
> do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That is,
> at least until the time bomb expires.

Whilst I can follow the logic of the replies, to most qustions answered I'm
completly lost with the reason for switching to WU argument !
Beta 1 didn't use WU and fonctioned perfectly thus its evident MS had a
system up and running !
Until as I understand it with Vista, a system incorporating AU that
requires no restart of the computer ! The AU fonction for most xp users is a
pain !
The vast majority of indivduals don't leave thier computers on 24 hrs a day
nor does all the population have any access to cable or broadband.
Those users tend for the most part prefer notification so they can choose
the time its convenient !
WD may well be an advancement ! but trying to incorporate it into xp's AU is
time consuming and not practical ! as an add on Beta 1 was a success !
Installed and almost able to forget its presence if you wished !
I have the impression that in truth we are simply testing defender for vista
! not as a improvement for XP ! If customer satisfaction is the goal then MS
are backing a loser on this for xp users !
Assuming you get it fonctioning with AU its for certain the large proportion
of MS users will not have AU switched on ! and soon ignore the signature
alerts because they are to frequent !

"Steve Dodson [MSFT]" wrote:

> Inline to expand on this.
>
> --
> -steve
>
> Steve Dodson [MSFT]
> Windows Defender Beta Lead
> MCSE, CISSP
> http://blogs.technet.com/stevedod
> --
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
> Use of included script samples are subject to the terms specified at
> http://www.microsoft.com/info/cpyright.htm
>
> Note: For the benefit of the community-at-large, all responses to this
> message are best directed to the newsgroup/thread from which they
> originated.
> "Bill Sanderson MVP" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Interspersed:
> > --
> >
> > "Jeff" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:7F4B0026-3315-4EA5-A875-(E-Mail Removed)...
> >>I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
> >> because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of
> >> note
> >> getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
> >> machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being
> >> polite.
> >> Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
> >> these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:
> >
> > Microsoft does read these messages
> [sd] Yes, we do read these
> >
> >>
> >> - Definitions don't update after installing
> >
> > The initial update after install has worked on every single machine I've
> > ever installed beta2 on--at least 50. Thereafter, experience varies, but
> > the vast majority update regularly with no interaction required.
> [sd] make sure you can download updates from www.windowsupdate.com. If you
> cannot download updates here, you will not be able to install signature
> updates. The reason we are using WU is because Microsoft has already
> invested the money in a very robust and resilient software updating system
> with windows update. We chose to use a technology which is already tested
> and used by many millions of users instead of building a brand new system
> which would need to be maintained.
> >
> >> - Installer doesn't come with new defs
> [sd] We want to make sure that users download updates at installation. Users
> who never download updates may get a false sense of security when the first
> download and run the application if they were to download signatures which
> were a few weeks old.
>
> >> - Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
> >> saying its gone
> >
> > A future version will enable you to choose to maintain a tray icon.
> [sd] this version was released today. Users can add the icon back
> >
> >> - I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly
> >> why
> [sd] If you can think of something, please let me know.
>
> >> - I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same
> >> level
> >> of notifications I used to
> >> - I can't find things or they don't exist any more
> >> - I want the ActiveX browser back
> >> - I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back
> >
> > Look at the feature set in IE7 for the last couple of items, I think.
> [sd] Many security features are being built into IE7. If that feature is
> included in IE7, then we will not be including it in our application.
> >
> >>
> >> For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
> >> but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can
> >> help me
> >> do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That
> >> is,
> >> at least until the time bomb expires.
>
> Please let me know if there is anything specific which makes you feel this
> way. Many users complained that beta 1 was too noisy, so we took out
> notifications by default. You can re-add these notifications in tools ->
> options.
> >
> >
>
>
>

H BFM,

> possibly be thinking? And, how do I get the original back?
From http://www.filehippo.com Beta 1
http://www.filehippo.com/download/88...5a33/download/

I think it is pretty risky getting a Microsoft file except directly from the
source--but in an emergency....
--

"BFM" wrote:

> Jeff ...
>
> Precisely correct! Defender is amateurish and provides no useful info,
> compared to the original. The original was far better. What could Microsoft
> possibly be thinking? And, how do I get the original back?
>
> "Jeff" wrote:
>
> > I have to admit I completely lost touch with the Antispyware world simply
> > because Beta 1 was working nicely for me (with the noted exception of note
> > getting the Beta 2 notification). I've tried Beta 2 now on over 10 of the
> > machines I had been running Beta 1 on. Beta 2 stinks and that's being polite.
> > Sorry but I need to vent. Hopefully someone from Microsoft actually reads
> > these things. Here's my biggest beefs so far with Beta 2:
> >
> > - Definitions don't update after installing
> > - Installer doesn't come with new defs
> > - Beta 2 will exit out completely (from sys tray and memory) without even
> > saying its gone
> > - I liked the old interface better but I can't put my finger on exactly why
> > - I've enabled all the notifications I can but I still don't the same level
> > of notifications I used to
> > - I can't find things or they don't exist any more
> > - I want the ActiveX browser back
> > - I want the abilitiy to lock my browser settings back
> >
> > For what its worth, I used Beta 1 not for its ability to clean up spyware
> > but for its ability to prevent it. I'm no longer convinced Beta 2 can help me
> > do that. Acutally, I'm uninstalling this and going back to Beta 1. That is,
> > at least until the time bomb expires.